News Workhorse (Priddis) Improves Efficiency

[The Falcon Strike]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

I mean TFS is arguing that he was good because he had more goal assists them anyone else. He played almost the entire game as our main offensive mid through the middle and he had 32 touches ... he has to do something .. but we were completely and utterly flogged in his position ... surely that has to be of some concern?

No i argued that he was probably our best midfielder - if you read my votes i said our midfield was flogged.

You still going with the main offensive weapon argument?

I mean - Thomas played largely midfield didn't he? I don't see stoppages set up around him - amazing that he still managed to have an impact.

 

[sTeeL]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

Stop moving my posts.

 

[sTeeL]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

He played almost the entire game as our main offensive mid through the middle and he had 32 touches ... he has to do something .. but we were completely and utterly flogged in his position ... surely that has to be of some concern?

No. Its a team game. 1 great midfielder and countless shithouse supporting mids means he had no hope of getting our team anywhere. Surely you can see that

 

[Rids]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

My "bagging" of Priddis is in direct proportion to the level of unwarranted adulation he receives. We still have blokes on here talking of him in terms of superstar mids.... he was ok on the weekend, worked very hard, got his head over the ball and did ok. But when he did have his "dominant" period we got little value for it because of his inability to do much.

It's funny you say this - I only get involved in these discussions because of the level of unwarranted (in my opinion) bagging he receives on this site.

I just can't get my head around why the guy who is consistently the best of a bad bunch (well best of a good bunch this year ... but this has been going on a few years) gets more critisicm than those who have been ordinary contributors more often than not.

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

It's funny you say this - I only get involved in these discussions because of the level of unwarranted (in my opinion) bagging he receives on this site.

This.

Same goes for me.

 

[Eagle87]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

It's funny you say this - I only get involved in these discussions because of the level of unwarranted (in my opinion) bagging he receives on this site.

I just can't get my head around why the guy who is consistently the best of a bad bunch (well best of a good bunch this year ... but this has been going on a few years) gets more critisicm than those who have been ordinary contributors more often than not.

He gets the prime role in our side. The stoppages are set up with him as a primary option. He plays more minutes in the critical inside position. He is rising 27. He is an established player who is likely to be right around his peak right now.

Our team was flogged in the midfield. Their mids ran off him all day into goal scoring positions. He hacked the ball inside our F50 more than most and the majority of times it set up Thomas or Davis for a R50. His hacked kicks forward played right into the hands of a team that set up to run the ball from their half back line. You may have noticed with Thomas that he basically ran towards CHB at most centre bounces and often benefitted for our hacked first possession.

He was less effective than Kerr but got way more minutes in the middle. He also was likely our main uncontested possession guy and barely set up anything.

I have no problem acknowledging him as a hard worker, a guy who achieves a lot for his limited talent but its when that is confused with him being really good that something needs to be mentioned. He isn't very good in key areas, like ball use and decision making - given he rarely tries to create anything (unlike say Kerr) DE should be really high but it isn't and every kick he has is still an adventure in uncertainty. People occasionally compare him to a Watson on here and I want them to imagine what Watson would do with a 13 possession quarter of "dominance"? You reckon Essendon might do better than 1 goal in that quarter?

Its a question of performance v role. He is a hard working role player masquerading as a "gun" midfielder. Its like heaping praise on Michael Braun if Braun was number 1 mid. And if he'd been a few years younger he might have been over the last few seasons....

Clubs have moved on stalwarts and players who were first 22 every week because they are building for the future and because they players are denying opportunity to more talented but less ready and less developed kids.

Priddis is a MacManus, a latter era Carr and Hasleby, certainly a Vandenburg .... good enough players, a couple of club captains but guys who can keep you in games, not win you flags given the significance of their roles....

He was our most significant mid on Sunday, and we were slaughtered because of poor decision making and poor skill execution when taking the ball forward. We were also killed on the rebound by the Pies forward surging and goal kicking mids .... all areas in which Priddis has issues ...

