World Cup 2019 Day 3 - Afghanistan v Australia - 10:30PM AEST - Sri Lanka v NZ 7:30

Fagan Pride

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Doubt they'll drop Davey, so you've got no chance of actually beating anyone

England might adopt the keep Davey in strategy, cos if he is in it for himself, Australia ain't going to be making a match winning total
In it for himself? There was no need for him to do anything silly last night against Afghanistan. Finch was down the other end making light work of afghans attack, so it enabled Warner to spend some valuable time out in the middle in a live game situation and get some much needed runs on the board. We don’t even need Warner to fire against England as seen in our practice match victory.
 

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eddiesmith

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In it for himself? There was no need for him to do anything silly last night against Afghanistan. Finch was down the other end making light work of afghans attack, so it enabled Warner to spend some valuable time out in the middle in a live game situation and get some much needed runs on the board. We don’t even need Warner to fire against England as seen in our practice match victory.
You just better hope you don't miss out due to NRR after every other top team belts Afghanistan in 20 overs
 

CrowBloke

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1) From my POV the sentence was far too lenient. 2) He brought Australian cricket in to disrepute and threw away 150ish years of tradition of hard nosed but ultimately fair play. 3) The sentence should have been a lifelong ban. 4) And besides, just because he is eligible to play, it does not mean he must be selected. 5) Hell, I'm eligible, but I'm nearing 60 and couldn't make a dozen in the local 4th's. Do I get selected? :)
1) There was A LOT of heated discussion at the time on our Board about the incident, other examples of ball-tampering --- eg Atherton/Afridi/du Plessis --- and (weak, ineffective) ICC punishments.
Many would agree with you.
I thought the 12-month ban took an Australian stand in the face of ICC weakness and was about right. Cronje got a life ban for taking bribes/match-fixing as Captain, no less, and what Warner/Smith/Bancroft did was not as bad/severe.
2) The phrase "brought Australian Cricket into disrepute" has degrees of meaning. The Aussie cricket team has been widely loathed Internationally for several years, but not because of that ball-tampering. No, for their over-the-top, line-shifting, hypocritical and often vile sledging by which I've been embarrassed for years. Most recently, Warner led the way in this. The man has anger management issues for sure.
3) We're in agreement about Warner-the-man, who's a thug and a bully but ultimately a coward when he gets a dose of his own medicine. I wouldn't have a beer with him.
Respectfully, I disagree; a lifelong ban would have been too much.
4) Well, now that he's eligible and scored heavily in the IPL, he's been selected on the basis of form, recent and former. Personally, I'd be happy if he was overlooked but I'm not a Selector. For all his flaws :thumbsdown:, he has immense batting talent. Very capable fieldsman, too.
5) LOL, yeah, well, I'm not eligible either (too old, never was good enough). Neither of us will get selected, but we can watch this talented, better-behaved Aussie side in good spirit and enjoy the ride, leaving the sandpaper-scandal behind us.
Thanks for the opportunity to discuss, though :thumbsu:, cheers!
 

DaRick

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Comfortable win, but then it should have been, really.

I'm surprised at those criticising Afghanistan's decision to bat first - it gives their spinners the best chance of getting something out of the game in the second innings, when the wicket would have deteriorated some.

That their batsmen as a whole had trouble structuring an innings, and that their captain was overly defensive at the beginning of our innings, doesn't make the call to bat first wrong in and of itself.

BTW, I don't like Warner and in an ideal world he wouldn't be in the Australian side, but he's served his suspension (which was IMO grossly disproportionate to begin with) and so is rightly eligible for selection.
 
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BlueBayou

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1) There was A LOT of heated discussion at the time on our Board about the incident, other examples of ball-tampering --- eg Atherton/Afridi/du Plessis --- and (weak, ineffective) ICC punishments.
Many would agree with you.
I thought the 12-month ban took an Australian stand in the face of ICC weakness and was about right. Cronje got a life ban for taking bribes/match-fixing as Captain, no less, and what Warner/Smith/Bancroft did was not as bad/severe.
2) The phrase "brought Australian Cricket into disrepute" has degrees of meaning. The Aussie cricket team has been widely loathed Internationally for several years, but not because of that ball-tampering. No, for their over-the-top, line-shifting, hypocritical and often vile sledging by which I've been embarrassed for years. Most recently, Warner led the way in this. The man has anger management issues for sure.
3) We're in agreement about Warner-the-man, who's a thug and a bully but ultimately a coward when he gets a dose of his own medicine. I wouldn't have a beer with him.
Respectfully, I disagree; a lifelong ban would have been too much.
4) Well, now that he's eligible and scored heavily in the IPL, he's been selected on the basis of form, recent and former. Personally, I'd be happy if he was overlooked but I'm not a Selector. For all his flaws :thumbsdown:, he has immense batting talent. Very capable fieldsman, too.
5) LOL, yeah, well, I'm not eligible either (too old, never was good enough). Neither of us will get selected, but we can watch this talented, better-behaved Aussie side in good spirit and enjoy the ride, leaving the sandpaper-scandal behind us.
Thanks for the opportunity to discuss, though :thumbsu:, cheers!
Hi, and thanks for a reasoned response.

