News Workhorse (Priddis) Improves Efficiency

[The Falcon Strike]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

Looked at the votes, it's in 4 of the matches.
10 v Melb
9 v Freo
2 v Coll
1 v Haw

Sydney game is a prime example of the voting system, was a close game lots of players polled from either side, once again he was our leading possession winner, lots of his usual stats did not get 1 vote. A player getting those stats and being determined by the coaches to not have an impact on the ground is either an indictment on the coaches or Priddis.

I mean Sam Mitchell & Luke Ball are having IMO ho hum seasons. However I feel Priddis has improved slightly and we are getting the best of him.

Why is it an idictment? He just wasn't in the top half dozen players - fairly simple I would have thought. It's not necessrily those stats didn't have an effect (I actually don't know i didn't see the game) - it's just that those stats didn't affect the outcome as much as some others.

Let's for example assume he was ineffective overall - not negative - just neutral - how is having 25+ possessions and being neutral any worse than having 15 possessions and being neutral?

Brent Moloney had 15 possessions on Friday night - he didn't get votes - so is that mysteriously better than Priddis getting 25 touches against Sydney?

 

[WCErevival]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

It's obvious isn't it? it's cos he got curly hair! There can be no logical reason that people on BF are saying he had an average came and had no hurt at all while the rest of our midfield did squat (surprising, i know, the midfield consists of more than 1 player).

Oh, and i thought it was a good effort to be put in the Herald Sun's "Team of the Week" considering we got flogged and we are a WA team...even Vic commentators see he is a valuable asset to any team.

Should we start a petition to get Priddis to shave his head? Instant respect.

 

[WCE_phil]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

Should we start a petition to get Priddis to shave his head? Instant respect.

Seriously he can do it and probably raise 10k for charity in doing so, needs to get it done as his hair is ridiculous. Thank goodness pendlebury cut his hair.

Speaking of funny hair my ex was out and about with the kids the other day at a park with a grass tree. My 2 and a half year old son ran up to a dying grass tree, hugged it and yelled nic naitanui!

 

[Belltower]

I haven't weighed into the debate before but here is my take on Priddis.

He is elite at contested ball a good clearance player and tackler. He is limited in speed and kicking ability.

In 2007 when he was unknown and the 3rd or 4th banana he was a revelation, with the loss of Cousins, Judd and kerr he was forced into being our #1 midfielder for 2008-2010, attracting the top tagger from the opposition. He has excelled in this role and it is no fault of his that we have ben poor in the last few years.

He handballs more than he kicks and in most cases tries to stay within his limitations, unlike Adam Selwood who kicks often even though he is an average to poor kick. The key point to his effectiveness is our other players, when he has the ball players from behind him should be streaming past (ie Hurn, Smith etc) so we can pump it long and effectively, also when he is required to kick hurriedly the players forward of the play need to be aware and be in front as his kicks can drop quickly.

We will be a better team when he is our 4th or 5th midfielder but at the moment he is still in the top 2 and a required player. I would play him less minutes because he does tend to drop off late in games, but with the way he plays that is not unexpected. He is a ball winner and it is up to us to use him as effectively as possible, plus for him to continue to improve his game to keep up with the changes.

 

[lmach]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

PRIDDIS is one of the best player in the comp.
In the top 20 easily.

What I read sometimes in this thread is crap crap crap crap crap crap.

Priddis had the physical strength to stand up to the physical onslaught against Collingwood more than any other player.

There was one passage of play where he dummied maybe 4 times in a row.
And the opposition just fell for it.
He is faster than last year and covers heaps more ground.

Priddis creates energy going forward using his bulldozer approach.

Its great watching him in close bump someone over with tenacity and then give a slick handpass out.
This often happens when he dives in and gets the ball 95% of the competition would not have the strength to get in the first place

100% agree

He gets the prime role in our side. The stoppages are set up with him as a primary option. He plays more minutes in the critical inside position. He is rising 27. He is an established player who is likely to be right around his peak right now.