But yes, lets blame others, I mean he got in 32 times and he was hard at the ball all day...

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

Our team was flogged in the midfield. Their mids ran off him all day into goal scoring positions. He hacked the ball inside our F50 more than most

No they ran off every midfielder - not just priddis.

He didn't hack inside 50m more than anyone else - that was Embley - Priddis had the same amount as Kerr. Priddis was also more successful in creating scoring opportunities than those other two.

Are you just making this stuff up for shits and giggles now?

He was less effective than Kerr but got way more minutes in the middle.

Nah he wasn't - not in that game

But yes, lets blame others,

Nah let's ignore everyone elses sub-par performances and attack one bloke.

In case you hadn't noticed - the whole midfield was spanked - not just Priddis.

Whether Priddis is the answer in the short, medium or long term is a vastly different argument to how he performs in an individual match.

You've made comments regularly which make sense that if Priddis is our best midfielder we aren't going to win a flag - that I agree with - he's no world beater that's for sure. But that doesn't mean he can't play good or great games, that doesn't mean he can't be our best midfielder on any given day, it doesn't mean he can't be effective on any given day.

They are the factors I would have thought one would decide the 5 to 1 votes - not on the overall list management decisions. I would have thought that the coaches giving him votes in 4 or 5 games would be fairly telling stat in how they rate his performances on an individual day.

I appreciate you rate yourself - but surely there must be some acceptance that AFL coaches know a little bit about what they are doing and what affects a game of footy.

 

[Eagle87]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

No they ran off every midfielder - not just priddis.

He didn't hack inside 50m more than anyone else - that was Embley - Priddis had the same amount as Kerr. Priddis was also more successful in creating scoring opportunities than those other two.

Are you just making this stuff up for shits and giggles now?

Did you watch the game or you just eating statistics for breakfast?

If you reckon Priddis set up more play going forward than Kerr then you are barking mad. A simple 15m pass to a bloke standing alone created by 2 other blokes up the ground using actual creative handball makes Priddis stats look fine - its bollocks though. You want to refer to my discussion last week about the genuine comedy inherent in Priddis' Champion Data scores?

Kerr, from limited time, was more creative/effective than Priddis because he takes people on, can evade tacklers and release people. He is also far less terrifying (for Eagles fans) with ball in hand in space.

Priddis always looks ok statistically. I mean shit he compares favourably with Judd. You want to go there too?

As for being run off, i hope you aren't serious? He is abject in that department and always has been. Sure he is no orphan, but the other mids aren't getting talked up like they are the second coming....

Nah let's ignore everyone elses sub-par performances and attack one bloke.

Again, see above re the second coming ....

In case you hadn't noticed - the whole midfield was spanked - not just Priddis.

And again....

Sure, I could write that the 20 yo Shuey wasn't great. He didn't get 5 votes from people and comments like "It was his best game of the season" - Priddis did.

I'm not sure you are aware of the notion of context, but perhaps look it up.

Suggesting Priddis was average and then adding that his weakness' were again on display and exposed seems reasonable. Its apparently bagging because, in a discussion about Priddis, I didn't mention, say, Masten?

Ok, sure ..

EDIT (in light of your edit)

Whether Priddis is the answer in the short, medium or long term is a vastly different argument to how he performs in an individual match.

Its my primary point.

His individual game performances just illustrate why he isnt the answer.

You've made comments regularly which make sense that if Priddis is our best midfielder we aren't going to win a flag - that I agree with - he's no world beater that's for sure. But that doesn't mean he can't play good or great games, that doesn't mean he can't be our best midfielder on any given day, it doesn't mean he can't be effective on any given day.

Well no, I agree, on days where we are slaughtered every which way his work rate and attack on the ball might stand out. To no positive effect but hey ...

They are the factors I would have thought one would decide the 5 to 1 votes - not on the overall list management decisions. I would have thought that the coaches giving him votes in 4 or 5 games would be fairly telling stat in how they rate his performances on an individual day.