When I said Warner had brought Aussie cricket into disrepute, I was including his boorish behaviour on and off field as well. I would have used the opportunity to remove him from the setup all together and set an example for all who follow. the ball tampering and bullying of Bancroft would have been a rather large last straw for me.
I played from 8 to 58 years at various levels. I've played plenty of first grade cricket, and copped plenty of sledging in my time (gave a little back the other way too) there are levels, and my understanding is the Aussies went way too far in crossing that line. And no, I was never even close to being good enough for the big time either... :)

I agree I would not have a beer with Warner either, and I don't mind a beer or 5 :)

The Cronje example is a fair one. He was definitely an offender of a higher order, who ultimately punished himself.
 

DangerSloane

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I got an invite!
How special.

Usually I get banned not invited anywhere.
 

RohitSharma

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Hi, and thanks for a reasoned response.

When I said Warner had brought Aussie cricket into disrepute, I was including his boorish behaviour on and off field as well. I would have used the opportunity to remove him from the setup all together and set an example for all who follow. the ball tampering and bullying of Bancroft would have been a rather large last straw for me.
I played from 8 to 58 years at various levels. I've played plenty of first grade cricket, and copped plenty of sledging in my time (gave a little back the other way too) there are levels, and my understanding is the Aussies went way too far in crossing that line. And no, I was never even close to being good enough for the big time either... :)

I agree I would not have a beer with Warner either, and I don't mind a beer or 5 :)

The Cronje example is a fair one. He was definitely an offender of a higher order, who ultimately punished himself.
How did Warner bully Bancorft
 

Lynchy04

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Gotta love the poms whinging they have a coward thug still playing for him and have blatantly ball tampered in the past and the act all high and mighty. Add the Stuart broad smash to 7th slip....


West Indies Australia the clear 2 best sides so far with India yet to play. England are all noise and no substance then the pressure comes. They will be lucky to make a final. Bowling attack is one of the worst in the cup
 

BrissyCrow

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I tend to take the view that cheating is cheating. The player should be given a lengthy suspension. Where my view changes is with a player who has been made the Captain. This is a serious position, one that is usually viewed upon as being honest, high integrity, demanding, skillful, a person that we can all be proud of and one we look up to, a man we can trust. So if the captain is caught cheating then I feel he should be given a life ban from the game.

So I am struggling to understand Smiths punishment.
 

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RohitSharma

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Gotta love the poms whinging they have a coward thug still playing for him and have blatantly ball tampered in the past and the act all high and mighty. Add the Stuart broad smash to 7th slip....


West Indies Australia the clear 2 best sides so far with India yet to play. England are all noise and no substance then the pressure comes. They will be lucky to make a final. Bowling attack is one of the worst in the cup
I agree we have the best bowling attack in the world. Team India 1 and Number 2 is Kiwis 3 is Australia 4 who knows ?
 

Ishikawa

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I tend to take the view that cheating is cheating. The player should be given a lengthy suspension. Where my view changes is with a player who has been made the Captain. This is a serious position, one that is usually viewed upon as being honest, high integrity, demanding, skillful, a person that we can all be proud of and one we look up to, a man we can trust. So if the captain is caught cheating then I feel he should be given a life ban from the game.

So I am struggling to understand Smiths punishment.
Jesus Christ.

How does anyone even remotely benefit from CA imposing a life ban on Smith? He got absolutely nailed and rightly so, but a life ban get a grip.
 

BrissyCrow

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How does anyone even remotely benefit from CA imposing a life ban on Smith? He got absolutely nailed and rightly so, but a life ban get a grip.[/QUOTE]
Jesus Christ.

How does anyone even remotely benefit from CA imposing a life ban on Smith? He got absolutely nailed and rightly so, but a life ban get a grip.
I have a grip. You have your opinion and I have mine. Its just that our values in life are different.
 

Ishikawa

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How does anyone even remotely benefit from CA imposing a life ban on Smith? He got absolutely nailed and rightly so, but a life ban get a grip.

I have a grip. You have your opinion and I have mine. Its just that our values in life are different.[/QUOTE]

A 12 month ban.
Sacked as Australian captain & banned from any leadership position in cricket for life.
Australian contract in the vicinity of $2m a year.
IPL contract of $2.4m.
Multitude of endorsements/commercial partnerships ended.
Public humiliation and tarring.

Smith's leadership clearly failed. So while the above is pretty brutal, in the end I feel a 12 month ban is a pretty heavy statement to make and ensures the likes of this will not be accepted by a cricket leader in Australia again. The life ban from a formal leadership position is fitting.

What purposes does a life ban from cricket serve anyone other than your own gratuitous sense of self righteousness? Where else in society do we demonstrate such absolute heavy handedness on weak leadership?

