WTC Final 2025

[DaRick]

That depends. Rabada at his best has been better. He still boasts a strike rate clearly superior to Bumrah. What he doesn’t do as well as Bumrah as tie batsmen down and basically make it impossible for them to score; he goes for 0.6 runs per over more, hence his average is about 3 higher than Bumrah’s.

Rabada was at his best before his mid-2018 back injury, when he had the pace (and reverse swing) to blitz through sides on flat decks with the older ball.

He's still world-class, but he doesn't quite have that ability anymore. He's more reliant on the new ball than he once was.

So I think Bumrah's eclipsed him in sheer skill.

That said, he took a 5-fer at Lords back in 2022, so that may not matter.

Agree that this being a one-off in a place like Lords gives SA their best chance at an upset.

 

[DaRick]

Understand this is the same squad for the Caribbean tour. Gotta say typical 'jobs for the old boys' policy from Mac and George. Why not use the tour to blood at least one emerging bowler, say Fergus O'Neil who has just come off a successful county stint or a fit Lance Morris who would have ruffled some Windies feathers with his sheer pace.

Aren't there doubts about Fergus O'Neill's pace at the highest level?

I've only seen snippets of Morris, but he seems like a slower version of Brett Lee (bowling 145 km/h rather than 150 km/h+, pretty skiddy, pretty orthodox action). He also doesn't get a huge amount of movement.

 

[PhatBoy]

Rabada was at his best before his mid-2018 back injury, when he had the pace (and reverse swing) to blitz through sides on flat decks with the older ball.

He's still world-class, but he doesn't quite have that ability anymore. He's more reliant on the new ball than he once was.

So I think Bumrah's eclipsed him in sheer skill.

That said, he took a 5-fer at Lords back in 2022, so that may not matter.

Agree that this being a one-off in a place like Lords gives SA their best chance at an upset.

Bumrah has been the best in the world of late, no argument there, and as far as the weapons in his arsenal goes Rabada may have never been, and may never be, as dangerous as he was right at the start when he was consistently genuinely quick and it did allow him to be a bit more incisive even when there wasn’t much happening.

But three of his best 4 years statistically have been in the last 4:

23 wickets at 19
20 wickets at 17.10
34 wickets at 19.94

Married around the 47 at 22.26 he took in 2022, his last 27 tests have brought him 130 wickets at 20.5 and a strike rate of 40.6

It’s not a bad lull to have in your career

 

[Westend]

Looking forward to Webbie and Greenie in the cordon

we will only need both of them in there ...there combined wingspan will cover the entire cordon ..free up other fielders for other roles

 

[DaRick]

Bumrah has been the best in the world of late, no argument there, and as far as the weapons in his arsenal goes Rabada may have never been, and may never be, as dangerous as he was right at the start when he was consistently genuinely quick and it did allow him to be a bit more incisive even when there wasn’t much happening.

But three of his best 4 years statistically have been in the last 4:

23 wickets at 19
20 wickets at 17.10
34 wickets at 19.94

Married around the 47 at 22.26 he took in 2022, his last 27 tests have brought him 130 wickets at 20.5 and a strike rate of 40.6

It’s not a bad lull to have in your career

True, and his performance in BAN was brilliant (although the 1st Test deck was surprisingly pace-friendly).

But bowling in SA has helped him a lot. He averages 20 at home and 25 away (very good, but world-beating?).

 

[PhatBoy]

True, and his performance in BAN was brilliant (although the 1st Test deck was surprisingly pace-friendly).

But bowling in SA has helped him a lot. He averages 20 at home and 25 away (very good, but world-beating?).

Not to labour the point too much but considering the records of most of the ‘greats’ of the millenium I don’t think I need to really say a lot.

Anderson? Everyone is across that. Same with Broad.

Bumrah is an accepted freak who may well be in the best bowlers of all time by the end of his career. Steyn is already in that bracket. Cummins has a great record everywhere.

Again, Rabada’s brilliance lies not so much in his average - which it’s worth remembering is better away from home than the likes of Courtney Walsh’s overall average for example, or is 1 run worse than Waqar Younis’ overall record, etc etc - but his strike rate, which is a ‘lowly’ 46 away from home.

So Mitchell Starc’s strike rate, which is his strength as a bowler, is 49.

Rabada’s relative ’weakness’ - bowling away from SA - sees him take wickets 3 balls quicker. At an average 2.5 runs lower.


Of the 39 players in history to take 300 test wickets, of which Rabada is one, his ‘away’ average, would rank him 17th out of all those players’ career averages.

Of those 39, his away strike rate would slot in 4th. Behind himself, Steyn and Waqar Younis, and just ahead of Malcolm Marshall and Alan Donald. It’s still an incredibly impressive record and for large chunks of the second half of that career, it’s been done with next to no runs on the board to back it up.