Well he has got votes in 5 games. In 3 of those games his total votes are 4. So he has really had 2 highly rated games and a few sundry votes. Still a fair effort but not great given what a player in his role should be achieving.

I would have had him in the votes in 2 games at most.

I appreciate you rate yourself - but surely there must be some acceptance that AFL coaches know a little bit about what they are doing and what affects a game of footy.

No doubt. And? You reckon they are always right with their votes particularly past the best couple? I mean was Harry O'Brien second best on ground or a non vote getter on Sunday (he got 4 from 1 and none from the other), he certainly had a much bigger influence on the game than Priddis.... its subjective and not their key role (the coaches) .... Where is Priddis in the award by the way?

He is just a good ordinary player at best... on the weekend he was just ok .. and gets the royal treatment from heaps of posters - its just weird.

 

[sTeeL]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

Priddis has had his best game of the season multiple times this year so I will take that as a good sign he is having a high standard and keeping it there.

Shuey, Kerr, S Selwood, Masten, Ebert and even Le Cras all had minimal impact on the game. Whats your opinion in this case then? Replace Priddis with Stevens/Swift and all of a sudden we get closer than 50 points to Collingwood? Certainly those two are more classy than Priddis but neither of those would have helped in the slightest.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

Did you watch the game or you just eating statistics for breakfast?

I watched the game - but saying someone had more inside 50's is like saying someone kicked more goals - the stats are reasonably straight forward. Is saying Kennedy kicked more goals than Lynch eating stats?

If you reckon Priddis set up more play going forward than Kerr then you are barking mad. A simple 15m pass to a bloke standing alone created by 2 other blokes up the ground using actual creative handball makes Priddis stats look fine - its bollocks though. You want to refer to my discussion last week about the genuine comedy inherent in Priddis' Champion Data scores?

Last weekend? yup

The weekend before? nope

the derby - yup

essendon - nope

Kerr, from limited time, was more creative/effective than Priddis because he takes people on, can evade tacklers and release people. He is also far less terrifying (for Eagles fans) with ball in hand in space.

Nah he wasn't - as a rule Kerr's considerably better than Priddis - this year fighting back from injury - he's not - he's building towards that again though, something i didn't expect

Priddis always looks ok statistically. I mean shit he compares favourably with Judd. You want to go there too?

Well i will when he plays Judd - and if you say Judd kicked more goals or had more inside 50's than him - and the stats say it is wrong - i'll correct you.

As for being run off, i hope you aren't serious? He is abject in that department and always has been. Sure he is no orphan, but the other mids aren't getting talked up like they are the second coming....

Cough *Luke Shuey* cough.
Cough *Daniel Kerr* cough

Again, see above re the second coming ....

Well here's the thing - arguing one irrational point with another irrational post doesn't help. It's like Karl Marx arguing with Gordon Gecko. I've never said he's the second coming - i've been fairly balanced with my view.

In fact I'm still waiting for you to give me my opinion on how i rate him against Sam Mitchell.

And again....

Sure, I could write that the 20 yo Shuey wasn't great. He didn't get 5 votes from people and comments like "It was his best game of the season" - Priddis did.

I'm not sure you are aware of the notion of context, but perhaps look it up.

Amazing that the context is identical every week isn't it?

Suggesting Priddis was average and then adding that his weakness' were again on display and exposed seems reasonable. Its apparently bagging because, in a discussion about Priddis, I didn't mention, say, Masten?
Ok, sure ..

Well i don't see you adding in your votes for the weekend for critique - just attacking those who do.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

Well he has got votes in 5 games. In 3 of those games his total votes are 4. So he has really had 2 highly rated games and a few sundry votes. Still a fair effort but not great given what a player in his role should be achieving.

Better than say Luke Ball?

No doubt. And? You reckon they are always right with their votes particularly past the best couple? I mean was Harry O'Brien second best on ground or a non vote getter on Sunday (he got 4 from 1 and none from the other), he certainly had a much bigger influence on the game than Priddis.... its subjective and not their key role (the coaches) .... Where is Priddis in the award by the way?

