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Worrying sign!

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FuManchu said:
MM relies on work ethic, he is almost seemingly opposed to individual brilliance. He wants players in the mould of his own playing style. Honest toilers. The rucks and midfield have been neglected almost the entirity of his tenure, it takes time to bring them up to scratch, but 9 years might be pushing the tolerance levels!
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Almost ??? He is opposed to individual brilliance,that's why honest toilers get 10 year careers at Collingwood,that's why Nick is Captain of Collingwood.
 
daicos21 said:
Almost ??? He is opposed to individual brilliance,that's why honest toilers get 10 year careers at Collingwood,that's why Nick is Captain of Collingwood.
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I dont mind Maxwell. One bad game doesnt make for a bad career.

We all know his limitations in terms of ability, but we have always known that. I still dont doubt the example he sets in all things football and I guess as long as he warrants a game, then he is probably the best option for captain at the moment.

Some have speculated pendlebury. But for mine, he has this ability to go missing at times, he is sublime rather than overtly dominant. He doesnt always put his body on the line, and thats cool because thats not his style, he is not a grunt player. But I think a grunt player is needed to be captain. Pendles is a bit like daicos, all the time and skill, but just doesnt need to risk his neck in all situations, and thats why daics was never going to be captain over a grunt like Shaw. You knew Shaw had real mongrel for the ball, the player anything in his way. Maxwell is much the same, maybe just not as good
 
FuManchu said:
I dont mind Maxwell. One bad game doesnt make for a bad career.

We all know his limitations in terms of ability, but we have always known that. I still dont doubt the example he sets in all things football and I guess as long as he warrants a game, then he is probably the best option for captain at the moment.

Some have speculated pendlebury. But for mine, he has this ability to go missing at times, he is sublime rather than overtly dominant. He doesnt always put his body on the line, and thats cool because thats not his style, he is not a grunt player. But I think a grunt player is needed to be captain. Pendles is a bit like daicos, all the time and skill, but just doesnt need to risk his neck in all situations, and thats why daics was never going to be captain over a grunt like Shaw. You knew Shaw had real mongrel for the ball, the player anything in his way. Maxwell is much the same, maybe just not as good
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I'm not talking about yesterdays game, after all almost the hole team was shite last night. My opinion is that what he brings to the plate(grunt,mongrel etc) is not enough. The majority of our fans, if given the chance to play would die for collingwood,let alone play with mongrel.Does this mean we should be getting a game?
 

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smiddaz123 said:
I think you should stop comparing Maxwell's skills to that of an average football fan.....
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and with smiddaz nicely summing it up, i believe the thread to be dead and daicos21 to be mae to look royally stupid.
 
daicos21 said:
Lol- ok then but which skill exactly is it that AFL fans bring up when talking about Maxwell?
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Being more of a man then nameless internet dropkicks?

hmm i suppose most of us have that dont we? not really you but you get teh drift
 
daicos21 said:
I'm not talking about yesterdays game, after all almost the hole team was shite last night. My opinion is that what he brings to the plate(grunt,mongrel etc) is not enough. The majority of our fans, if given the chance to play would die for collingwood,let alone play with mongrel.Does this mean we should be getting a game?
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If what I could possibly do if I had the chance came even partially close to what think I could do if I got the chance to play for Collingwood then I would be a triple Brownlow Medalist at least.

The trouble is the bloke you are talking about does not get the luxury of thinking about it. He has to do it and does. It is not a hypothetical. It his his job.
If you were Captain of the most famous football club in the land would you even in your dreams think it would be an easy job?
No single player, ever, is perfect. Every player in the Legends section of the Hall of Fame has had their faults on field and many off as well.

They are after all the imperfect animal that is the human being.

How about you save your test results until you've given the boy a chance to prove what sort a captain he is going to be?

That is going to take a while.

I am not sure that you are happy to base a report card on three excellent Nab Cup Games and one not so excellent...because that would be far too good a report to satisfy your required result.
Better to put down his three good games as Captain to "it only being NAB Cup" and focus on the one loss which apparently after the event is so very important.
 
Optimax said:
Being more of a man then nameless internet dropkicks?

hmm i suppose most of us have that dont we? not really you but you get teh drift
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Easy sweetheart.You got me there, i ain't nowhere near man enough to be provoking people over the net.
 
FuManchu said:
you are not allowed to argue with Col or any one of his 9 contrived alter egos he uses when he wants to abuse you, but retain some form of anonymity. He knows nothing about the game, so he has glib one line put downs to make you argue at a shallow level to match his understanding of the game.



I am still puzzled how many could think we are a chance this year. Where was the 10 goal improvement against Hawthorn going to come They beat us twice by that margin last year, both in the same manner. So it telling us something. Are we 5 or six goals better off offensively? NO, are we 5 or six goals better off defensively? NO Are we better manned in the mids and rucks? marginally. The game plan is the same, so all this fanciful talk of flags this year really needs to be justified with evidence of wholesale improvement accross the board.



For some, the rudimentary elements of team structure mean nothing. For them, they take a few shallow victories against poor teams, throw in the statements of the president who may or may not be under some pressure at board level, and all of a sudden we have fixed every problem that has been endemic for the last 9 years. I am pretty sure that the solution has never been that simple. Well ............. unless you are simple yourself I guess!



MM relies on work ethic, he is almost seemingly opposed to individual brilliance. He wants players in the mould of his own playing style. Honest toilers. The rucks and midfield have been neglected almost the entirity of his tenure, it takes time to bring them up to scratch, but 9 years might be pushing the tolerance levels!



