Would you continue your support of the club if we bottomed out for 3 years?

What level of support would you offer the club if we went down the development path for 3 years?

  • I'd continue my financial support of the club through my membership

    Votes: 84 86.6%
  • I'd stop supporting the club financially but would remain a fan

    Votes: 7 7.2%
  • I'd stop following the club entirely

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • I'd begin financially supporting the club by becoming a member

    Votes: 5 5.2%

  • Total voters
    97
  • This poll will close: .

HTPunter

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If we were to contend in the present, we needed significantly more output from our 100+ game players. Outside of the dinosaurs we have Ziebell 193 games, Cunnington 192, Atley 181, Macmillan 144, Wright 133, Tarrant 131, Williams 105, Brown 104, McDonald 100. Most of our leaders are in this group, but they don't really lead the team on-field. They sometimes play well, other times not so well, but they really aren't the foundations to build a premiership campaign over 5 years on and I question the judgement of the club trying to load up.
I look at that list and I'd say there's 4 I don't put up for trade.

Why the **** not. Ziebell, Atley, Macmillan, Wright, McDonald are a large part of the side that has half a dozen times "defied expectations" with a mediocre 8-10th place in the last decade. None of those 5 are going to be the foundation of a flag side, I agree, and adding Hall and Tyson just adds to the wound (a lesser extent Polec and Pittard).

Tarrant, Brown structural importance even when not in form. Cunnington a proper star. Williams speed is important. So we don't put those 4 up for trade.
 

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HTPunter

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Finally, I don't fathom how so many fans can actually believe that our senior players are actually all good as the fans believe.

Ziebell, Cunnington, Atley, Macmillan, Wright, Tarrant, Williams, Brown, McDonald, Goldstein, Thompson, Higgins have had 'ownership' of this side for the last 3 or so years - ever since we had the chunk of Boomer, Petrie, Wells, Dal Santo, Firrito, Swallow, Thomas, Hansen, Gibson all go/get phased out.

If they were any good we'd be doing better than 8th with a flogging in finals, 15th, 'defying expectations' 9th, 1-4 in the past 3 and a bit years.
Yes there was some cross-over in those years (i.e. Gibson playing 22 games in 2017) but the first 12 have largely been consistent parts of the side for a while now.

The ladder positions clearly prove that they aren't as strong as fans want to believe. Any idea that a new coach would somehow get the largely mediocre list of players there winning finals needs a reality check.

That group is 21-37 since the bye in 2016. Add in that there have been other senior players in the side at stages since then (the chunk that went at the end of 2016, Jacobs, Daw at times and both have been on the list long enough to be senior players in 2017-2018, Waite for probably half the games, Hall, Pittard, Polec this year).
 

ferball

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Finally, I don't fathom how so many fans can actually believe that our senior players are actually all good as the fans believe.

Ziebell, Cunnington, Atley, Macmillan, Wright, Tarrant, Williams, Brown, McDonald, Goldstein, Thompson, Higgins have had 'ownership' of this side for the last 3 or so years - ever since we had the chunk of Boomer, Petrie, Wells, Dal Santo, Firrito, Swallow, Thomas, Hansen, Gibson all go/get phased out.

If they were any good we'd be doing better than 8th with a flogging in finals, 15th, 'defying expectations' 9th, 1-4 in the past 3 and a bit years.
Yes there was some cross-over in those years (i.e. Gibson playing 22 games in 2017) but the first 12 have largely been consistent parts of the side for a while now.

The ladder positions clearly prove that they aren't as strong as fans want to believe. Any idea that a new coach would somehow get the largely mediocre list of players there winning finals needs a reality check.

That group is 21-37 since the bye in 2016. Add in that there have been other senior players in the side at stages since then (the chunk that went at the end of 2016, Jacobs, Daw at times and both have been on the list long enough to be senior players in 2017-2018, Waite for probably half the games, Hall, Pittard, Polec this year).
Since all those players left we've had two seasons - 15th in one and then 9th in the next.

That's it.

Its 2 and a bit years with the players you mention. We had 6 wins in the first year and 12 in the next.

I don't think that supports what you are saying.
 

HTPunter

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Since all those players left we've had two seasons - 15th in one and then 9th in the next.

That's it.

Its 2 and a bit years with the players you mention. We had 6 wins in the first year and 12 in the next.

I don't think that supports what you are saying.
WTF?

The players were all there in 2016 too.

Except with extra help. I'd argue 2016 they started to 'take over' the side.
And even with Harvey, Petrie, Waite, Wells, Dal Santo, Gibson, Firrito, Thomas, Swallow as their secondaries the best they could manage was being flogged in an elimination final. Oh but that's right Ben Jacobs was out.

And yeah I guess if you ignore 2019 then it doesn't support my view as much...but I'm not ignoring 2019.

So ok we remove 2016: a 15th, 9th, and on-track for a bottom 4...doesn't support my view? That the senior players aren't the A-graders they are made out to be?

With a decent secondary line-up they eeked out an 8th place and an embarrassing flogging.

With kids at their side they've gone 19-30 (2017-2019).
 

ferball

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You were talking about ownership of the side since the 2016 season.

Look there are some fair points there.

Ziebell for example has had opportunities to own games and stamp some real authority on the comp last year and at times this year and he didn't take them, I'd credit that. If he'd kicked straight we may have played finals last year and he'd have goal kicking results that put him in the top 15 goal kickers last year. Goldy is patchy at best these days. Atley is playing well so far this year but can't seem to do it for a full season yet. Sammy Wright is struggling to play and JMac is shitful this year. They aren't the best players. But no one is really saying they are. I'm defending Luke McDonald a bit but I don't think he is a star. Just no where near as bad as people make out.

Its fair that there have been many times when those players haven't owned situations and that failure is the difference between us playing excellent footy and missing finals. Its not that i don't agree with you about that.

Williams isn't a star but he is a hard nosed defender who is very hard to beat in a contest - that is a massive asset. Taz, Brown and Thompson are three excellent KPPs. Cunnington and Higgins (despite being a little off this year) are very good players as well. All of those players have taken games on in the last 2 seasons.

But this comp is even, no side has a dominant list and simple things can make a huge difference between making, then winning finals and missing them.
 
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