 

[BGman]

The 'ALBATROSS' Cameron Green strikes again. This follows his f/i century and before his 67* to lead home his county team. Gotta say it got a bit hairy with those late wickets and one tailender playing and missing while Green looked on hoping he'd give him the strike to complete the job.

 

[BGman]

has passed 100 in one first class match

Two first class 100s. His double tons in that early Shield game. Have a feeling he also tonned up in a CA game? Konstas is still a baby in cricket terms, a baby who has broken records at all his cricket levels. This kid is no flash in the pan just ask his past coaches. He still tho needs plenty of work on his temperament and I would be giving him another shield season to do that before having him play any more Test cricket.

 

[PhatBoy]

Two first class 100s. His double tons in that early Shield game. Have a feeling he also tonned up in a CA game? Konstas is still a baby in cricket terms, a baby who has broken records at all his cricket levels. This kid is no flash in the pan just ask his past coaches. He still tho needs plenty of work on his temperament and I would be giving him another shield season to do that before having him play any more Test cricket.

Hence I said he’s passed 100 in one first class game. Hes literally done it in one game.

I don’t doubt that he has talent. No one that gets to Test cricket or first class cricket doesn’t. Shai Hope has more talent than half the players I’ve ever seen that average 45 at test level. Hope averages 25 and I hope he never plays another test match. Ability has a very minimal role to play once you get to senior level.

 

[Freezin]

You answered your own question - there’s 6 of them which increases their odds, plus their general level of success has been better.

Would think that is countered, by there being more than one good quick coming at SA top 6....time will tell I guess.....pretty sure Labuschagne has had better success than SA top 6....and Rabada will eat him alive.....God knows what Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood /Boland will do to SA top 6 then

 

[PhatBoy]

Would think that is countered, by there being more than one good quick coming at SA top 6....time will tell I guess.....pretty sure Labuschagne has had better success than SA top 6....and Rabada will eat him alive.....God knows what Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood /Boland will do to SA top 6 then

Labushagne on paper >>> Temba Bavuma.

Labushagne since Jan 2022: averaging 38
Bavuma since Jan 2022: averaging 49

So yeah, might not be just be as simple as that (those averages drift further apart if you bring the dates further forward).

Players like Stubbs have come in and done well, Bedingham has done ok. Smith is the only player IMO who gives Australia just a locked and loaded advantage.

there’s also more than one good quick coming at the Australian team too, it’s worth noting.

 

[DaRick]

Labushagne on paper >>> Temba Bavuma.

Labushagne since Jan 2022: averaging 38
Bavuma since Jan 2022: averaging 49

So yeah, might not be just be as simple as that (those averages drift further apart if you bring the dates further forward).

Players like Stubbs have come in and done well, Bedingham has done ok. Smith is the only player IMO who gives Australia just a locked and loaded advantage.

there’s also more than one good quick coming at the Australian team too, it’s worth noting.

Lyon > Maharaj on anything that isn't a turner.

Maharaj is definitely capable, but IMO his average is a bit flattering. Lacks Lyon's all-round threat, and struggles when targeted.

 

[PhatBoy]

Lyon > Maharaj on anything that isn't a turner.

Maharaj is definitely capable, but IMO his average is a bit flattering. Lacks Lyon's all-round threat, and struggles when targeted.

I think Lyon is the better bowler, you don’t get 600 wickets if you aren’t extremely good, but Maharaj has averaged under 31 in every nation he’s bowled in except, ironically, India, and Australia - and he’s only played a combined 7 matches in the two nations. He’s been absolutely towelled up in both, but for a guy who’s based in SA he can’t have done much more to prove that he can bowl.

Five-fors in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, NZ (twice), the West Indies, 21 wickets at 29 in England, and 6 five-fors in SA. He’s done his job.

 

[Freezin]

Labushagne on paper >>> Temba Bavuma.

Labushagne since Jan 2022: averaging 38
Bavuma since Jan 2022: averaging 49

So yeah, might not be just be as simple as that (those averages drift further apart if you bring the dates further forward).

Players like Stubbs have come in and done well, Bedingham has done ok. Smith is the only player IMO who gives Australia just a locked and loaded advantage.

there’s also more than one good quick coming at the Australian team too, it’s worth noting.

Not sure averaging 33 is considered doing well in the top 6, but hard to decipher after 9 tests...as for Bavuma....after 60 tests, Bavuma has done well of late to drag his sad looking average from early 30's to late 30's.....but 4 x 100's in that time suggests Bavuma is average as a test top 6 batsman at best....but it's a one off test, so anyone can have their day in the sun.....even Labuschagne, despite his recent mediocrity.

