Would footy be better without national expansion?

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I have nothing against the VFL expanding to Sydney and Brisbane and then Perth and Adelaide, this isn't some dumb hur hur VFL bitching.

This is mostly directed toward West Australians and South Australians.

Now, although my interest is waning in footy due to to the fact it's just so devoid of excitement, intensity, and intrigue and there are constant floggings and every team feels the same with about three clear rungs of sides, I have thought about this before. As much as I enjoyed being the opposition, wearing the purple, getting cheeky pricks making comments, all this, I've quite often wished I followed a club of history and lineage and where, although I'm third generation Freo, it's not proper third generation. It's cool to know your family have always done that same ritual you are, and you're just another one passing through.

Not getting into the politics or issues with Gold Coast and GWS, but there's clear issues in Tasmanian footy where no one is getting drafted, these historical clubs are all folding, and the development and pathways are cactus because there's no money or professionalism in the admin.

In WA, I grew up and a trip to the footy used to get other kids jealous – kids who were into footy and were middle class enough simply had never been to the AFL before. It's not that unique. The cost was so prohibitive and experience so unenjoyable at Subi, a generation has grown up following the footy but not actually going to games. It's a bit wrong.

Crowds and money is important but there's a divide in Victoria where no matter how good the opposition side is or the match-up looks, interstate sides don't garner the same attention that Hawthorn v St Kilda or Richmond v Bullies would.

Not to mention fundamental issues with some teams rarely leaving Melbourne and others travelling a minimum three hours every second week, then there's the Grand Final (it should always be at the MCG – I agree with that, but it's hard for clubs out of Vic).

The draft is a hot one as well, with expansion clubs given academies and poaching guys like John Blakey's son. The idea of being from a certain area and probably going for the nearest club but knowing that you're going to play juniors then seniors there is a cool thing; quaint, novel, but it's a cool thing. It'd help foster relationships to specific areas and it gives each club a rightful identity and feel. Not to mention the fact it'd force clubs to develop well.

All in all, is the game just too attached and based on regionality to succeed?

I like the idea of bringing back zones and scrapping the draft but it's just so obvious that the WA and SA clubs will be dominant that it's not really ever going to get up.

Naturally if the VFL didn't expand, we wouldn't have three ultra professional and crisp leagues, but that's probably a good thing. Do we need this much media attention and whoring when the end result is Lingy acting like a handball was the most amazing thing he's ever seen, like a double head transplant or man on the moon? If we had three leagues they'd probably all be at a similar level to the A-League or NRL. But is that so bad? Does it make a better standard game if the players get 80k a year as opposed to three or four times that? Is there anything wrong with having a Winners type show and keeping up that way, or one league trying to go toward the TV model and playing weekday games so people all over the country can watch?

Those who follow the Crows, Eagles, and Dockers... do you wish you could still follow a local club, probably the one your family went for?

The more and more I think about it, the more I'd love the idea of going down to a sunny Freo Oval or cold Leederville and watching a game of footy for 20 bucks, with connection and relevance. And how much worse could the standard really be?
 

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Fremantle football club represents a long history of football in the Fremantle region.

South Fremantle Football club still plays at Fremantle oval in the WAFL, if you want to watch footy at Freo oval on your weekends, you still can.
Thanks bra I know. Not the point though is it.
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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I have nothing against the VFL expanding to Sydney and Brisbane and then Perth and Adelaide, this isn't some dumb hur hur VFL bitching.

This is mostly directed toward West Australians and South Australians.

Now, although my interest is waning in footy due to to the fact it's just so devoid of excitement, intensity, and intrigue and there are constant floggings and every team feels the same with about three clear rungs of sides, I have thought about this before. As much as I enjoyed being the opposition, wearing the purple, getting cheeky pricks making comments, all this, I've quite often wished I followed a club of history and lineage and where, although I'm third generation Freo, it's not proper third generation. It's cool to know your family have always done that same ritual you are, and you're just another one passing through.

Not getting into the politics or issues with Gold Coast and GWS, but there's clear issues in Tasmanian footy where no one is getting drafted, these historical clubs are all folding, and the development and pathways are cactus because there's no money or professionalism in the admin.

In WA, I grew up and a trip to the footy used to get other kids jealous – kids who were into footy and were middle class enough simply had never been to the AFL before. It's not that unique. The cost was so prohibitive and experience so unenjoyable at Subi, a generation has grown up following the footy but not actually going to games. It's a bit wrong.

