Worrying trend

[Dale Gribble]

Last two weeks we have been beaten at clearances and also allowed the opposition more shots on goal despite CFC actually having more F50 entries .
Have teams figured us out? Our strength is quick ball movement and last two games the opposition have put and extra man at stoppages to stop us getting the ball out to our outside runners.
Will Ratten find a way to overcome this? This seems to me to be a challenge for our coaching staff (and players).
Also, why are we having fewer shots on goal despite having more F50 entries ? Seems we are inefficient up fwd and at the same time are letting opposition teams get shots away too easily. Slackness then at both ends.
Are these problems due to teams figuring us out and if so Ratten must respond, or, are our players just not working hard enough?
We are in the top four and that is obviously terrific but there's no doubt we have some issues, the same problems occurring two weeks straight.

Why don't we put another man at the stoppage, then they do the same and eventually one day their be 36 players all near the middle.

 

[Dale Gribble]

I also think the ruck men have done nothing to warrant being dropped and Warnock hasn't exactly forced his way into the side. We need to be consistent and yes, reward good performance (Brock), but no senior games if they haven't been earnt.

The only way I want too see Brock Mclean play is if does damage to certain key players, Kerr, Cox types. He was recruiter to be that hard nut like a Liberatore, Worsfold type who took out players legally and sometimes unlegal for the good of the side. His basic job is to just not let his opponent touch the ball or himself get many touches and just knock the living case of gun players. Every club need a player like that as long he is not chasing players. I guarantee the players of opposition teams try to take our players out legally look at what happen to Carrazzo.

 

[Silvagnis]

As for the ruckmen, they had a shocker against the Scum (as did the rest of the team). They were very solid against Freo, and if the ruck contests had been umpired correctly, would have been absolutely dominant. Should have had at least 10 free kicks, and if even a few of these were paid, the illegal holding and pushing would have been cut out. I thought Kreuzer was one of our best players.

Did Naitanui tweet about that?

There was so much wresting going, I thought Justin Madden had made a come back with Carlton. Kreuzer usually doesn't wrestle like that, but all Griffen did was grapple to stop our rucks getting the upper hand.

 

[Blue Dangerfield]

To be expected, teams were always going to go after us in the middle. We haven't played all our cards yet and probably won't bring our extra man up into the contest until later in the year.

Gibbs is an ace in the pocket. Will play mid/fwd in the second half of the year. so its important to get rusty back into form.

 

[jezzatigerbrent]

we wont look quite as good as we did in round 3 vs Collingwood until Carazzo is back..his form & strong bodied stoppage work were phenomenal in all our games inc. the NAB cup..hope we get our best 22 back for finals..& we'll fear no-one inc the swans

 

[The_Wookie]

you left out laidler. With him out we fall back to Thornton/Bower for the thrid tall matchup and that hasnt always worked out best for us.

 

[T2B_]

we wont look quite as good as we did in round 3 vs Collingwood until Carazzo is back..his form & strong bodied stoppage work were phenomenal in all our games inc. the NAB cup..hope we get our best 22 back for finals..& we'll fear no-one inc the swans

Agreed, it doesnt seem too long ago some of us were thinking he was a liability at times and his time was limited.

How wrong can one be. Now it seems he's one of our most important players. Strong tough player with great endurance who can cover an opposition mid whilst dominating in and under the packs and a handy link up player How's that for multi-tasking/versatility?

 

[gbatman]

Picked up on what the OP is saying as well. We seem to have ajusted to it against Freo by banging it forward quickly out of congestion though I am not sure our forwards set up as well as they could for this.

We have also lacked a defensive aspect in our setup at stoppages and have allowed the opposition to come out the back too easily.

 

[T2B_]

Picked up on what the OP is saying as well. We seem to have ajusted to it against Freo by banging it forward quickly out of congestion though I am not sure our forwards set up as well as they could for this.

We have also lacked a defensive aspect in our setup at stoppages and have allowed the opposition to come out the back too easily.

Definitely not. Too often we see the ball get roosted forward only to easily land in the lap of an opposition defender.

Though, against Ross Lyin's ultra flood that's to be expected I suppose, but we need to set up against it a bit better.

 

[Peete]

What I would like to see trialled.

Play Warnock AND Kreuzer at the bounces using Kreuzer as the hard body protecting Judd. The reason Kreuz wants to be a ruckman is that puts him close to the action all the time- he thrives on work load.

Kreuz is smart enough to think his way through situations and do what is necessary. Warnock taps to Kreuzer who passes to anyone he feels like. Kreuzer bumps anyonme he needs to bump to make way for Judd / Murphy in there.

Gives us a larger bodied thinking player to defend and give out - he has great hands and is quick - a rare combinatoin for such a tall.

Regardign McLean as the hared nut recruit- well it never panned out and was never going to - Brock is smaller, slower and softer than any tagger playing aginst us you care to mention - really a silly acquisition by Ratts when he was new and was given bad advice by previous coaching regime. Story over.

 

[coryne]

It would be great if we had a couple of pin point taps per game to add to the highlight reel ... yes.