In a subjective world - I reckon they get it more right than any other judges.

He is just a good ordinary player at best... on the weekend he was just ok .. and gets the royal treatment from heaps of posters - its just weird.

Unfortunately for us - just OK was close to our best on the weekend. For mine I gave it to Will Schofield - a bloke I don't rate - but i thought he was just about the only bloke who beat his opponent on the day.

 

[The Dodger]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

It's funny you say this - I only get involved in these discussions because of the level of unwarranted (in my opinion) bagging he receives on this site.

I just can't get my head around why the guy who is consistently the best of a bad bunch (well best of a good bunch this year ... but this has been going on a few years) gets more critisicm than those who have been ordinary contributors more often than not.

This.

Same goes for me.

The argument is not that he is crap, the argument is that he is not good enough for the minutes he plays, in the position he plays, in the role he plays to take us forward to the next flag tilt.
Do we;
A - keep playing him because there is no one on our list currently that is as good as him in that position, or
B - throw the gauntlet to say Stevens and see what he can do?

Thats it, he works hard gets the best out of himself, but is limited. The difference between his best and his worst is not much which is the sign of a mature consistent footballer. Is he good enough to take us forward, or are we treading water?

 

[The Dodger]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

Better than say Luke Ball?



In a subjective world - I reckon they get it more right than any other judges.



Unfortunately for us - just OK was close to our best on the weekend. For mine I gave it to Will Schofield - a bloke I don't rate - but i thought he was just about the only bloke who beat his opponent on the day.

I reckon you're right thats why they have him no where near the best mids from other teams

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

I reckon you're right thats why they have him no where near the best mids from other teams

That's probably because he's nowhere near as good as the best mids in the comp.

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

The argument is not that he is crap, the argument is that he is not good enough for the minutes he plays, in the position he plays, in the role he plays to take us forward to the next flag tilt.

Sorry dude, I remember very well why I entered into the debate and it was because people were knocking his game against the pies when I thought he played well.

Maybe the overall thread is about what you've got going on, but I'm not touching that shit.

 

[GO EAGLES]

PRIDDIS is one of the best player in the comp.
In the top 20 easily.

What I read sometimes in this thread is crap crap crap crap crap crap.

Priddis had the physical strength to stand up to the physical onslaught against Collingwood more than any other player.

There was one passage of play where he dummied maybe 4 times in a row.
And the opposition just fell for it.
He is faster than last year and covers heaps more ground.

Priddis creates energy going forward using his bulldozer approach.

Its great watching him in close bump someone over with tenacity and then give a slick handpass out.
This often happens when he dives in and gets the ball 95% of the competition would not have the strength to get in the first place

 

[Rids]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

The argument is not that he is crap, the argument is that he is not good enough for the minutes he plays, in the position he plays, in the role he plays to take us forward to the next flag tilt.
Do we;
A - keep playing him because there is no one on our list currently that is as good as him in that position, or
B - throw the gauntlet to say Stevens and see what he can do?

Thats it, he works hard gets the best out of himself, but is limited. The difference between his best and his worst is not much which is the sign of a mature consistent footballer. Is he good enough to take us forward, or are we treading water?

I hope you're not falling for E87's "primary offensive mid" crap.

We do not set up every clearance play just for Priddis to get a touch. And even if we did, how often does that really work? How often does a ruckman get a hit-out straight down the throat of a midfielder with sufficient time to dispose? Probably 4 or 5 times a game I would say. If a ruckman gets 10 hit-outs to advantage that is an absolutely exceptional game. It should also be noted that in that situation - it is the ruckman that gets credited with the clearance so you can forget this situation when people talk about Priddis' clearance stats. In the majority of situations there is a significant number of players going in for a ball in dispute and in that circumstance Priddis is very good - in fact, better than anyone else in our team. As a final proof - look at the Freo game - we couldn't set up our clearances for Priddis because we were getting smashed at the hit-outs ... but who picked up more contested possessions and won more clearances than any other player on the ground (from either side) - M.Priddis.

