Would a Richmond Premiership in 2022 make the team one of the best of all time?

[Falcon3518]

Scores aren't 40% less than they were back then though, and that's the difference between Lynch and Riewoldt's goal tallies during the premiership years. Lynch also played as full back for decent chunks of his career.

For someone that likes to point out that a player's prime doesn't line up with the premiership years, I'd argue Riewoldt was in his prime for Richmond's first premiership and probably past it for their second and third.

I agree re Martin, but you'd consider him as predominately a midfielder for this comparison, not a forward. Without Martin in the midfield, there's is a severe lack of "top end" talent in the Richmond midfield. There's one time All-Australian (from 5 years prior) Trent Cotchin and that's about it; talk about lacking stars across a line.

Also quick thing idk where you got 40% from, it’s 25% and that’s not taking into account the COVID affected year that was 25% shorter. So it’s really only 15-20% less.


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[SuperSub17]

It’s actually unbelievable how you still don’t understand my comments and you quoted them lol

2000 Bombers and 80s Hawks both played in the 1v1 era. Even if you said bombers had a tiny system advantage. Imo it isn’t enough to outweigh the talent on the list 80s hawks list.

I said TAKE SYSTEMS INTO ACCOUNT, if talent still outweighs it the older team is better like the 80s hawks. My god. That’s the 50th time I’ve had to repeat myself.


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You can repeat yourself all you like, it doesn’t make you right.

Essendon 2000 was probably the most dominant season in league history. So no, you’re not going to convince people that many teams would beat them. 80s Hawks achieved more for sure - they sustained their run for much longer - but their peak wasn’t as brilliant. I’m not sure how that’s even remotely up for discussion.

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

Also quick thing idk where you got 40% from, it’s 25% and that’s not taking into account the COVID affected year that was 25% shorter. So it’s really only 15-20% less.


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Getting interesting. Is the 25% the difference between average scores between 2 eras? What were the eras, and what were the average scores please?

 

[Fadge]

You can repeat yourself all you like, it doesn’t make you right.

Essendon 2000 was probably the most dominant season in league history. So no, you’re not going to convince people that many teams would beat them. 80s Hawks achieved more for sure - they sustained their run for much longer - but their peak wasn’t as brilliant. I’m not sure how that’s even remotely up for discussion.

Just another minor difference - players in the 80's trained 3 times a week and had other full-time jobs; By 2000, playing AFL was a full-time job whereby players were remunerated accordingly.

 

[SuperSub17]

Just another minor difference - players in the 80's trained 3 times a week and had other full-time jobs; By 2000, playing AFL was a full-time job whereby players were remunerated accordingly.

But but they still played 1 on 1 like cavemen

 

[Falcon3518]

You can repeat yourself all you like, it doesn’t make you right.

Essendon 2000 was probably the most dominant season in league history. So no, you’re not going to convince people that many teams would beat them. 80s Hawks achieved more for sure - they sustained their run for much longer - but their peak wasn’t as brilliant. I’m not sure how that’s even remotely up for discussion.

Ok I’ll switch them around then. You think I care?


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[Falcon3518]

Getting interesting. Is the 25% the difference between average scores between 2 eras? What were the eras, and what were the average scores please?

Those averages were lynch v jacks goal kicking not era average. If you wanna work out the era average pick the years you want and compare them. Answers differ every year.


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[Falcon3518]

Just another minor difference - players in the 80's trained 3 times a week and had other full-time jobs; By 2000, playing AFL was a full-time job whereby players were remunerated accordingly.

Yep, 3 times per week. No way near good enough to compete with full time athletes


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[FreddyTwoShoes]

Those averages were lynch v jacks goal kicking not era average. If you wanna work out the era average pick the years you want and compare them. Answers differ every year.


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If you're talking about their premiership seasons, I think you've undersold Lynch somewhat

 

[Falcon3518]

If you're talking about their premiership seasons, I think you've undersold Lynch somewhat

View attachment 1459675

You not gonna include his 70 goal 2018 Coleman in your goal averages? If you take into account Riewoldt wasn’t our primary forward in 19/20as well I’m not underselling anything. 17-20 was our team 18 is included.