The only positive I can think of is that horrendous Vodafone ad would never have come to light.
 

DangerSloane

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Point number 1 that people seem to continually ignore:

Smith did not once cheat.
 

CrowBloke

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Warne took a diuretic to lose body fluid because his mum told him he was looking chubby on TV.
You can believe the "It-was-Mum's-fault" story, or not. Because it's a classic example of blaming and responsibility avoidance, I don't, but we'll never know.
My recollection is he got money from some bookies (with M. Waugh) to tell them the pitch conditions. Unsavoury perhaps, but has no influence on the game.
How to Water Down what was actually happening: confess to reporting about pitch conditions, but no more than that. Yes, they knew the bookie. Yes, he paid them, but only to tell him about the state of the pitch ...?? :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Again, I didn't believe it, but again we'll never know.
I doubt that a bookie would be paying them for info "only" about the pitch.
From The Guardian, 10/12/98:
"What was never revealed was that Warne and Waugh had been secretly fined by the ACB around the same time after it became evident they had been paid by an Indian bookmaker on a previous tour of Sri Lanka for providing basic cricketing information: the weather forecast, team changes, state of the pitch and so on. "
So, the ACB tried to cover it up. I'd like to know more about the "and so on", myself.
 

JackOutback

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Point number 1 that people seem to continually ignore:

Smith did not once cheat.
He certainly did, as did the rest of the team, as did other nations. Unless you believe this was the first incident of ball tampering in the history of cricket.
 

DangerSloane

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He certainly did, as did the rest of the team, as did other nations. Unless you believe this was the first incident of ball tampering in the history of cricket.
Smith didnt tamper with the ball.
He didnt order his team to tamper with the ball.

Smith did not cheat.

His crime was willful ignorance.
 

Richard Pryor

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I tend to take the view that cheating is cheating. The player should be given a lengthy suspension. Where my view changes is with a player who has been made the Captain. This is a serious position, one that is usually viewed upon as being honest, high integrity, demanding, skillful, a person that we can all be proud of and one we look up to, a man we can trust. So if the captain is caught cheating then I feel he should be given a life ban from the game.

So I am struggling to understand Smiths punishment.
Do you also think people should have their hand cut off for stealing a loaf of bread?
 

BlueBayou

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You can believe the "It-was-Mum's-fault" story, or not. Because it's a classic example of blaming and responsibility avoidance, I don't, but we'll never know.

How to Water Down what was actually happening: confess to reporting about pitch conditions, but no more than that. Yes, they knew the bookie. Yes, he paid them, but only to tell him about the state of the pitch ...?? :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Again, I didn't believe it, but again we'll never know.
I doubt that a bookie would be paying them for info "only" about the pitch.
From The Guardian, 10/12/98:
"What was never revealed was that Warne and Waugh had been secretly fined by the ACB around the same time after it became evident they had been paid by an Indian bookmaker on a previous tour of Sri Lanka for providing basic cricketing information: the weather forecast, team changes, state of the pitch and so on. "
So, the ACB tried to cover it up. I'd like to know more about the "and so on", myself.
Yes, I do believe the story about the diuretics. I think it is just the simple truth. Warnie was a dill not to know the diuretics were a banned substance, but nothing more. The mandatory sentence of a years ban was very harsh in the circumstances.

As I said, 'my recollection' was that he had dealings with a bookie. I didn't go and research. Thanks for the extra information. With the exception of the mysterious 'and so on' none of the listed offences have any effect on the playing of the game. It seems to me 'and so on' must be lesser charges, or the journo's would use it as the lead, no? I don't have a memory of this secret fine. Probably because it was secret.
 

BrissyCrow

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Do you also think people should have their hand cut off for stealing a loaf of bread?
Now you are going back a long way in time. On a side note...my great great grandfather was jailed for 10 years for stealling a piece of wood. He wanted it so he could make a leg. Anyway, No I dont but there should be stronger punishment for stealing. In most cases that involve stealing there is also the use of brute force. But our judges let them off. So no I dont endorse the cutting off of a hand I do believe that punishment should be harsher.

Now you tell me.....would you agree to a pedifile being castrated. Actually this is a bit of the topic so lets focus on the cricket.
 

JackOutback

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Smith didnt tamper with the ball.
He didnt order his team to tamper with the ball.

Smith did not cheat.

His crime was willful ignorance.
I wish I could be this naive and enjoy cricket in all its simplicity. Ball tampering has been going on in all teams since time immemorial. Warner was known for wearing tape to alter the condition of the all. Smith fielded next to him. The bowlers received the ball from Warner. Do I need to connect the dots?
 

DangerSloane

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I wish I could be this naive and enjoy cricket in all its simplicity. Ball tampering has been going on in all teams since time immemorial. Warner was known for wearing tape to alter the condition of the all. Smith fielded next to him. The bowlers received the ball from Warner. Do I need to connect the dots?
So what you're saying is that in any situation, if someone in your team cheats, you're automatically a cheat.
 
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