Would you continue your support of the club if we bottomed out for 3 years?

[Roogal]

I've supported them through thick and thin and will continue to into the future.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Depends on why we bottomed out. Any hint of it being a "tank" or anything of the sort, and I'm not sure I could follow through that.
If its just because we're s**t, like right now, I'll stick through it.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Depends on why we bottomed out. Any hint of it being a "tank" or anything of the sort, and I'm not sure I could follow through that.
If its just because we're s**t, like right now, I'll stick through it.

Oddly, I think this is the opposite of the view this thread is trying to promote.

 

[Engimal v3]

Absulutely i would. Have done so since late 70s. But as others have said i dont know what my resolve would be like having not witnessed greig cable blight allison carey krackours dench mckernan etc....

On SM-N9005 using BigFooty.com mobile app

I feel as if I'm in this boat. Born in the late 90s, but too young to remember 96/99.

Grew up in the 2000s, where (aside from 07) there was little to look forward to. Got another glimpse in 2014/2015, but it was gone as soon as it came.

I'm coming up 23 years old and I'm still yet to see my club actually make any impact to the competition in my lifetime. 20 years of mediocrity.

 

[Moti]

Team doesn't need to "bottom out" as such. There are some good building blocks but we need a coaching overhaul to give us a fresh look at our players and hopefully a fresh team to trot out on the weekends. If we bottom out then we really haven't done the job well.

 

[Roo182]

The club would have to do something pretty goddamn horrendous for me to cancel my membership. I'm almost at 20 years and don't consider being bad at footy for a little while a reason to cancel.

Example: relocation to the gold coast might have done it for me (as the gold coast is a souless void) but I could tolerate a Tasmania move if it ever happened.

 

[Tas]

I think the major problem is the club is, at best, looking to win a Bradbury flag like the Dogs did a few years ago, they won the flag and their team kind of fell apart after that.

Ideally, you want to create a "window" so when you first break into the top 8 then the vast majority of your core group has 5 good years in them so if you have setbacks or disappointments you still have a decent chance at success.

We picked up NDS after 2013, after finishing 10 wins/10th spot, and the following year picked up Higgins and Waite via free agency, finished 6th with 14 wins in 2014 (annihilated by Swans due to "fatigue") and 8th in 2015 with 13 wins (had a decent finals campaign), then finished 8th in 2016 with 12 wins and got annihilated by Crows in the EF.

Rather than look forward and attempt to create an era around the Cunnington/Ziebell prime we went for a hail mary with the twilight Boomer/Wells/Petrie era, our foundations weren't solid enough and we topped up, played a lot of mature aged stodge and despite a promising period of youth development early in Brad's time, we abandoned it for an unlikely shot at success.

Don't get me wrong, I love Higgins and Waite, but the timing was bad for us as a club and from the outside looking in, nobody thought we were a realistic shot at success. We started to adopt an ultra negative style of play from the attacking youth game plan and the development of a lot of younger players flatlined during this period. We just kept ending up with really average first round picks and it undermined the lows we had just prior to Brad's arrival and his early years. We were decent at producing average players but we weren't very good at getting the most out of our talented players and one by one pushed anyone with the attacking flair out of the club.

In 3 years Thompson, Higgins, Goldstein, Tarrant, Wright, Hall, Ziebell, Daw, Pittard, Cunnington, Macmillan, Campbell, Jacobs, Atley, Polec and Brown will either be gone or on their last legs and the current 100 game group isn't good enough to lead the team to success. We have to concede that the hail mary has done substantial damage to our list and put us in an average holding pattern unless something changes strategically. Getting players like Tyson, Hall, Polec, Campbell wallpaper over the cracks somewhat. If we got players like Kelly and Gaff then perhaps we could have had a chance at a Bradbury but we didn't and seemed to pressure ourselves into getting players to have a crack but our foundations are still poor.