How long has Cox been at this game? Our guys will get there.

On raw stats in 2012:

Cox/Natanui 28 disposals per game
Hampson/Kreuzer 21.6

Cox/Natanui 15.6 contested possessions
Hampson/Kreuzer 11.6

Cox/Natanui 76.3% disposal efficiency
Hampson/Kreuzer 72.9%

Cox/Natanui 7.2 marks
Hampson/Kreuzer 7.0

Cox/Natanui 2.6 contested marks
Hampson/Kreuzer 3.0

Cox/Natanui 43.4 hitouts
Hampson/Kreuzer 43.0

Cox/Natanui 4.8 clearances
Hampson/Kreuzer 3.6

Cox/Natanui 5.6 tackles
Hampson/Kreuzer 5.6

Cox/Natanui 5.0 1%ers
Hampson/Kreuzer 6.2

Cox/Natanui 8 goals 6 behinds
Hampson/Kreuzer 10 goals 2 behinds

Cox/Natanui 8 goal assists
Hampson/Kreuzer 4 goal assists

Cox/Natanui 292 career games (232/60)
Hampson/Kreuzer 122 career games (49/73)

Are we really so far off? Are we improving?

You forgot 1 other thing


WCE have played Bulldogs (13th), Membourne (16th), GWS (18th), Hawthorn (11th), Richmond (14th). That is basically 3 byes, 1 contest and 1 VERY good game)

Carlton have played Richmond (14th), Brisbane (12th), Collingwood (10th), Essendon (4th), Fremantle (9th). We haven't played any of the gimme games to date (GWS/Melbourne/GCS/Port) yet their stats stack up pretty well...........

 

[coryne]

Agreed, it doesnt seem too long ago some of us were thinking he was a liability at times and his time was limited.

How wrong can one be. Now it seems he's one of our most important players. Strong tough player with great endurance who can cover an opposition mid whilst dominating in and under the packs and a handy link up player How's that for multi-tasking/versatility?

That was back when he was one of our best midfielders. Now he has re-invented himself as a tagger/accumulator, knows his limitations more (eg doesn't try and be cleaver with his disposal) and plays his role.

 

[Blue since 72]

As others have stated Carrots out has, in large part, been the difference. I'd suggest he was pretty much in career best form in the first three games.

I'd like to see Gibbs brought in to take up the slack and what better time to do it than this week.

It appears Ratts is reluctant to take Gibbs out of that Backline and I understand how good he's been in that role but let's back the likes of Bower or Thornton (T-bird perhaps as he's such a good reader of the ball coming in) to play the role and get Gibbs in the middle running forward.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

You forgot 1 other thing


WCE have played Bulldogs (13th), Membourne (16th), GWS (18th), Hawthorn (11th), Richmond (14th). That is basically 3 byes, 1 contest and 1 VERY good game)

Carlton have played Richmond (14th), Brisbane (12th), Collingwood (10th), Essendon (4th), Fremantle (9th). We haven't played any of the gimme games to date (GWS/Melbourne/GCS/Port) yet their stats stack up pretty well...........

Cox and Nic Nat weren't standouts against GWS so I decided it probably wasn't relevant. Although probably only Melbourne (Jamar) have a quality ruckman out of the teams the Eagles have played whilst Brisbane (Leuenberger), Collingwood (Jolly), Essendon (Ryder/Bellchambers) and potentially Freo, had rated ruckmen when we played them.

 

[thylacine60]

ODN, any chance we can have this place a statistic free zone? We want opinion, not fact. FMD...

 

[gbatman]

As others have stated Carrots out has, in large part, been the difference. I'd suggest he was pretty much in career best form in the first three games.

I'd like to see Gibbs brought in to take up the slack and what better time to do it than this week.

It appears Ratts is reluctant to take Gibbs out of that Backline and I understand how good he's been in that role but let's back the likes of Bower or Thornton (T-bird perhaps as he's such a good reader of the ball coming in) to play the role and get Gibbs in the middle running forward.

Gibbs can NOT play on the ball. He is however very good at playing that kick behind the play role and playing half back.

If we are going to push obscure players in that onball role it aught to be Touhy or Yarran. Gibbs has been tried often and rarely succeeded, he is just not that sort of player.

 

[Stamos]

Gibbs has been tried often and rarely succeeded

You don't watch much footy, do you. Gibbs has often succeeded in the midfield. Has played his best footy through the middle and forward, but has been thrown back to fill holes for the team.

 

[Blue since 72]

Gibbs can NOT play on the ball. He is however very good at playing that kick behind the play role and playing half back.

If we are going to push obscure players in that onball role it aught to be Touhy or Yarran. Gibbs has been tried often and rarely succeeded, he is just not that sort of player.

Not this.

Maybe you've just forgotten because he doesn't get much of a go at it. He's not a 'bottom of a pack player' but then he doesn't need to be.

I'm sure TG can provide us with some video evidence.

You don't watch much footy, do you. Gibbs has often succeeded in the midfield. Has played his best footy through the middle and forward, but has been thrown back to fill holes for the team.