Crowds and money is important but there's a divide in Victoria where no matter how good the opposition side is or the match-up looks, interstate sides don't garner the same attention that Hawthorn v St Kilda or Richmond v Bullies would.

Not to mention fundamental issues with some teams rarely leaving Melbourne and others travelling a minimum three hours every second week, then there's the Grand Final (it should always be at the MCG – I agree with that, but it's hard for clubs out of Vic).

The draft is a hot one as well, with expansion clubs given academies and poaching guys like John Blakey's son. The idea of being from a certain area and probably going for the nearest club but knowing that you're going to play juniors then seniors there is a cool thing; quaint, novel, but it's a cool thing. It'd help foster relationships to specific areas and it gives each club a rightful identity and feel. Not to mention the fact it'd force clubs to develop well.

All in all, is the game just too attached and based on regionality to succeed?

I like the idea of bringing back zones and scrapping the draft but it's just so obvious that the WA and SA clubs will be dominant that it's not really ever going to get up.

Naturally if the VFL didn't expand, we wouldn't have three ultra professional and crisp leagues, but that's probably a good thing. Do we need this much media attention and whoring when the end result is Lingy acting like a handball was the most amazing thing he's ever seen, like a double head transplant or man on the moon? If we had three leagues they'd probably all be at a similar level to the A-League or NRL. But is that so bad? Does it make a better standard game if the players get 80k a year as opposed to three or four times that? Is there anything wrong with having a Winners type show and keeping up that way, or one league trying to go toward the TV model and playing weekday games so people all over the country can watch?

Those who follow the Crows, Eagles, and Dockers... do you wish you could still follow a local club, probably the one your family went for?

The more and more I think about it, the more I'd love the idea of going down to a sunny Freo Oval or cold Leederville and watching a game of footy for 20 bucks, with connection and relevance. And how much worse could the standard really be?
:DIf you lived in civilization you go down to Spotless with $25 and watch AFL, and a NEAFL curtain raiser.

:(I think with modern communications you cant just turn back the clock back to dominant local competitions.
 

Shoei

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#10
I have nothing against the VFL expanding to Sydney and Brisbane and then Perth and Adelaide, this isn't some dumb hur hur VFL bitching.

This is mostly directed toward West Australians and South Australians.

Now, although my interest is waning in footy due to to the fact it's just so devoid of excitement, intensity, and intrigue and there are constant floggings and every team feels the same with about three clear rungs of sides, I have thought about this before. As much as I enjoyed being the opposition, wearing the purple, getting cheeky pricks making comments, all this, I've quite often wished I followed a club of history and lineage and where, although I'm third generation Freo, it's not proper third generation. It's cool to know your family have always done that same ritual you are, and you're just another one passing through.

Not getting into the politics or issues with Gold Coast and GWS, but there's clear issues in Tasmanian footy where no one is getting drafted, these historical clubs are all folding, and the development and pathways are cactus because there's no money or professionalism in the admin.

In WA, I grew up and a trip to the footy used to get other kids jealous – kids who were into footy and were middle class enough simply had never been to the AFL before. It's not that unique. The cost was so prohibitive and experience so unenjoyable at Subi, a generation has grown up following the footy but not actually going to games. It's a bit wrong.

Crowds and money is important but there's a divide in Victoria where no matter how good the opposition side is or the match-up looks, interstate sides don't garner the same attention that Hawthorn v St Kilda or Richmond v Bullies would.

Not to mention fundamental issues with some teams rarely leaving Melbourne and others travelling a minimum three hours every second week, then there's the Grand Final (it should always be at the MCG – I agree with that, but it's hard for clubs out of Vic).

The draft is a hot one as well, with expansion clubs given academies and poaching guys like John Blakey's son. The idea of being from a certain area and probably going for the nearest club but knowing that you're going to play juniors then seniors there is a cool thing; quaint, novel, but it's a cool thing. It'd help foster relationships to specific areas and it gives each club a rightful identity and feel. Not to mention the fact it'd force clubs to develop well.

All in all, is the game just too attached and based on regionality to succeed?

I like the idea of bringing back zones and scrapping the draft but it's just so obvious that the WA and SA clubs will be dominant that it's not really ever going to get up.

Naturally if the VFL didn't expand, we wouldn't have three ultra professional and crisp leagues, but that's probably a good thing. Do we need this much media attention and whoring when the end result is Lingy acting like a handball was the most amazing thing he's ever seen, like a double head transplant or man on the moon? If we had three leagues they'd probably all be at a similar level to the A-League or NRL. But is that so bad? Does it make a better standard game if the players get 80k a year as opposed to three or four times that? Is there anything wrong with having a Winners type show and keeping up that way, or one league trying to go toward the TV model and playing weekday games so people all over the country can watch?