I cannot stress enough that Priddis playing where he plays does not prevent our other midfielders from wielding an influence. Marc Murphy has become a great player with Judd "the primary offensive mid"; Joel Selwood has done the same when Ablett was "the primary offensive mid" at Geelong, Scott Pendlebury goes alright given Dane Swan is "the primary offensive mid" at the Pies. Do you see how ridiculous the argument that he being our No.1 mid hurts our midfielders development is? In fact, I would go as far as saying that there is no such position as "primary offensive mid" ... dare I suggest that this was a made-up position just to suit an argument? The Doggies game is a perfect example - Priddis played just as many minutes and was in the centre square just as many times as he always is ... yet it perhaps looked like Shuey or Kerr were our prime offensive mids. Why? Because they stood up and had a great game - a better one than Priddis. Sadly, this does not happen often enough and the reason Priddis is considered our "primary offensive mid" is simply because he more consistently performs then our other midfield options ... not because of some WCE conspiracy to set up all our plays around padding Priddis' stats.


If anything Priddis brings other midfielders into the game - he is not just the Eagles best contested player, he has the most contested possessions in the AFL. That means that in a 50/50 situation, a vital situation where winning possession of the ball not only sets up attacking opportunities but sometimes just as crucially prevents the other team from attacking, we have a guy on our side that is better than anyone else in the AFL ... and you suggest ditching him for an unproven youngster??!!

Whether we get any meaningful ball movement from winning a contested possession is obviously dependent on disposal efficiency and with Priddis having a disposal efficiency of just 67% (below AFL average) this is certainly a limitation of his. However the fact he wins such a high proportion of his possessions in a contested situation does limit his disposal efficiency. For instance - Boyd, Judd, Swan, Kennedy (Swans) and Pavlich who are 2nd to 6th in contested possessions all have worse disposal efficiency than Priddis. I will accept that disposal efficiency is weighted towards Priddis because he handballs more than the others and I dare say (although haven't looked at the stats) that Priddis' kicking efficiency would be poorer than that group. In saying that it still means Priddis is winning a contested ball, getting a handball out to a team-mate who is in a position to get a clean possession away in about 2/3rds of his contested possessions (of which he wins more than anyone else in the AFL) ... and again, you suggest dropping him for a kid who has proven nothing??!!

Priddis has his limitations - of that, there is no doubt. For this reason - he isn't, and more than likely never will be, spoken about like a Judd, Ablett or the like. However, it is not his fault that he is currently our best midfielder - and he is most certainly not the problem with our midfield group. I will bet my bottom dollar that sometime over the next year or two, and with Priddis not changing his role one iota, Shuey will be considered our best midfielder. And when he does Priddis will still be doing what he is doing now - it's just there will be someone more damaging in there as well that will be considered a better player. And when Shuey is considered our number 1 midfielder - guess what, it will just mean Priddis is thought of as our 2nd best midfielder. Maybe Kerr will return to his best as well? Great! So now Priddis will be thought of as our 3rd best midfielder. The important point here is that it is not Priddis that will be dropping out to accommodate these guys - it is just that others are standing up to be considered better players than Priddis. And I tell you what if we ever get to a situation where Priddis is playing like he is now and is considered, say, our 4th best midfielder, we will be celebrating flag success.

Sorry for those who don't like stats, I know I used a lot of them in the above discussion. I know full well they can be misleading if used out of context, however I don't believe they have been in this circumstance and thus I feel justified in using them to support my argument. In any case, I certainly feel they provide a better justification then a made-up midfielders position.

 

[bodazoka]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

Have not missed much I see....

 

[WCE_phil]

Personally regarding priddis i compare him and rate him similarly to both sam mitchell and brad sewell. Personally think his class and quality level is ahead of sewell and just behind mitchell. His effectiveness this year however may well be higher than both of them. Of similar players i think he's better than cross at the dogs as well.