We had the opportunity to convert our first round pick into two late first round picks (WCE had 2 late first rounders and Geelong wanted a top 10 pick for Kelly), first round picks could have been converted into a couple of second rounders each. We could have got a second round pick for Preuss (shouldn't have lost him in the first place). Thomas would have cost 2 of the picks, we probably could have had 3 or 4 more shots in the second round of what was anticipated to be a very strong draft (we were ecstatic getting Taylor in the 3rd round).

I think we still have something very solid to build with, Dumont 23, Ahern 22, Simpkin 21, Xerri 20, Walker 20, Larkey 20, LDU 19, McKay 21, Durdin 22 and picking up Thomas, Taylor and Scott in this draft, I think if we added 3-4 more very good prospects to this group last year and still picked up Hall for free to help us be competitive in the short-term then you can buy sucking arse if we are getting quality development into the younger players and over the next 2 or 3 years get some more A-grade talent so we have a super strong 18-26 group and we just keep enough of the mature aged players to form the core mature aged leadership group.

It just isn't possible to have a strong core playing group plus depth plus develop a lot of talent for the future, there just isn't enough room on lists. Outside of a handful of mature players, the bulk are far too inconsistent or have too low a ceiling on skill, when everyone is prepared to work at 100% in terms of intensity and aggression we make up for a lot of our flaws, however, we can't sustain that effort and we don't have enough class or skill to fall back on.

We owe it to the players we draft and recruit to give them as much chance for success so there is meaning to their careers, we have just condemned too many loyal players to a career of unfulfilled promises due to bad decision making and poor execution from top to bottom and that needs to change if we are going be more than mediocre.

 

[Psicosis]

We need access to higher quality young talent. We also need a coaching & development system that allows this talent to prosper.

If 3 years at the bottom of the ladder is required for us to do this, then bring it on.

I'm sick of sitting midtable with a list that noone rates.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Nailed it Tas.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Themanbun]

Me personally? Of course. If it's directionless though, I'd be incredibly dissatisfied.

Can the club afford that?

I don't know. We are heading into an economic recession. Football game attendance is a luxury for most families. With wallets tightening, it may not be the time for a 4-5 win per season stint, and I'm not convinced that that's the only way forward.

 

[The acurate one]

Strange thread this one;

In 2018 we finished equal ninth for points and 4% off twelfth. Also one game and 25% out of the eight. So not as close as we think.

2017-equal 15th for points and 12% off 17th.

So looking how we're going now, I'd suggest a bottom four finish in 2019 at best.

So 2019- ??th
2018- 9th- 12th %
2017 15th- 17th %

Reckon we're well into our three years on the bottom, we just haven't realised it

 

[Roogal]

I feel as if I'm in this boat. Born in the late 90s, but too young to remember 96/99.

Grew up in the 2000s, where (aside from 07) there was little to look forward to. Got another glimpse in 2014/2015, but it was gone as soon as it came.

I'm coming up 23 years old and I'm still yet to see my club actually make any impact to the competition in my lifetime. 20 years of mediocrity.

I've never forgotten the sublimeness of the 75 Premiership because it was our first. The 77 Premiership because it was won in a re-play and of course it was against Collingwood. The 96 GF was oh-so-sweet because it was won against a backdrop of the AFL merging and shifting teams and we were directly in their sights. We won the GF and it shut them down.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Reckon we're well into our three years on the bottom, we just haven't realised it

Tarrant, Ziebell, Goldstein and Higgins have all had dips in form. Cunnington is 28 and has been smashing in for a decade. Thompson can't keep going.

LDU, Walker, Thomas, Scott are a mile off.

The middle group is not strong. Brown yes, Anderson probably, but Dumont, McDonald, Polec, Turner, Atley aren't carrying a team.

I think a bottoming out is coming, and it may be a chance to bring in that core group that will sustain a run (that Tas was talking about) and not try and jag a prelim final spot to get thumped in.

 

[ferball]

Strange thread this one;

In 2018 we finished equal ninth for points and 4% off twelfth. Also one game and 25% out of the eight. So not as close as we think.

2017-equal 15th for points and 12% off 17th.

So looking how we're going now, I'd suggest a bottom four finish in 2019 at best.

