Worst list in the AFL at present?

[freddy mercury]

Essendon. Nothing but vanilla

 

[lewdogs]

St Kilda is a peculiar case. They currently have the list capable of playing finals as they have a lot of mature aged players. In fact, their best 22 is pretty old. It is similar to Geelong but they really don't have much quality in terms of 23 and under. Max King is an obvious choice but other than that, not much coming through.
If they cannot capitalize in the next 2 years, they will drop right away again.

We have one player on our list over 30 (Campbell) and he's not even in our best 22, so how you come to the conclusion you have that our best 22 is old and similar in age to Geelong is completely beyond me.

Might be best to fact check your own posts in future. It's fairly easy to google.

 

[Yoda_]

I dont know about worst list, but most overrated goes by a country mile to Hawthorn. You can talk all you want about potential, future premiership side, outstanding junior talent all you want but what counts is on the scoreboard, and this Hawks team scoreboard say that they have done jack-s**t. If potential meant anything, Gold Coast and GWS would be going for their sixth premiership between them this year. Same goes for their coach - has a gilded tongue but has put jack-s**t on the scoreboard. At least the likes of West Coast, North, Essendon, even St Kilda are somewhat less deluded about their respective teams.

on Bigfooty it is better to be young than good. And Hawthorn have this idea that they will be good because they are young.

 

[Obeanie1]

2014 - Liam Duggan was the last 1st rounder you have developed into an AFL player. Yes, you won a flag in 2018 but it was not due to the 1st round drafting from 2015-2017. Since then you have traded or blown your 1st rounders, not including the last 2 season which are too early to tell but they are currently on zero games.

That is a gaping hole in the list and the main reason you are currently so bad. It'll get worse as your stars retire and take years to rectify, even if you nail the next 3 drafts.

You Purples can dream all you like.

There is a gapping hole in Freo's forward line that wont get sorted next season either. Cant score enough and lost their best tall forward.

Eagles are rebuilding no arguments there. But lets not pretend they are starting at ground zero.

The kids 21 and under include Culley, L Edwards, Chesser, Hough, Basso, J Williams, Winder, Trew, Jamison, Ginbey, Hewett, Barnett, Burgeil, Long, Baker and Dewar. Thats 16. Another 7 will come in the 23 draft, a strong draft. Some nice talent to develop there.


Then the 21 to 25 year olds include Oscar Allen, B Williams, Waterman, Clark, West, Petrucelle, O'Neil, H Edwards, J Jones, Foley, SPS and Witherden. 12.

28 players under 25.

26 to 27 Barrass, Kelly, Duggan, Cole, Hunt and Ryan. Good players, Barrass and Ryan match winners. Four Premieship players and Hunt an emergency in the 2021 GF.

This is the age group where the Eagles are short on and the perfect age group to look a FA's role players like Hunt that dont cost picks. Expect a couple more to be added inthe next two FA periods, Eagles have big cash being freed up in the next two seasons. A couple of cheap trades for decent role players will help, you Purples should know how that works.

So lets not pretend the Eagles are devoid of youth or quality players. And I havent bothered with any players 28 and older.

Add another 7 draftees in 12 months and a FA and there is another 8.

Looking forward to watching the next gen of kids to show what they are made of.

 

[WillHayward]

I know it might be hard to read something before you write it

But thats what I said

only 3 were best 22/played significant football last season

Yeah I know but "only 3" feels like a bit of a dilution of the reality.
3 mature good players gone.
It's a big hole to fill.
I realise u brought 3 in (Meek, Stephens, Amon).
So maybe ur right.
Stepehens remains an unknown.
If Stephens and Amon have good seasons then ur probably in a very good position.

 

[tonygeeks]

Not surprising some real rose coloured glasses when looking at your own list huh [emoji304]

For the record the Eagles second rounders in that same time
2021: Brady Hough, Rhett Bazzo
2018: Xavier O'Neill, Luke Foley, Bailey Williams
2017: Oscar Allen, Liam Ryan, Brayden Ainsworth, Jack Petrucelle
2016: Josh Rotham
2015: Luke Partington, Tom Cole
2014: Tom Lamb

A gun in Oscar Allen
An All Australian and premiership player in Liam Ryan
A premiership player in Tom Cole and best 22 defender

Rotham, Petrucelle, O'Neill, Foley and Williams all still on the list and can clear your very low bar of playing an average amount of games to be worthwhile picks.