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[FreddyTwoShoes]

You not gonna include his 70 goal 2018 Coleman in your goal averages? If you take into account Riewoldt wasn’t our primary forward in 19/20as well I’m not underselling anything. 17-20 was our team 18 is included.


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Oh, we're including non-premiership years? It's sure hard to keep up with the parameters here.

But sure, including 2018, he's still only 71% as a percentage of Alistair Lynch's premiership period.

Here's the workings (as opposed to the guessings):

 

[Falcon3518]

Oh, we're including non-premiership years? It's sure hard to keep up with the parameters here.

But sure, including 2018, he's still only 71% as a percentage of Alistair Lynch's premiership period.

Here's the workings (as opposed to the guessings):
View attachment 1459707

Your calcs are wrong. You are including finals, those goal totals are only for H&A


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[FreddyTwoShoes]

Your calcs are wrong. You are including finals, those goal totals are only for H&A


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Are you sure about that? Are you saying Jack kicked more than 70 in 2018?

 

[Falcon3518]

Are you sure about that? Are you saying Jack kicked more than 70 in 2018?

Where are you getting 23 & 24 games from? Only 22 in H&A max.

EDIT: Nevermind I see what you’ve done. They are total goals including finals.

But yeah now take into account Jack playing second fiddle to lynch which dropped his scoring by like 1/3 and team defence, it’s not close.




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[FreddyTwoShoes]

Where are you getting 23 & 24 games from? Only 22 in H&A max.


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Why are you excluding finals from an analysis of their performance?

 

[Falcon3518]

Why are you excluding finals from an analysis of their performance?

Nah my bad I didn’t realise, read my edited previous post.


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[FreddyTwoShoes]

Nah my bad I didn’t realise, read my edited previous post.


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No worries.

re your 'edit' though, no - I won't factor in "playing second fiddle" and "team defence", as I'm unable to measure those. If you have an algorithm to establish either as measurable factors, I'm keen to listen. But I'm not interested in any more made-up numbers. Cool?

Edit: I'm very happy for the debate. Just less than happy to hear opinions framed as facts.

 

[CharacterFirst]

I reckon Richmond might struggle to win it this year.

Pretty tough road ahead.

Has any team won it all from 10th place before?

 

[Danw0w]

Oh, we're including non-premiership years? It's sure hard to keep up with the parameters here.

But sure, including 2018, he's still only 71% as a percentage of Alistair Lynch's premiership period.

Here's the workings (as opposed to the guessings):
View attachment 1459707

Now scale it based on team score.

 

[Falcon3518]

No worries.

re your 'edit' though, no - I won't factor in "playing second fiddle" and "team defence", as I'm unable to measure those. If you have an algorithm to establish either as measurable factors, I'm keen to listen. But I'm not interested in any more made-up numbers. Cool?

Edit: I'm very happy for the debate. Just less than happy to hear opinions framed as facts.

Fair enough, but people say stuff about GAS only playing FF later in his career so he would’ve kicked more goals if he was FF for all of his career. I agree with that so I’m only being consistent with Jack. Is think that’s pretty fair tbh.


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[Falcon3518]

I reckon Richmond might struggle to win it this year.

Pretty tough road ahead.

Has any team won it all from 10th place before?

We’ll make finals then beat the pies in the EF, book it in. Then we’ll crash


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[FreddyTwoShoes]

Now scale it based on team score.

Absolutely. If you provide the relevant team scores (league averages over those premiership years?), I’m happy to incorporate them.

And I’ll remember to adjust that result for the shorter game times of 2020 of course.

 

[The 747]

Well guess this thread is moot.

 

[gouki88]

Ever heard the saying champion team would beat a team of champions? As far as teams go with players playing their roles, tigers are head and shoulders above the rest.

Do you have absolutely anything to back that up?

 

[dean33]

Do you have absolutely anything to back that up?