So 2019- ??th
2018- 9th- 12th %
2017 15th- 17th %

Reckon we're well into our three years on the bottom, we just haven't realised it

So Brad will manage a flag in his last year?

 

[Themanbun]

Not sure where to put this. But I really don't think our list is as devoid of talent as we think it is.

We have 4 top 5 draft picks on our list:

Ben Cunnington (star)
LDU (promising)
Jared Polec (very good player)
Dom Tyson (honestly, who knows)

We have 4 players taken picks 6-10

Jack Ziebell (been a good mid-sized forward)
Luke McDonald (regressed)
Paul Ahern (lots of potential, regressing)
Tarryn Thomas (lots of potential)

We have 4 players taken picks 11-15

Shaun Higgins (star)
Taylor Garner (perpetually injured)
Jy Simpkin (talented, regressing)
Robbie Tarrant (star)

We have 4 players taken picks 16-20

Ben Jacobs (Paul Roos calls him "North's most important player", injured)
Jasper Pittard (proving very handy)
Shaun Atley (hasn't fulfilled his potential, but is a very handy player)
Durdin (injured)

And we have made a decent habit of finding good players late in the draft (some through trade deals):

Ben Brown (star)
Majak Daw (showed his talent last season)
Marley Williams (solid defender)
Trent Dumont (looking to be a really consistent midfielder)
Jed Anderson (super important)
Todd Goldstein (best ruck in the comp at one stage)
Jamie Macmillan (has been solid for us over the years, his performances arguable, though)
Aaron Hall (talented)
Mason Wood (highly talented)
Ed Vickers-Willis (inexperienced, but important, perpetually injured)
Bailey Scott (looks to be a player)

_____

While it's not the best list in the competition, and it certainly has some holes (lack of a second key forward among them), I really don't think this list is as bad as people say. There's a lot of guys who we have drafted from the 6-20 pick range who haven't developed as much as we need them to. Given what we are seeing happening to Paul Ahern before our own eyes, I'd say that in a different coaching setup we'd probably get a bit more out of most players.

Given we're looking at a low finish this year, if we do turnover the coaching staff, I'm confident that it won't be too long before we're right back up in contention. If we can get a little bit more out of our pick 6-20 type talent, continue to develop our later draft talents (i.e. Brown, Dumont, Anderson, etc.), all of a sudden our team looks a whole lot better.

Long story short: the talent is there, we are just proving inept at developing it with the current setup. A changeover of personnel might see us back in contention a lot earlier than we thought.

 

[Orange Peanut]

The middle group is not strong. Brown yes, Anderson probably, but Dumont, McDonald, Polec, Turner, Atley aren't carrying a team.

But that's the thing Funky. These guys have only ever had one coach. These guys are the reason i wanted a new coach 2 years ago. They might actually be good and there's still time in their careers!

 

[Kangapirate]

I’m a sucker for supporting teams that have either folded (North Melbourne Giants in the nbl), become irrelevant (South Melbourne fc after the demise of the national soccer league) and this middle of the road mob, granted I can’t complain as I saw plenty of success as a kid in the 90s.

I’m happy to keep following if we bottom out as long as 1) Brad Scott isnt there, 2) I see total commitment towards the rebuild, would be kinda fun seeing top end draft picks develop.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

But that's the thing Funky. These guys have only ever had one coach. These guys are the reason i wanted a new coach 2 years ago. They might actually be good and there's still time in their careers!

I hope you're right.

 

[ferball]

Jack Ziebell (been a good mid-sized forward)
Luke McDonald (regressed)
Paul Ahern (lots of potential, regressing)
Tarryn Thomas (lots of potential)

I don't think Luke McDonald has regressed. He had one poor season after being top 5 in the B&F and has been excellent at locking down his opponents at times this season. One poor season is something that happens top a lot of players and how he responds this year will determine where he is at for mine.

And I don't see how anyone can say Paul Ahern has regressed after one poor game. And I don't think Jy has either. His stat line was improving till the end of last year and he's had a few poor games but his marking has actually improved this year, he had 8 against Adelaide and until the last game was showing a steady improvement in other areas. He's played 40 games, which is about where Froggy was at the start of last year and Trent went from what we thought was an average player to a very good one over the course of last season.