Those who follow the Crows, Eagles, and Dockers... do you wish you could still follow a local club, probably the one your family went for?

The more and more I think about it, the more I'd love the idea of going down to a sunny Freo Oval or cold Leederville and watching a game of footy for 20 bucks, with connection and relevance. And how much worse could the standard really be?
It's like you don't know what led to the creation of the AFL?

Short story -

3 State Leagues - The one with the most money sucked the best talent out of the other two
League with the most money - games were followed nationally somewhat with a Winners type show
favourable zoning in one league + buying best players from other leagues - created a super team that dominated the 80's
buying best players from other leagues - created an unsustainable arms race that virtually bankrupted the league
AFL created - National interest and money sustains the league we have now.

The worst AFL teams would comfortably pump the best WAFL/SANFL/VFL clubs currently. The difference in standard is Professionals vs Semi Professionals/amateurs - not just the players but the teams themselves.

You still have the choice of going to sunny freo oval or cold Leederville but you don't because you want to watch the best. That's why virtually no one else does either.
 

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#13
Fremantle football club represents a long history of football in the Fremantle region.

South Fremantle Football club still plays at Fremantle oval in the WAFL, if you want to watch footy at Freo oval on your weekends, you still can.
So taking that onboard...

They hired a claremont coach and half the players (exact percentage escapes me) from claremont.

The only association they had with Freo was the name.
 

Tas

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#16
I have nothing against the VFL expanding to Sydney and Brisbane and then Perth and Adelaide, this isn't some dumb hur hur VFL bitching.

This is mostly directed toward West Australians and South Australians.

Now, although my interest is waning in footy due to to the fact it's just so devoid of excitement, intensity, and intrigue and there are constant floggings and every team feels the same with about three clear rungs of sides, I have thought about this before. As much as I enjoyed being the opposition, wearing the purple, getting cheeky pricks making comments, all this, I've quite often wished I followed a club of history and lineage and where, although I'm third generation Freo, it's not proper third generation. It's cool to know your family have always done that same ritual you are, and you're just another one passing through.
Every club and supporter base had to start somewhere, sure you don't get to enjoy a long history in the AFL but you create the foundations for future supporters.

Not getting into the politics or issues with Gold Coast and GWS, but there's clear issues in Tasmanian footy where no one is getting drafted, these historical clubs are all folding, and the development and pathways are cactus because there's no money or professionalism in the admin.
Tasmania had some lean years, but their academy TAC team won the academy championships and will form a significant part of the allies team. The problem with AFL in Tasmania is AFL Tasmania primarily, they forced change that wasn't popular, tha Tasmanian economy being cactus isn't helping as most lower tier comps rely a lot on corporate sponsorship paying the majority of the costs, I think Tasmanian team rely too much on local support for funding and when the crowds drop off they can't generate enough money.

The solutions are internal, not external.

In WA, I grew up and a trip to the footy used to get other kids jealous – kids who were into footy and were middle class enough simply had never been to the AFL before. It's not that unique. The cost was so prohibitive and experience so unenjoyable at Subi, a generation has grown up following the footy but not actually going to games. It's a bit wrong.
The problem with the WA & SA model is their licenses are seen as money producing investments for the state leagues, even the new stadium, they could have built a larger stadium and had cheaper prices and room for growth, but they are more interested in making money than servicing their supporters. The WA model works a bit better than the SA model as the league doesn't take too much money from the AFL teams when they aren't going too well.

Crowds and money is important but there's a divide in Victoria where no matter how good the opposition side is or the match-up looks, interstate sides don't garner the same attention that Hawthorn v St Kilda or Richmond v Bullies would.
You mean in the media? Media care about ratings, it determines how much their advertising is worth, they do talk about non-Vic teams but they know it isn't going to make money in Victoria if they neglect the teams with larger supporter bases here. It is why the Storm gets almost zero coverage here in Melbourne, just doesn't generate enough views.

Not to mention fundamental issues with some teams rarely leaving Melbourne and others travelling a minimum three hours every second week, then there's the Grand Final (it should always be at the MCG – I agree with that, but it's hard for clubs out of Vic).
That was an issue before there were any interstate teams. For all the interstate moaning that they only get to play on the MCG twice, we only play there once this year. It is a big advantage to play there when all the big finals are there, however, it isn't much of a home ground advantage when so many other clubs are tenants there as well.