This.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I think Gibbs is playing through the midfield more than we realise but he reads the play well and when the heat is on, gets back to help out the defence more than he gets forward to attack. I think he is a more defensive minded mid, compared to Murph who almost always runs forward of the play. A good balance as he has the height and judgment to play that role.

 

[gbatman]

Gibbs is just a good average onballer, has played one really good game against essendon in the finals this year, was dragged from this position this year against richmond and brisbane when he wasn't getting a touch or laying any tackles or getting any clearances. Gibbs does all his best work behind the play, face it, he's not an onballer, never has been. He's a handy pinch hitter in there to gives blokes a rest and can play defensively in there but offensively doesn't offer a lot. The onball thing has been tried, there is a good reason he is not spending a majority of his game time in there like Judd, Murphy and Carrazzo do, because the coache's know he doesn't offer a lot in this position but offers heaps behind the ball and at half back. Seems many supporters are unaware of this.

 

[Stamos]

How do you use the ignore feature?

 

[The_Wookie]

Gibbs is just a good average onballer, has played one really good game against essendon in the finals this year, was dragged from this position this year against richmond and brisbane when he wasn't getting a touch or laying any tackles or getting any clearances. Gibbs does all his best work behind the play, face it, he's not an onballer, never has been. He's a handy pinch hitter in there to gives blokes a rest and can play defensively in there but offensively doesn't offer a lot. The onball thing has been tried, there is a good reason he is not spending a majority of his game time in there like Judd, Murphy and Carrazzo do, because the coache's know he doesn't offer a lot in this position but offers heaps behind the ball and at half back. Seems many supporters are unaware of this.

Thats why Hodge and Goddard spend so much time in the back half. cause they are crap in the middle. gotcha.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Gibbs is just a good average onballer, has played one really good game against essendon in the finals this year, was dragged from this position this year against richmond and brisbane when he wasn't getting a touch or laying any tackles or getting any clearances. Gibbs does all his best work behind the play, face it, he's not an onballer, never has been. He's a handy pinch hitter in there to gives blokes a rest and can play defensively in there but offensively doesn't offer a lot. The onball thing has been tried, there is a good reason he is not spending a majority of his game time in there like Judd, Murphy and Carrazzo do, because the coache's know he doesn't offer a lot in this position but offers heaps behind the ball and at half back. Seems many supporters are unaware of this.

He spends time behind the ball and at half back because he is one of our taller midfielders, has fantastic vision, can take a contested mark, can spoil and has great disposal skills. That's like suggesting that Ratten doesn't rate Yarran's ability to play other positions. Players often end up where they are needed, and it does not have to reflect their abilities in other positions.

Murphy going back ... no, Judd going back .... no. Carrazzo going back ... has been tried, mostly didn't work. Robinson going back .... not with his kick long and prosper disposal and bull at a gate style. Ellard .... no. McLean ... no. Simpson .... no.

We know midfielders have to run both ways but the facts are that of our midfield rotation, only Gibbs, Scotland and Joseph can inspire confidence back there.

Gibbs is perfectly capable of being a quality outside mid. He picks the best option, makes time and space for himself and delivers well inside 50,

 

[one_twelve112]

Is this thread about baggy jeans?

 

[Silvagnis]

Gibbs is just a good average onballer, has played one really good game against essendon in the finals this year, was dragged from this position this year against richmond and brisbane when he wasn't getting a touch or laying any tackles or getting any clearances. Gibbs does all his best work behind the play, face it, he's not an onballer, never has been. He's a handy pinch hitter in there to gives blokes a rest and can play defensively in there but offensively doesn't offer a lot. The onball thing has been tried, there is a good reason he is not spending a majority of his game time in there like Judd, Murphy and Carrazzo do, because the coache's know he doesn't offer a lot in this position but offers heaps behind the ball and at half back. Seems many supporters are unaware of this.

Who was BOG against Norf with four goals playing forward-midfield?

Love that supporters still cling to the 20th century notion of a midfielder being a player who starts at stoppages for four quarters. Using that argument, Murphy isn't a great midfielder. Marc wins his own ball at clearances and goes when he has to, yet he is no Ratten, Williams or Fraser Brown at the coal face. Smurf's best feature is running hard with the ball and delivering due to Judd, Curnow, Carrazzo and Robinson doing the grunt work. Harder than Campo, but both are/were better runners and kicks than in and under mids.

Even Dustin Martin is more forward-midfield after he pushes up into the middle and plays forward.

Soft in the centre

Dustin Martin, while a thumping and damaging kick out of the centre square traffic, remains a less-than-elite endurance runner, unable to go with the likes of a Chris Judd or Marc Murphy for long enough.

Says one opposition strategist, whose club is yet to play the Tigers but is, you sense, eagerly awaiting the opportunity: “He's so damaging with those 60-metre roosts on the run out of the square. The problem is because he's not an elite runner, he's almost becoming a forward who can play in the midfield rather than a mid who can play forward, because he just can't cover the territory often enough.

Soft in the centre

PS. Ratten was a back pocket before moving into the midfield in his 23rd year.