I'm not having a go at you but I think you're buying into something that isn't true.

We've all got the shits with how the year is going. Sometimes situations like that cause us to frame things in a less positive manner than they would have in better circumstances. Its easy to look at a side and think "those players should be there" on the basis of just wanting them to be successful. Its also easy to think the should be better and its something wrong with how the club develops them cos these <50 gamers aren't playing like Ablett or Dangerfield.

 

[Istanbul Roo]

My son (16 years old), when queried by a friend about changing alliance to a good team, said that he was a North supporter and would never change just for the wins.
As for bottoming out for three seasons, I'd prefer to limp along in ninth with some stirring victories here and there than three years of being beaten for a rise up the ladder later.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

You don't deserve to enjoy success if you can't support your club in the lower times.

Have a friend who jumps off his club every time they go through a rough stretch and it sickens me.

 

[Themanbun]

I don't think Luke McDonald has regressed. He had one poor season after being top 5 in the B&F and has been excellent at locking down his opponents at times this season. One poor season is something that happens top a lot of players and how he responds this year will determine where he is at for mine.

And I don't see how anyone can say Paul Ahern has regressed after one poor game. And I don't think Jy has either. His stat line was improving till the end of last year and he's had a few poor games but his marking has actually improved this year, he had 8 against Adelaide and until the last game was showing a steady improvement in other areas. He's played 40 games, which is about where Froggy was at the start of last year and Trent went from what we thought was an average player to a very good one over the course of last season.

I'm not having a go at you but I think you're buying into something that isn't true.

We've all got the shits with how the year is going. Sometimes situations like that cause us to frame things in a less positive manner than they would have in better circumstances. Its easy to look at a side and think "those players should be there" on the basis of just wanting them to be successful. Its also easy to think the should be better and its something wrong with how the club develops them cos these <50 gamers aren't playing like Ablett or Dangerfield.

1. A poor season after a very good season is the definition of regression.
2. It's the *way* Paul has played since his return. It's different, it's lesser than usual, and it's notable.
3. Fair call re: Jy, but I believe I've observed him lose a desire to take the game on and show a bit of cheek.

" Its also easy to think the should be better and its something wrong with how the club develops them cos these <50 gamers aren't playing like Ablett or Dangerfield."

I'm not expecting them to be playing like Ablett or Dangerfield and never stated that.

Re: "easy to buy into" narratives - I think it's an easy cop out to suggest our list is **** and we need to bottom out for three years in order to threaten the best teams. That's an easy to buy narrative that my post is written to contest.

 

[B4Bear]

I love the club; but between the current administration and the idiots at AFL House, I can barely be bothered to watch a game these days.

 

[shinboner magic]

I've never forgotten the sublimeness of the 75 Premiership because it was our first. The 77 Premiership because it was won in a re-play and of course it was against Collingwood. The 96 GF was oh-so-sweet because it was won against a backdrop of the AFL merging and shifting teams and we were directly in their sights. We won the GF and it shut them down.

Don’t rub it in - lol

Of course I’d stick by the club.
It’s what we need to give it a serious shake.

Think we will lose fans and it shows even on here where senior fans are so disillusioned with the club at the moment

 

[HTPunter]

Obviously I would. We all should. Otherwise we run the risk of losing the club entirely.

The key point I make, however, is that while my support of the club is unwavering, if I believe someone at the club isn't the best thing for the club (i.e. Brad Scott as coach, Jack Ziebell as captain, Aaron Hall and Luke McDonald as regular best 22 players etc) then I'll say as such and it is not a reflection on my 'support'. I couldn't give a * who coaches or captains or plays in our next flag - it's the club I support. Coaches and players come and go. Scott isn't the man to coach us to our next flag. So he can * off.

(on that note, I'd still do everything I can for the club but if we spend 3 years bottoming out under Scott it's going to be an agonising era with no light at the tunnel).