Hough and Bazzo both had good rookie seasons in a poor side and showed good glimpses.

Rest duds

So by your own low standards, Eagles second round record is as good as your mob.

We just haven't had multiple first round picks generated by low finishes, and players leaving due to a poor culture to cover that record like Freo has.

Lol your mate is counting Allen and Ryan in his list of first rounders

If your happy with that pile of crap good for you

 

[Rob R]

Herald Sun has ranked the teams using Champion Data for depth (number of Top 30 players by position) , its credibility is pretty low because it is the Hun and the data somehow says Sam Reid is the 9th best forward in the game but here is the list.

Brisbane (17)
Geelong, Carlton (15)
Melbourne, Sydney, Ess (14)
Fremantle, Richmond, STK, Nth (12)
GWS (10)
Collingwood, WB, Port, GC, Haw, Adl (9)
WC (8)

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-2023-champion-data-breaks-down-each-clubs-list-to-rank-its-depth-across-every-position/news-story/8905409db3f6c3f4ab0556510350230f?amp&nk=ae93be8fd54c3c282b99f11aa8d43978-1672947833

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

on Bigfooty it is better to be young than good. And Hawthorn have this idea that they will be good because they are young.

What rubbish.

Hawthorn won 8 games in 2022 despite injuries to some of best young players like Jiath, Lewis, Reeves and Day, and have lost 3 players from our best 22 who were all over 29.

17 players in the top 25 of our B&F were under 25. The youth is developing well.

Hawthorn supporters “have this idea” that our youth is being ignored by casual opposition supporters.

 

[Yoda_]

What rubbish.

Hawthorn won 8 games in 2022 despite injuries to some of best young players like Jiath, Lewis, Reeves and Day, and have lost 3 players from our best 22 who were all over 29.

17 players in the top 25 of our B&F were under 25. The youth is developing well.

Hawthorn supporters “have this idea” that our youth is being ignored by casual opposition supporters.

you are trying to convince yourself that because you are young you will be good. Once you get this diluted idea out of your head it will be easier to comprehend.


As we have discussed over multiple threads now, losing Mitchell(21 games) and O'Meara (21 games) + Gunston (16 games) is going to really hamper your ability to win the ball in key areas.


The youth at Hawthorn is being rightfully ignored, none are particularly standing out, Newcombe the only 22under22 player selected in the squad.


You are not fooling anyone with the popostrous stats of how young you are, you lost a bunch of experience and it looks like very little coming in to replace these key pieces so we (non Hawthorn supporters) are not buying the premise that you are instantly going to get better again.

 

[kane249]

Lol your mate is counting Allen and Ryan in his list of first rounders

If your happy with that pile of crap good for you

Reading skills working wonders for you

Here’s how we spent our first rounders since drafting Duggan up until 2021;

2018 - Swapped with Gold Coast and ended up with Oscar Allen, Liam Ryan and Jack Petrucelle

It was never said they were first rounders, just what we got for that years first rounder genius.

Again though, funny how you can put your rose coloured glasses on and give pass marks to spuds like Blakely and Tucker when it suits.

 

[Obeanie1]

Throw the 2nd rounders in too so everyone can have a look at the recent draft form of the bloke you are betting your rebuild on

Absolute trash

Stop being a flog.

Trash is a valid description of Freo's ability to build a premiership list. Never happened yet has it!

How many times have the Eagles done it?

Now have 6 or 7 very promising youngsters to develop with more to come from a strong draft this year 2023.

Love how trolls ignore the Oscar Allen's, Liam Ryan, Hough and Basso types who are great gets in the 2nd rounds.

At least we don't draft many 1st rounders who up and leave just as they are coming good.

