World doping news

[blackcat]

Are you saying Nick Bideau and Oz are linked to Kenya? Had to double check, but his squad is Melbourne International Track Club that he set up around 1996/1997, when he was going out with Cathy Freeman and went from athlete to coach and then athlete manager / representative, which is more lucrative than coaching.

Or are you linking him, EPO and Oz middle distance runners since he started managing Craig Mottram in the early 2000's and Craig became known as the Big Mazungo competing with the Kenyans. Nic and Craig had a failing out around 2009 and 2010.

It dawned on me how much the great Kenyans and Ethiopians got involved with EPO when sports scientist Ross Tucker of the Science of Sports website produced that graph of 5000m and 10000m runners around 2006 of the previous 10-15 years of fastest time per year on one line and average of top 15 athletes per year on another and how both lines followed a steady downward track, then huge downward curves when EPO was introduced to the sports world.

I have posted it a couple of times on Big Footy. See if I can find it. Not surprised young athletes in poverty stricken Kenya try and get out of their families dirt poor situation and agents say you have top get on the gear for us to buy you travel and accommodation to Euro meets, you then can make some money and we get a big percentage.

Russ come to Melbourne pre '20 NB as agent was managing ± dozen Kenyans and they would be running around the tan .... i thought this was common knowledge in aths circles and you would have known it

 

[Glorfindel]

It dawned on me how much the great Kenyans and Ethiopians got involved with EPO when sports scientist Ross Tucker of the Science of Sports website produced that graph of 5000m and 10000m runners around 2006 of the previous 10-15 years of fastest time per year on one line and average of top 15 athletes per year on another and how both lines followed a steady downward track, then huge downward curves when EPO was introduced to the sports world.

I’ve seen a few similar graphs.
There’s also one that shows everyone slowed down slightly when WADA formed, before the times took off again (presumably when everyone worked out they could get around the testing).

 

[faible]

Not surprised young athletes in poverty stricken Kenya try and get out of their families dirt poor situation and agents say you have top get on the gear for us to buy you travel and accommodation to Euro meets, you then can make some money and we get a big percentage.

Even a year or two of decent performances and winnings then being caught is likely worth it for them, you can earn tens of thousands of dollars in that time and set your family up for years.

Once you're at a truly elite level, you're talking life changing money for some of these athletes. How much has Chepng'etich earned over the past few years? Will her Marathon WR be erased? Even if she never runs again she's probably earned enough now that it's all been worth it for someone with the prospects of the average Kenyan.

The risk:reward on doping generally ends up well and truly in favour of choose PEDs.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Even a year or two of decent performances and winnings then being caught is likely worth it for them, you can earn tens of thousands of dollars in that time and set your family up for years.

Once you're at a truly elite level, you're talking life changing money for some of these athletes. How much has Chepng'etich earned over the past few years? Will her Marathon WR be erased? Even if she never runs again she's probably earned enough now that it's all been worth it for someone with the prospects of the average Kenyan.

The risk:reward on doping generally ends up well and truly in favour of choose PEDs.

That's why the bans for doping need to be more sever. The softly softly approach doesn't work.
A 4 year ban first time and a life ban the 2nd time is what's required to get the message home.
Sweeping a sports drug problems under the rug doesn't do the sport or the athlete any favours

 

[faible]

That's why the bans for doping need to be more sever. The softly softly approach doesn't work.
A 4 year ban first time and a life ban the 2nd time is what's required to get the message home.
Sweeping a sports drug problems under the rug doesn't do the sport or the athlete any favours

Even an immediate lifetime ban wouldn't stop it when you're talking about people with no real other option for a chance to earn that kind of money. You're talking life changing money from winning a single marathon major. If you're looking at $2,000 annual income for the average person, winning Boston @ $150,000 makes it all worth the risk.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Even an immediate lifetime ban wouldn't stop it when you're talking about people with no real other option for a chance to earn that kind of money. You're talking life changing money from winning a single marathon major. If you're looking at $2,000 annual income for the average person, winning Boston @ $150,000 makes it all worth the risk.

But it might send a message out to other drugs cheats

 

[blackcat]

That's why the bans for doping need to be more sever. The softly softly approach doesn't work.
A 4 year ban first time and a life ban the 2nd time is what's required to get the message home.
Sweeping a sports drug problems under the rug doesn't do the sport or the athlete any favours

the authorities and the hierarchy are well aware of what goes on , the public otoh are not

 

[blackcat]

But it might send a message out to other drugs cheats

read Werner Reiterer again , CHEAT is a misnomer and category error

 

[blackcat]

Even an immediate lifetime ban wouldn't stop it when you're talking about people with no real other option for a chance to earn that kind of money. You're talking life changing money from winning a single marathon major. If you're looking at $2,000 annual income for the average person, winning Boston @ $150,000 makes it all worth the risk.

pareto principle ,

with female runners Nick Bideau could have had two dozen Kenyans living in Melbourne for his troop (or troupe) in 2018 , only a few women , Nike and other sponsors contribute to a 5million budget* and athletes get close to Australian av.weekly/yearly salary all expenses paid , share house in Coburg with all modcons , it could be Sunshine/Broadmeadows West

any prize money they win is theirs to keep , northern hemisphere diamond league flights/costs picked up by Bideau


*just spitballing how plays out , Nick?

RussellEbertHandball

 

[Aussie in exile]

read Werner Reiterer again , CHEAT is a misnomer and category error

Cheat is the word to describe people who use PEDS

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

pareto principle ,

with female runners Nick Bideau could have had two dozen Kenyans living in Melbourne for his troop (or troupe) in 2018 , only a few women , Nike and other sponsors contribute to a 5million budget* and athletes get close to Australian av.weekly/yearly salary all expenses paid , share house in Coburg with all modcons , it could be Sunshine/Broadmeadows West

any prize money they win is theirs to keep , northern hemisphere diamond league flights/costs picked up by Bideau


*just spitballing how plays out , Nick?