Our team was flogged in the midfield. Their mids ran off him all day into goal scoring positions. He hacked the ball inside our F50 more than most and the majority of times it set up Thomas or Davis for a R50. His hacked kicks forward played right into the hands of a team that set up to run the ball from their half back line. You may have noticed with Thomas that he basically ran towards CHB at most centre bounces and often benefitted for our hacked first possession.

He was less effective than Kerr but got way more minutes in the middle. He also was likely our main uncontested possession guy and barely set up anything.

I have no problem acknowledging him as a hard worker, a guy who achieves a lot for his limited talent but its when that is confused with him being really good that something needs to be mentioned. He isn't very good in key areas, like ball use and decision making - given he rarely tries to create anything (unlike say Kerr) DE should be really high but it isn't and every kick he has is still an adventure in uncertainty. People occasionally compare him to a Watson on here and I want them to imagine what Watson would do with a 13 possession quarter of "dominance"? You reckon Essendon might do better than 1 goal in that quarter?

Its a question of performance v role. He is a hard working role player masquerading as a "gun" midfielder. Its like heaping praise on Michael Braun if Braun was number 1 mid. And if he'd been a few years younger he might have been over the last few seasons....

Clubs have moved on stalwarts and players who were first 22 every week because they are building for the future and because they players are denying opportunity to more talented but less ready and less developed kids.

Priddis is a MacManus, a latter era Carr and Hasleby, certainly a Vandenburg .... good enough players, a couple of club captains but guys who can keep you in games, not win you flags given the significance of their roles....

He was our most significant mid on Sunday, and we were slaughtered because of poor decision making and poor skill execution when taking the ball forward. We were also killed on the rebound by the Pies forward surging and goal kicking mids .... all areas in which Priddis has issues ...

But yes, lets blame others, I mean he got in 32 times and he was hard at the ball all day...

You are so so wrong

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

100% agree

Could you just name the 6 blokes Priddis is better than

Selwood, J
Swan
Pendlebury
Thomas
Watson
Cox
Ablett
Brown
Pavlich
Mundy
Riewoldt J
Riewoldt N
Goddard
Franklin
Hodge
Sandilands
Scarlett
Goodes
Murphy
Judd
Griffen
LeCras
Enright
Hayes
Chapman

 

[paran]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

Look, I really like Priddis, but here's my issue. I think Kerr, Shuey and Scooter (as tagger) should be the the guys around the ruck contests each time. I think Masten shoudl be next in line from those 3. If this were to happen, Priddis would have to play another position. My question is, which position? And I can't find a postion where he is better than the incument. Rosa and Embers on the wing? No. Fwd pocket? No. HBF? No chance. Ebert and Darling on HFF? No.

If he was more of a tagger he coudl take McGinnity's role, but he's not fast/athletic enough and Scooter is superior in the run-with role. For me, it's a case of the team evolving without him. Harsh, but unfortunately that's the way I see us improving. Unless his vision improves to the point where he can do the handpasses that a Kerr, Ball, Watson, etc can do to release their team mates to advantage - then he would step up to being a class mid.

 

[The Dodger]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

Why is it an idictment? He just wasn't in the top half dozen players - fairly simple I would have thought. It's not necessrily those stats didn't have an effect (I actually don't know i didn't see the game) - it's just that those stats didn't affect the outcome as much as some others.

Let's for example assume he was ineffective overall - not negative - just neutral - how is having 25+ possessions and being neutral any worse than having 15 possessions and being neutral?

Brent Moloney had 15 possessions on Friday night - he didn't get votes - so is that mysteriously better than Priddis getting 25 touches against Sydney?

To me having those stats and still being neutral on the result is perhaps an indictment on that player. Leading possession winner, Leading 1st possession winner, 5 clearances and still ineffectual.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

To me having those stats and still being neutral on the result is perhaps an indictment on that player. Leading possession winner, Leading 1st possession winner, 5 clearances and still ineffectual.

As opposed to not being able to get near it and being ineffectual?

So point out the difference?

How is it not an indictment that a senior player can't get the pill?