 

[Obeanie1]

Lol your mate is counting Allen and Ryan in his list of first rounders

If your happy with that pile of crap good for you

If Freo had Oscar Allen and Ryan they might just kick enough goals to contend.

Both would be Freo's best forwards today.

Feel free to name two better forwards at Freo.

Then we can all have a chuckle.

 

[VicBased]

2014 - Liam Duggan was the last 1st rounder you have developed into an AFL player. Yes, you won a flag in 2018 but it was not due to the 1st round drafting from 2015-2017. Since then you have traded or blown your 1st rounders, not including the last 2 season which are too early to tell but they are currently on zero games.

That is a gaping hole in the list and the main reason you are currently so bad. It'll get worse as your stars retire and take years to rectify, even if you nail the next 3 drafts.

I personally think we will surprise a few .

 

[Obeanie1]

I personally think we will surprise a few .

Tends to happen when the Eagles are written off.

Teams don't rate them. Media doesn't either.

The players ego's get checked and people stop pumping them up. And the players then realise they have to work their arses off because they aren't as good as what they think.

Last two seasons their ego's have been checked. Quite a few playing for careers. And that is agood thing.

Let's see how fit they come back because the last two seasons hasn't been AFL standard. Whips are cracking that's for certain.

 

[bh90210fan]

Lol your mate is counting Allen and Ryan in his list of first rounders

If your happy with that pile of crap good for you

The claim was we burned all our first rounders from 2015 - 2020

Don’t think too many would say swapping pick 23 in ‘18 for Allen, Ryan and Petrucelle could be considered burning anything.

 

[kane249]

If Freo had Oscar Allen and Ryan they might just kick enough goals to contend.

Both would be Freo's best forwards today.

Feel free to name two better forwards at Freo.

Then we can all have a chuckle.

Fremantle 2022 leading goal kicker Rory Lo... Oh wait

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

you are trying to convince yourself that because you are young you will be good. Once you get this diluted idea out of your head it will be easier to comprehend.

Again, utter trash. I’ve never said we will be good.
I’ve said I am extremely content with our list, and our rebuild.

As we have discussed over multiple threads now, losing Mitchell(21 games) and O'Meara (21 games) + Gunston (16 games) is going to really hamper your ability to win the ball in key areas.

It may, it may not. Mitchell and O’meara were limited in their midfield work by design in 2022, and there’s still more growth in Newcombe, Maginness, Ward, Nash and Stephens as well as the return of Worpel from injury.
It’s super easy to say ‘you lost two players from the middle and no one can replace them’, but it’s equally pretty daft when we have so many mids in growth looking to cement their spot.

The youth at Hawthorn is being rightfully ignored, none are particularly standing out, Newcombe the only 22under22 player selected in the squad.

8 games won by the 3rd youngest list in the comp even with injuries to some of our best youth, with 17 of the top 25 in our B&F being under 25, but they should be ignored… because they don’t stand out enough to be voted into a fan voted 22.

You are not fooling anyone with the popostrous stats of how young you are, you lost a bunch of experience and it looks like very little coming in to replace these key pieces so we (non Hawthorn supporters) are not buying the premise that you are instantly going to get better again.

No one has said we’re going to be instantly better, you dill.
Basic facts of our list demographic and performance are not “popostrous” stats, it’s the reality of where our list sat in 2022, and where our list was building.

 

[My Tilly]

We have one player on our list over 30 (Campbell) and he's not even in our best 22, so how you come to the conclusion you have that our best 22 is old and similar in age to Geelong is completely beyond me.

Might be best to fact check your own posts in future. It's fairly easy to google.

I just think your list needs to make the most of things in 2023 before they die a hopelessly irrelevant death.
Guys like Hill, Ross, Crouch, Membrey are not going to be playing at a high level for much longer. Blokes like Wood & Webster can be replaced but if Saints can't do anything this year, they are in a world of hurt.

 

[VinnieB]

Considering the list demographic I'd say yes. And with belief that the young players will continue moving forward with an upward trajectory.

It's been done to death, but Sam Mitchell and Mark McKenzie laid out a list rebuild plan and it's not currently factoring in multiple drafts from this point on. They are very happy with the current group and what it can achieve over the next 5-10 years. Of course that may depend on how they all perform in 2023 however.