RussellEbertHandball

I have never really looked into how the money flows in track and field ie split between promoters / agents / athletes. The big stars get nearly all the cash but don't how it works the next tier down.

Track and field is so unstructured compared to the big team sports where you have central pooled monies being distributed eg AFL / EPL / NFL / cricket media rights etc. Track and field its all individual deals.

 

[blackcat]

I have never really looked into how the money flows in track and field ie split between promoters / agents / athletes. The big stars get nearly all the cash but don't how it works the next tier down.

Track and field is so unstructured compared to the big team sports where you have central pooled monies being distributed eg AFL / EPL / NFL / cricket media rights etc. Track and field its all individual deals.

I'd expect Bideau gets contributions for his 5m international troupe from IOC + AusSportCommission + VicGov+ AthleticsAustralia +;MelbourneCityCouncil etc


Nike takes mantle of budget sponsorship , secondary sponsor like TOYOTA/Lexus

 

[Glorfindel]

But it might send a message out to other drugs cheats

Would it?
I’d say Lance Armstrong’s situation is still a net win (for him) despite being banned for life from pretty much everything.
For a lot of athletes the options are basically “don’t take PEDs and get nowhere” or “take PEDs, get somewhere but maybe get caught out and end up nowhere”.
Risk reward profile still favours using.

 

[blackcat]

Would it?
I’d say Lance Armstrong’s situation is still a net win (for him) despite being banned for life from pretty much everything.
For a lot of athletes the options are basically “don’t take PEDs and get nowhere” or “take PEDs, get somewhere but maybe get caught out and end up nowhere”.
Risk reward profile still favours using.

Lance prolly still has US$200million

 

[blackcat]

Lance prolly still has US$200million

two hundred million US dollars that is

US$ 200million thanks Nike ✓

what , that is 280± m in 4x in july

 

[Glorfindel]

we’ve gone from contaminated semen to saliva!

Venezuela's Oliveira gets 4-year ban for doping

Professional tennis player Goncalo Oliveira, who said a kiss caused a positive methamphetamine drug test, was suspended for four years by the International Tennis Integrity Agency on Friday.

www.espn.com.au

 

[Satan]

Olympic swimmer Penny Oleksiak gets two-year suspension for anti-doping rule violation

Oleksiak, Canada's most decorated female Olympian, was suspended after she failed to provide her whereabouts for drug testing three times.

www.nytimes.com

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Saw this CBC News story this morning. She accepts the ban, isn't challenging it. She pulled out of World Champs because she wasn't around when testers knocked on her door on 16th June and she wasn't there.


What happens if you put down 90 days in advance you will be at XYZ strip club and then a few hours later at ABC Brothel? I wonder whether the drug testers will visit those places to see if you are there to provide a sample?

 

[Glorfindel]

What happens if you put down 90 days in advance you will be at XYZ strip club and then a few hours later at ABC Brothel? I wonder whether the drug testers will visit those places to see if you are there to provide a sample?

I’ve thought the same about if you said you were in the middle of Nepal or the Amazon.

 

[faible]

I’ve thought the same about if you said you were in the middle of Nepal or the Amazon.

From memory Tenerife has no local testers so they have to fly in. Through the one very small local airport where everyone knows everyone.

I’m sure for totally not related reasons, Tenerife is / was also a popular pro cycling training location.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Saw this CBC News story this morning. She accepts the ban, isn't challenging it. She pulled out of World Champs because she wasn't around when testers knocked on her door on 16th June and she wasn't there.


What happens if you put down 90 days in advance you will be at XYZ strip club and then a few hours later at ABC Brothel? I wonder whether the drug testers will visit those places to see if you are there to provide a sample?

Just a pit some athletes just accept bans when they are caught instead of blaming on things that they have eaten by accident or drank something by accident

 

[Satan]

Just a pit some athletes just accept bans when they are caught instead of blaming on things that they have eaten by accident or drank something by accident

Or kissing or rubbed in

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Just a pit some athletes just accept bans when they are caught instead of blaming on things that they have eaten by accident or drank something by accident

I suspect she wants a 2 year holiday, or was basically ready to quit the sport after the World Champs.

2 years where you don't have worry about testers, as well as not training after a dozen years or so, of following that black line and several major injuries and not being able to produce PBs anymore, would have all been part of why she said yeah I wont waste money on lawyers fighting it.

 

[faible]

I suspect she wants a 2 year holiday, or was basically ready to quit the sport after the World Champs.

2 years where you don't have worry about testers, as well as not training after a dozen years or so, of following that black line and several major injuries and not being able to produce PBs anymore, would have all been part of why she said yeah I wont waste money on lawyers fighting it.

Or she’ll claim innocence, then announce in a few weeks she’s going to do the enhanced games like Fred Kerley did.

 

[Glorfindel]

I suspect she wants a 2 year holiday, or was basically ready to quit the sport after the World Champs.

2 years where you don't have worry about testers, as well as not training after a dozen years or so, of following that black line and several major injuries and not being able to produce PBs anymore, would have all been part of why she said yeah I wont waste money on lawyers fighting it.

Unless she’s retired she’ll still fall under WADA and could get tested (whether they bother or not is another question).
If she formally retires then they put a pause on the ban until she un-retires.
I’m pretty sure (powerlifter) Chleo Can Wyk(sp?) has had a suspended 4-year ASADA ban for over a decade.