 

[GO EAGLES]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

Could you just name the 6 blokes Priddis is better than

Selwood, J
Swan
Pendlebury
Thomas
Watson
Cox
Ablett
Brown
Pavlich
Mundy
Riewoldt J
Riewoldt N
Goddard
Franklin
Hodge
Sandilands
Scarlett
Goodes
Murphy
Judd
Griffen
LeCras
Enright
Hayes
Chapman

These are 6

 

[The Dodger]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

As opposed to not being able to get near it and being ineffectual?

So point out the difference?

How is it not an indictment that a senior player can't get the pill?

Where did I say it wasn't an indictment if a senior player can't get the ball?
And a senior player who can't get near it is in trouble.

Moloney would consider that a bad game. But how would adding another 12-15 ineffectual possessions to his stats help him impact the game more?

 

[WCErevival]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

Seriously he can do it and probably raise 10k for charity in doing so, needs to get it done as his hair is ridiculous. Thank goodness pendlebury cut his hair.

Speaking of funny hair my ex was out and about with the kids the other day at a park with a grass tree. My 2 and a half year old son ran up to a dying grass tree, hugged it and yelled nic naitanui!

Haha well Natanui is very tree like.

As you can see from my awesome photo editing he will look like a buff Judd.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

Where did I say it wasn't an indictment if a senior player can't get the ball?
And a senior player who can't get near it is in trouble.

Moloney would consider that a bad game. But how would adding another 12-15 ineffectual possessions to his stats help him impact the game more?

it wouldn't at all

it would make Moloney's game equivalent to Priddis

However you reckon it's an indictment on priddis yet hold Moloney up as superior

Both blokes can have poor or average games. As can any bloke

So simply saying that Priddis had an ineffectuaal game with 25 touches just means he had a ineffectual game - the number of touches are irrelevant

It doesn't mean the next week he can't have 25 touches and be effective - just like Moloney might increase his output the following week

I just don't get the strategy of picking one poor game (again i didn't see it) out of 9 and claiming that he had touches and wasn't effective when every bloke has poor games

 

[The Dodger]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

it wouldn't at all

it would make Moloney's game equivalent to Priddis

However you reckon it's an indictment on priddis yet hold Moloney up as superior

Both blokes can have poor or average games. As can any bloke

So simply saying that Priddis had an ineffectuaal game with 25 touches just means he had a ineffectual game - the number of touches are irrelevant

It doesn't mean the next week he can't have 25 touches and be effective - just like Moloney might increase his output the following week

I just don't get the strategy of picking one poor game (again i didn't see it) out of 9 and claiming that he had touches and wasn't effective when every bloke has poor games

No the coaches votes hold Moloney up as superior, in a poorer performing team.

I'm not sure I would call the Sydney game a poor game (understood that you didn't see it), I highlighted that game because statistically he had one of his usual games in a close result. Yet didn't poll. I could pick another poor game the Essendon game (which I remeber you have commented on). Again similar stats with little result. Then compare with one of the good games and see the difference is 1-2 clearances another 2-3 tackles.
With Priddis his output won't increase much, thats my point he will get 25+ possessions 5+clearances it's just our perception of how much he impacted the game that changes. Where as if Moloney goes from 15 possessions to 25+ I am betting there would be a big difference in his effect on the game.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

No the coaches votes hold Moloney up as superior, in a poorer performing team.

I'm not sure I would call the Sydney game a poor game (understood that you didn't see it), I highlighted that game because statistically he had one of his usual games in a close result. Yet didn't poll. I could pick another poor game the Essendon game (which I remeber you have commented on). Again similar stats with little result. Then compare with one of the good games and see the difference is 1-2 clearances another 2-3 tackles.
With Priddis his output won't increase much, thats my point he will get 25+ possessions 5+clearances it's just our perception of how much he impacted the game that changes. Where as if Moloney goes from 15 possessions to 25+ I am betting there would be a big difference in his effect on the game.

No they didn't - they gave both players zero votes in the respective game.