 

[PhatBoy]

Not sure averaging 33 is considered doing well in the top 6, but hard to decipher after 9 tests...as for Bavuma....after 60 tests, Bavuma has done well of late to drag his sad looking average from early 30's to late 30's.....but 4 x 100's in that time suggests Bavuma is average as a test top 6 batsman at best....but it's a one off test, so anyone can have their day in the sun.....even Labuschagne, despite his recent mediocrity.

Bavuma was basically forced to play for much of his career when he wasn’t up to standard. That’s a pretty well known fact. He was made the poster boy for a selection system that was demeaning for players that weren’t deserving of a spot. Which he wasn’t.

He’s averaged 42 since the start of 2018. More to the point, it’s been when he’s made runs as anyone who’s actually watched SA play will attest.

Pretty sure he’s done enough to show he’s test quality.

 

[Freezin]

Fair point about Bavuma early years in the SA test team and being left to struggle. Good to see him find his feet over the past few years, still going to be a tall ask of the fella( no pun intended) to lead that SA top 6 in the final v a quality but aging Aussie attack. Just can't see him doing it....some one like a Stubbs or Bedingham, is going to have to pull out something special TBH....being a one off test, one can never say never I guess.....ditto to Konstas if he plays.

 

[PhatBoy]

Fair point about Bavuma early years in the SA test team and being left to struggle. Good to see him find his feet over the past few years, still going to be a tall ask of the fella( no pun intended) to lead that SA top 6 in the final v a quality but aging Aussie attack. Just can't see him doing it....some one like a Stubbs or Bedingham, is going to have to pull out something special TBH....being a one off test, one can never say never I guess.....ditto to Konstas if he plays.

It was actually Ryan Rickelton I was thinking of not Stubbs before - he’s come in and averaged over 40 with a couple of hundreds though admittedly that average is cushioned by a big double hundred. Still, Stubbs and Bedingham have both managed centuries early in their careers, two in 9 tests in Stubbs’ case which is a decent indicator that he can play even if his average is, well, average. They both have a fair bit to prove, no arguing that. They’ve both looked capable though. Bedingham in particular looks the part if nothing else, though so does Markram and he’s still not managed to drag his record up to where it should be.

 

[BGman]

Hence I said he’s passed 100 in one first class game. Hes literally done it in one game.

A bit confusing pal. And how many f/c cricketers score 100s in both innings. Fairly rare.

 

[PhatBoy]

A bit confusing pal. And how many f/c cricketers score 100s in both innings. Fairly rare.

I’d say quite a few have done it.

How is it confusing?

Shai Hope has made 100 in one test match. Literally everyone that follows international cricket knows he hit back to back hundreds in one game and won his side the match, and has never gone close to hitting triple figures again.

 

[cricketnut14]

come on channel 7, do the right thing - you still have a few weeks to make this right

 

[cats_09]

come on channel 7, do the right thing - you still have a few weeks to make this right

 

[DaRick]

I think Lyon is the better bowler, you don’t get 600 wickets if you aren’t extremely good, but Maharaj has averaged under 31 in every nation he’s bowled in except, ironically, India, and Australia - and he’s only played a combined 7 matches in the two nations. He’s been absolutely towelled up in both, but for a guy who’s based in SA he can’t have done much more to prove that he can bowl.

Five-fors in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, NZ (twice), the West Indies, 21 wickets at 29 in England, and 6 five-fors in SA. He’s done his job.

I'm not suggesting he's a hack - he's definitely SA's best spinner since readmission - but what I see is a perfectly capable support spinner who's threatening on turners but otherwise looks fairly innocuous.

I certainly don't think the gap between him (averaging <30) and Jack Leach (averaging 34) is nearly as large as statistics indicate. Both perform similar roles - albeit Maharaj turns the ball more - and both struggle when they're targeted.

 

[eth-dog]

It was actually Ryan Rickelton I was thinking of not Stubbs before - he’s come in and averaged over 40 with a couple of hundreds though admittedly that average is cushioned by a big double hundred. Still, Stubbs and Bedingham have both managed centuries early in their careers, two in 9 tests in Stubbs’ case which is a decent indicator that he can play even if his average is, well, average. They both have a fair bit to prove, no arguing that. They’ve both looked capable though. Bedingham in particular looks the part if nothing else, though so does Markram and he’s still not managed to drag his record up to where it should be.

Part of me wonders if Markram was elevated to captain too early in his career

 

[PhatBoy]

Part of me wonders if Markram was elevated to captain too early in his career

I think there is a strong argument to suggest that.

You can probably file him in the list of ‘players of great innings’ rather than great players, he’s just never going to reach that level, I’m resigned to that after having very high hopes for him early on

 

[Westend]

Well looks like it’s coming down to Konstas v labs boland v hazelwood

Scoring rate favours Konstas
Exp favours labs

Boland you know what you are going to get
Hazelwood is he fully fit ?

There the questions for me that the selectors have to consider