I can't see how this is any different to every other club.

What's frightening here is that Sydney has better young talent and played off in a GF.
Doggies have much more exciting and better kids and playing finals footy.

The list goes on. What these clubs also have are strong senior leaders, who you could argue, may help these kids reach higher highs.

 

[Yoda_]

Again, utter trash. I’ve never said we will be good.
I’ve said I am extremely content with our list, and our rebuild.


It may, it may not. Mitchell and O’meara were limited in their midfield work by design in 2022, and there’s still more growth in Newcombe, Maginness, Ward, Nash and Stephens as well as the return of Worpel from injury.
It’s super easy to say ‘you lost two players from the middle and no one can replace them’, but it’s equally pretty daft when we have so many mids in growth looking to cement their spot.


8 games won by the 3rd youngest list in the comp even with injuries to some of our best youth, with 17 of the top 25 in our B&F being under 25, but they should be ignored… because they don’t stand out enough to be voted into a fan voted 22.


No one has said we’re going to be instantly better, you dill.
Basic facts of our list demographic and performance are not “popostrous” stats, it’s the reality of where our list sat in 2022, and where our list was building.

tl;dr

ill summarise, the only ones thinking Hawthorn won't be near or at the bottom are Hawthorn supporters

Gotcha

 

[lewdogs]

I just think your list needs to make the most of things in 2023 before they die a hopelessly irrelevant death.
Guys like Hill, Ross, Crouch, Membrey are not going to be playing at a high level for much longer. Blokes like Wood & Webster can be replaced but if Saints can't do anything this year, they are in a world of hurt.

I think that's a fairly strange take, but regardless what you actually said was our best 22 is similar in age to Geelong's which is simply untrue.

If you think the players you mentioned all hitting 30 in the next year or two is going to send our list into oblivion then you're right, we are in trouble.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

tl;dr

ill summarise, the only ones thinking Hawthorn won't be near or at the bottom are Hawthorn supporters

Gotcha

Nope, not surprisingly you still don’t get it.

Hawthorn supporter haven’t said that and are completely open to being near the bottom, but once again you’ll just make out that Hawk fans are saying the opposite, so whatever.

 

[My Tilly]

I think that's a fairly strange take, but regardless what you actually said was our best 22 is similar in age to Geelong's which is simply untrue.

If you think the players you mentioned all hitting 30 in the next year or two is going to send our list into oblivion then you're right, we are in trouble.

What quality have you got coming through?
King is a star but most teams have a gun forward who is young and just as talented as King.
St Kilda's best players are already in the middle of their careers.

Take Fremantle for example, guys like Darcy, Serong, Brayshaw are already leaders and among their best players. They are 24 and under. Carlton have a couple of players in a similar position. Collingwood likewise.

Melbourne is not a young team anymore and the bulk of their best players are aged 26-28 and they have finals experience and a premiership to show for it. St Kilda is such as devastating tragic club. They let their fans down time and time again. If they manage to win a flag in the next couple years, great, I seriously doubt they make top four in the coming years though.

 

[Blackhawk42]

I can't see how this is any different to every other club.

What's frightening here is that Sydney has better young talent and played off in a GF.
Doggies have much more exciting and better kids and playing finals footy.

The list goes on. What these clubs also have are strong senior leaders, who you could argue, may help these kids reach higher highs.

It isn't any different. I just see no reason (yet) to doubt what Sam Mitchell can achieve as coach with the group he's putting together.

I'm currently optimistic due to the positive signs we saw in 2022.

 

[Yoda_]

Yeah I know but "only 3" feels like a bit of a dilution of the reality.
3 mature good players gone.
It's a big hole to fill.
I realise u brought 3 in (Meek, Stephens, Amon).
So maybe ur right.
Stepehens remains an unknown.
If Stephens and Amon have good seasons then ur probably in a very good position.

one player finished 5th in said clubs b&f, another finished 7th in said clubs b&f and the other finished 3rd in said clubs goal kicking so definitely some big shoes to fill.