This is where Priddis gets a bad wrap IMO

Priddis could have the same statistical output from one week to another - and be completely different in his effect on the game. It would beyeequivalent to loney going from 15 touches to 25.

Yet those that don't rate him just say look another ineffective 25 touches.

Those that do rate him say both games were effective.

When the reality is smack bang in the middle.

I reckon if when Pridds plays a sub-par game he got 16 touches instead of 25 we wouldn't have this argument.

FWIW I think this has been Priddis' best season - he's getting forward of centre and actually getting the ball into the hands of leading forwards far more than any year prior.

And i'll go on a limb and say his disposal and output this year accounts for Matthew Pavlich in 2011.

 

[The Dodger]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

No they didn't - they gave both players zero votes in the respective game.

This is where Priddis gets a bad wrap IMO

Priddis could have the same statistical output from one week to another - and be completely different in his effect on the game. It would beyeequivalent to loney going from 15 touches to 25.

Yet those that don't rate him just say look another ineffective 25 touches.

Those that do rate him say both games were effective.

When the reality is smack bang in the middle.

I reckon if when Pridds plays a sub-par game he got 16 touches instead of 25 we wouldn't have this argument.

FWIW I think this has been Priddis' best season - he's getting forward of centre and actually getting the ball into the hands of leading forwards far more than any year prior.

And i'll go on a limb and say his disposal and output this year accounts for Matthew Pavlich in 2011.

Was referring to the fact that Moloney leads Priddis in AFL coaches award overall. In other words Moloney in 2011 (including 15 disposal nothing game) better (according to the coaches votes) than a guy who's output drops very little per game in a better performed team. So they are the ones that hold Moloney up over Priddis.
Interested in what you think changes from one Priddis game to the next that makes him more effectual to a result?
Because if you raked footballers on consistency he would probably no.1 for me.

Definitely agree on the last point.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

Interested in what you think changes from one Priddis game to the next that makes him more effectual to a result?
Because if you raked footballers on consistency he would probably no.1 for me.

First and foremost where he wins the ball

E87 loves to hold up the argument that priddis had the worst 40 plus touch game of all time - which may be true (he forgets kerr was just as guilty). The reason being he barely got a ball forward of centre and they all just went sideways

This year Priddis is winning the ball more in dangerous areas and actually setting up more successful forward thrusts

So from one game if he ends up just getting 5m handballs around half back - as opposed to another where he delivers a handball to a runner in space 70m from goal - the same stat - different output.

 

[Eagle87]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

First and foremost where he wins the ball

E87 loves to hold up the argument that priddis had the worst 40 plus touch game of all time - which may be true (he forgets kerr was just as guilty). The reason being he barely got a ball forward of centre and they all just went sideways

This year Priddis is winning the ball more in dangerous areas and actually setting up more successful forward thrusts

So from one game if he ends up just getting 5m handballs around half back - as opposed to another where he delivers a handball to a runner in space 70m from goal - the same stat - different output.

Just on the bolded bit, your Kerr assertion is incorrect.

Kerr was very good in that game, got 2 Brownlow votes in a side that was flogged and was universally voted our best player and one of the best of the ground. He continually tried to attack the Hawks zone and to take them on.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

Just on the bolded bit, your Kerr assertion is incorrect.

Kerr was very good in that game, got 2 Brownlow votes in a side that was flogged and was universally voted our best player and one of the best of the ground. He continually tried to attack the Hawks zone and to take them on.

Well i reckon if you can claim Priddis was just average when both coaches gave him BOG - i reckon i'll stick with my opinion that Kerr's game wasn't much better in that game.

Both of them waxed across half back without much go forward.

 

[Eagle87]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

Well i reckon if you can claim Priddis was just average when both coaches gave him BOG - i reckon i'll stick with my opinion that Kerr's game wasn't much better in that game.

Both of them waxed across half back without much go forward.

So when coaches vote Pridda best on ground in a win thats accurate but when everyone (except you) votes Kerr outstanding in a flogging its inaccurate because of some sort of bizarre leap in your logic.