Yes, a 50/50 H&A record is not really a period of dominance. Even his best season ( 2003) was only 68%. The supporters have learnt to derive joy from being battlers rather than dominators. They have sought solace from finals appearances rather than seeking flags. They have become numb and as a consequence defensive when anything is questioned. Any demands of excellence is seen as treason in their eyes.

Anything less than the expectation of excellence is actually the real treason.
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I agree with much of your assessment. Malthouse and McGuire have been in charge at the club for over 10 years now. In that time we have not recruited any raw-boned and physically intimidating and strong-marking ruckmen. I still remember vividly what Brisbane did to us in those 2 Grand Final defeats through Keating, McDonald, and Charman. I know that Fraser was the number 1 pick in 1999 but since then our additional ruck stocks have been atrocious. From McKee to Richards to Bryan to Wood, we have been totally deficient in our ruck recruiting. Watching the game last night all I could see were the Geeling rucks continuing to outmuscle our ruckmen. Even Mark Blake looked bigger and stronger and more mobile than our 2 battlers (if you can even call them that). Moreover Bryan and Wood do not take contested marks around the ground consistently or particularly up forward. Finally they both repeatedly take wrong options. It hurts me to say it but I think that Carlton has a much better rucking group with Kreuzer, Hampson, Jacobs, and Cloke, both actual and potential. We will never win a flag until we get some decents rucks. Right now that looks a fair way off. Oh for a Len Thompsn, or a Damian Monkorst or a Peter Moore or even Graham "Jerker" Jenkin right now.
 
daicos21 said:
I'm not talking about yesterdays game, after all almost the hole team was shite last night. My opinion is that what he brings to the plate(grunt,mongrel etc) is not enough. The majority of our fans, if given the chance to play would die for collingwood,let alone play with mongrel.Does this mean we should be getting a game?
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Maxwell, obviously has enough to get rookie listed and then promoted. To say he doesnt have enough ability is clearly wrong. Its just that I think you are so used to Bucks and Burns who had grunt and a fair bit of talent.

It may come that he doesnt warrant a place in the team, and then we do have a problem. But I dont think that is the case just yet. The powers that be obviously didnt think that to be a problem or would be a problem a few months ago. I guess we will have to wait and see. But lets not underestimate what he does bring to the table in terms of leadership to the playing group. They obviously hold him in high regard and I guess that is the most important ingredient.
 
daicos21 said:
Easy sweetheart.You got me there, i ain't nowhere near man enough to be provoking people over the net.
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Plympic stand pocket every week..36 and swan on my jumper
 
FuManchu said:
you are not allowed to argue with Col or any one of his 9 contrived alter egos he uses when he wants to abuse you, but retain some form of anonymity. He knows nothing about the game, so he has glib one line put downs to make you argue at a shallow level to match his understanding of the game.
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Those alter egos aren't Col. They belong to someone else who is also a staunch Eddie/MM supporter.
 

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FuManchu said:
Maxwell, obviously has enough to get rookie listed and then promoted. To say he doesnt have enough ability is clearly wrong. Its just that I think you are so used to Bucks and Burns who had grunt and a fair bit of talent.

It may come that he doesnt warrant a place in the team, and then we do have a problem. But I dont think that is the case just yet. The powers that be obviously didnt think that to be a problem or would be a problem a few months ago. I guess we will have to wait and see. But lets not underestimate what he does bring to the table in terms of leadership to the playing group. They obviously hold him in high regard and I guess that is the most important ingredient.
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Bloody Hear! Hear!
Even though we disagree on some things I am finding more and more we do agree on.
Adversity and bad press always brings out the true supporters and separates the wheat from the trolls.:thumbsu::thumbsu::thumbsu:
 
Pie eyed said:
Bloody Hear! Hear!
Even though we disagree on some things I am finding more and more we do agree on.
Adversity and bad press always brings out the true supporters and separates the wheat from the trolls.:thumbsu::thumbsu::thumbsu:
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You will find I sail a very steady ship. I call things as I see them, I dont get involved in the highs and lows of hysteria. I dont feel the need to rah rah rah any and everything Collingwood. That doesnt mean I dont love the club, it means that I feel mindless barracking of everything at times only serves to hold back the club, when perhaps debate and analysis is what is needed to progress the club.

Some things take time, some things can take too much time. That is the principle I work on.
 
FuManchu said:
Then one would have to ask why disguise themselves and not have the guts to put their substantive nom de plume on all their posts?

Or dont they have the courage of their own convictions?
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They aren't disguises, they're incarnations. Each one gets banned shortly after posting, but he keeps making new ones as an attention-seeking behaviour, which unfortunately we're re-inforcing now.

Ergo, back on topic please.
 

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FuManchu said:
You will find I sail a very steady ship. I call things as I see them, I dont get involved in the highs and lows of hysteria. I dont feel the need to rah rah rah any and everything Collingwood. That doesnt mean I dont love the club, it means that I feel mindless barracking of everything at times only serves to hold back the club, when perhaps debate and analysis is what is needed to progress the club.

Some things take time, some things can take too much time. That is the principle I work on.
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I totally endorse the comments of Fu Manchu. I think that we are always in need of constructive and analytical criticism. In that light I would argue that out disposal skills under pressure were totally shown up on Friday night. In addition to what I previously said about our ruck stocks (or lack of them), we will not go much further than last year unless we improve in that area as well otherwise there will be far too many turnovers.
 
daicos21 said:
Lol kido you are hilarious. But seriously kido, go out and get layed. So obvious you are a frustrated virgin.
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you go no idea.

And kiddo, ive got an od feeling we are the same age champ
 

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