The draft is a hot one as well, with expansion clubs given academies and poaching guys like John Blakey's son.
I think father son should be abolished and the AFL should invest more in grass roots development and run all the academies and put all the talent into the draft.

I am more than fine with the Blakey family not wanting to establish a legacy at North Melbourne, I am just not thrilled that the AFL makes the rules up on the fly.

The idea of being from a certain area and probably going for the nearest club but knowing that you're going to play juniors then seniors there is a cool thing; quaint, novel, but it's a cool thing. It'd help foster relationships to specific areas and it gives each club a rightful identity and feel. Not to mention the fact it'd force clubs to develop well.
I don't think clubs should develop grass roots talent, it is always going to be a recruitment scheme first, a player development scheme second.

All in all, is the game just too attached and based on regionality to succeed?
I don't think so, it wasn't long ago the majority of our players were from interstate. I think Eagles and Port recruit a lot of Victorians. If your club is a good place to be, you limit the go home factor.

I like the idea of bringing back zones and scrapping the draft but it's just so obvious that the WA and SA clubs will be dominant that it's not really ever going to get up.
Zones were scrapped after North, Hawthorn and Richmond were allocated country zones that were exceptionally strong and led to in a short period of time dominating the competition, the draft is intended to spread the talent as much as humanly possible. Zones make it impossible to control how much talent enters a particular club.

Naturally if the VFL didn't expand, we wouldn't have three ultra professional and crisp leagues, but that's probably a good thing. Do we need this much media attention and whoring when the end result is Lingy acting like a handball was the most amazing thing he's ever seen, like a double head transplant or man on the moon? If we had three leagues they'd probably all be at a similar level to the A-League or NRL. But is that so bad? Does it make a better standard game if the players get 80k a year as opposed to three or four times that? Is there anything wrong with having a Winners type show and keeping up that way, or one league trying to go toward the TV model and playing weekday games so people all over the country can watch?
If the VFL didn't expand then the basis for the AFL would have been the SANFL or the WAFL with a number of Victorian clubs sold licences. In the end, too much talent comes form Victoria, half the AFL players come from Victoria, if there 4 vic AFL clubs they would all sit in the top 4 permanently and the competition would be even worse than it is now, diluting the talent produced here is the only real way that it has become an even competition with ample opportunity for interstate clubs to succeed.

Those who follow the Crows, Eagles, and Dockers... do you wish you could still follow a local club, probably the one your family went for?

The more and more I think about it, the more I'd love the idea of going down to a sunny Freo Oval or cold Leederville and watching a game of footy for 20 bucks, with connection and relevance. And how much worse could the standard really be?
The second and third tier comps still exist and I enjoy watching those games from time to time, there just is a massive difference in standard.
 

Roobs321

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#20
I think this post has merit, but realistically clubs have to start their history somewhere, and a lot of sports fans have multiple clubs they follow, some with more history than others. My dad follows a team his parents didn't follow, and my mum didn't grow up in AFL territory, so I guess I have a more independent-minded context in terms of choosing clubs. I've been a passionate Eagle since '95, and I've never been to an Eagles home game.

The regional leagues, as well as the women's competitions, are still out there for those weekend feels. I do empathise with the difficulty some WA kids might have in seeing a top-league game, I think in NSW/ACT and QLD we have it very lucky in that respect, you can mostly rock up and get a solid seat.

I grew up in an area south of Sydney where soccer was the dominant local sport, the local town clubs and school rep sides were generally soccer-first, so that's my "local" idea of going to the football.
 
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Move to the gold coast like i did.
Have some kids and start taking them to the footy so they become the next generation of fans for the suns. We and GWS are not going to disappear...
I’m not one for bagging out other places generally and have lived in and enjoyed 5 states in my life, but I cannot fathom why anyone would want to live on the Gold Coast!?
 

Billy ray

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#23
I’m not one for bagging out other places generally and have lived in and enjoyed 5 states in my life, but I cannot fathom why anyone would want to live on the Gold Coast!?
I presume you think of high rises, surfers paradise and schoolies and theme parks yeh? Locals dont do that shit. Thats for tourists
 
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I presume you think of high rises, surfers paradise and schoolies and theme parks yeh? Locals dont do that shit. Thats for tourists
It’s just I’ve been there twice and have found it to be generally very artificial in its construct, filled with wankers bars, tacky shops, and wouldbeiftheycouldbes. It’s like a failed attempt at recreating Santa Barbara. Both times I’ve wondered why people live there when there is truly glorious towns within 300kms north and south of it...

Anyways no offence intended, if you enjoy it then more power to you.
 
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