I understand that some votes do get it wrong but anyone who watched that game would understand that the Hawks did concede possession to those two but that the two players used said possession differently. Priddis "played within his limitations" i.e. lots of pointless sideways short passes and 2m handballs. Kerr tried to attack by receiving the ball at pace or by simply attacking the zone with run and carry...

I'm sure one could find the game on DVD or whatever ... but hey, lets avoid facts when they hurt YOUR argument.

Priddis remains a middling plodder, a non-elite mid who gets primo position in our midfield and commands 80%+ of an attacking mids spot. He limits our upside in such a role. You know that.

 

[swannies]

Quick (although when relating to Priddis I understand that may not be achievable ) question E87. Who do you see as Priddis replacement? The guy that can do the extracting that Priddis does but give us a bit more forward momentum, or hurt factor, if you will?

 

[Rids]

TFS - I have been with you almost the way but I reckon E87 may be right on that particular Hawthorn game ... Priddis had very little impact that night and Kerr was pretty good as far as I recall (Priddis was still probably our 2nd best player ... but there wasn't much too choose from!).

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Re: Votes vs Collingwood

So when coaches vote Pridda best on ground in a win thats accurate but when everyone (except you) votes Kerr outstanding in a flogging its inaccurate because of some sort of bizarre leap in your logic.

Not at all - just my recollection from a game 3 years ago - it's how i remember it from the time. (Edit: I don't take often to re-watching 10 goal floggings 3 years later)

SImilarly when coaches vote someone best on ground - it doesn't have to be right - but if they do it multiple times - i reckon at least once they might

Also - who would you rate as a better judge - the coaches or the umps?

Not everything has to be chest beating btw

 

[Eagle87]

Quick (although when relating to Priddis I understand that may not be achievable ) question E87. Who do you see as Priddis replacement? The guy that can do the extracting that Priddis does but give us a bit more forward momentum, or hurt factor, if you will?

Mate, who knows, until we play people in that position for multiple games we won't know. But Kerr is the best inside mid in our team by some margin. We have a plethora of guys who were drafted as inside mids who offer more than Priddis when they get the ball or in a spread - Masten, Swift, Stevens as a few...

The thing is that people can always argue that Priddis gets lots of clearances (which is debateable given TOG & his role - he is Top 20 in the league but at 5.8 a game he is in the middle of a pack of guys and not outstanding). He does well at contested possessions but thats as much a function of role and volume of stats. Would I lose 3 or 4 contested possessions of Priddis and get a more rounded player? Absolutely...

Thats really my point. Do we lose some inside grunt with Priddis out? Possibly, but you lose contested possessions if he is replaced Ablett, Judd or Pendlebury and we'd be MILES in front with them ahead of Priddis. He is a very limited player playing a lot of minutes in a key position - I reckon we'd be immediately better having Kerr, S Selwood & Shuey as our starting mids but that relegates Pridda to the bench because he can't play anywhere else. So he plays and plays and plays and everyone else fits in around him ... its always worth remembering, that he also gets 15+ uncontested possessions a week and he is very poor relative to starting mids league wide with ball in hand in space - at best he becomes adequate ... whether its worth carrying a guy because of his "inside" work when the nature of our game sees him getting 15+ outside possessions a game is a question for others to determine and I guess my view is I'd like someone who hurts teams way more when we get the ball because at present he doesn't. And i reckon the impact on our inside work of him being moved aside would be far less than some others ...

 

[Scotland]

Thats really my point. Do we lose some inside grunt with Priddis out? Possibly, but you lose contested possessions if he is replaced Ablett, Judd or Pendlebury and we'd be MILES in front with them ahead of Priddis. He is a very limited player playing a lot of minutes in a key position - I reckon we'd be immediately better having Kerr, S Selwood & Shuey as our starting mids but that relegates Pridda to the bench because he can't play anywhere else. So he plays and plays and plays and everyone else fits in around him ...

Cox, Kerr, Shuey, S Selwood
Naitanui, Masten, LeCras, A Selwood

Matt who?