 

[no1bankteller]

I feel you're just being silly now and trying to wind up certain posters?

Maybe it's time I just close the thread?

If you want to close the thread do it. You have the power to do so. The argument will just start again and if people wish to waste their time doing circle work its their perogative.

Also if you going to single out one poster because you "feel like he is being silly" perhaps you need to expand your area of focus and indentify other posters who are "also being silly".

 

[Masto]

PRIDDIS is one of the best player in the comp.
In the top 20 easily.

What I read sometimes in this thread is crap crap crap crap crap crap.

Priddis had the physical strength to stand up to the physical onslaught against Collingwood more than any other player.

There was one passage of play where he dummied maybe 4 times in a row.
And the opposition just fell for it.
He is faster than last year and covers heaps more ground.

Priddis creates energy going forward using his bulldozer approach.

Its great watching him in close bump someone over with tenacity and then give a slick handpass out.
This often happens when he dives in and gets the ball 95% of the competition would not have the strength to get in the first place

His hair is too long. I'm serious. If he cuts his hair he might be able to see our players further up the field, which might stop him hacking it forward.

 

[The Dodger]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

That's probably because he's nowhere near as good as the best mids in the comp.

I didn't say best mids in comp, I was referring to the equivalent from other teams. Scott Thompson & Brent Moloney types.

Plays the same roles as those guys is having a good year by all reports, in a team that is middle of the road. Using those coaches votes people keep bringing up means that he has had 1 Bog, a 1 voter game and a 4 votes game IIRC. So our mid that spends the most time in the middle, who gets the most clearances, leading possession winner has polled in 3 games out of 9. We have won 5 games. Just saying that the coaches votes don't say much.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

I didn't say best mids in comp, I was referring to the equivalent from other teams. Scott Thompson & Brent Moloney types.

Plays the same roles as those guys is having a good year by all reports, in a team that is middle of the road. Using those coaches votes people keep bringing up means that he has had 1 Bog, a 1 voter game and a 4 votes game IIRC. So our mid that spends the most time in the middle, who gets the most clearances, leading possession winner has polled in 3 games out of 9. We have won 5 games. Just saying that the coaches votes don't say much.

He equates well to equivalent types in luke ball and sam mitchell

Also priddis has polled in 5 games out of 9 - haven't done the numbers but that would be at the higher any for any player in the comp

I would have thought the coaches votes would say a fair amount as to who were around the 6 or 7 more influential people on the ground in any given game

 

[The Dodger]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

He equates well to equivalent types in luke ball and sam mitchell

Also priddis has polled in 5 games out of 9 - haven't done the numbers but that would be at the higher any for any player in the comp

I would have thought the coaches votes would say a fair amount as to who were around the 6 or 7 more influential people on the ground in any given game

Looked at the votes, it's in 4 of the matches.
10 v Melb
9 v Freo
2 v Coll
1 v Haw

Sydney game is a prime example of the voting system, was a close game lots of players polled from either side, once again he was our leading possession winner, lots of his usual stats did not get 1 vote. A player getting those stats and being determined by the coaches to not have an impact on the ground is either an indictment on the coaches or Priddis.

I mean Sam Mitchell & Luke Ball are having IMO ho hum seasons. However I feel Priddis has improved slightly and we are getting the best of him.

 

[Trouto]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

It's funny you say this - I only get involved in these discussions because of the level of unwarranted (in my opinion) bagging he receives on this site.

I just can't get my head around why the guy who is consistently the best of a bad bunch (well best of a good bunch this year ... but this has been going on a few years) gets more critisicm than those who have been ordinary contributors more often than not.

It's obvious isn't it? it's cos he got curly hair! There can be no logical reason that people on BF are saying he had an average came and had no hurt at all while the rest of our midfield did squat (surprising, i know, the midfield consists of more than 1 player).

Oh, and i thought it was a good effort to be put in the Herald Sun's "Team of the Week" considering we got flogged and we are a WA team...even Vic commentators see he is a valuable asset to any team.