Science/Environment Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - HCQ doesn't work - Part 3

[Chief]

This thread is continued in Part 4:

Science/Environment - Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Part 4

This is part 3 of this thread. Part 2 is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/wuhan-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic-declared-part-2.1238728/ --------------- It looks like it began in wild animals being sold for human consumption, and once again the consequences of this stupidity is...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Ghost Patrol]

300+ new cases in Vic

Ok, clearly this is bigger than Dan Andrews

F*ck Scomo

 

[Baltimore Jack]

300+ new cases in Vic

Ah shit, I was hoping we were getting it under control

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Bugger 317 today

 

[yebiga]

There are stats from the Federal Government showing the lab tested confirmed influenza cases in Australia each year. You can further drill down to the monthly and state numbers as well.

You can find these at http://www9.health.gov.au/cda/source/rpt_3_sel.cfm

and here is a nice PDF with monthly breakdowns for 2020 and the previous 5 years https://www.immunisationcoalition.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/13Jul-Aust-Flu-Stats-2020.pdf

Last year there were 313,085 lab confirmed cases of the Influenza for Australia (which was a record high) for 902 confirmed deaths, a ~0.2881% death rate. 2018 we had 58,858 lab confirmed cases for 148 deaths (~0.25% death rate), and 2017 we had 251,151 cases for 1181 deaths (~0.47% death rate). Right now we've had 20823 lab confirmed influenza cases for all of Australia in 2020. July 2019 we had 70151 cases, half way through July 2020 and we've had 34 confirmed so far this month. My understanding is we are testing all covid test samples for Influenza as well.

Stats from https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/cda-surveil-ozflu-flucurr.htm and https://www.immunisationcoalition.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/1-Barr-ASM-2020-presentation.pdf

For Covid-19, we've had 10510 cases so far this year for 111 deaths, which is a ~1.05% death rate but that is based on numbers where there are still more than 2500 people with the virus and an unknown outcome, including 111 in hospital and 28 in an ICU. If you discount those cases and look at those with an outcome so far, the death rate increases to ~1.38%.

Covid seems to be see ~20% of cases to end up in Hospital, which is higher than the percentage of people getting hospitalized with the Flu.

So based on that, Covid-19 has a death rate that is ~4.8 times worse than last years Influenza strains in Australia (at this time). If a similar number of people got Covid in a year as got the flu last year, that death rate would lead to around 4300 deaths, which would be a top 10 cause of Death in Australia, roughly matching the deaths from diabetes and from other respiratory diseases, and ahead of suicide, breast and pancreatic cancer, heart failure, accidental falls, hypertension, kidney failure, liver disease, most of which aren't infectious with exponential growth potential (this is based on 2017 figures, the latest I could find in detail https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/life-expectancy-death/deaths/data)

On top of that we can vaccinate against many strains of Influenza, we generally know how to best treat and recover from it, and we know the general complications of the virus. Unfortunately we don't yet have a vaccine, proven treatments that help to prevent or mitigate symptoms (like Tami-flu with Influenza) or prevent death from Covid-19, or know the long term consequences to the body from Covid-19.

That's why it is far too simplistic to simply compare Influenza and Covid and assume it's similar. We know the death rate is worse, we know the hospitalization rate is worse, and we know from the experience in other countries, if a major outbreak occurs, it'll put enormous strain on the health system which could be overwhelmed and will lead to a increasing percentage of deaths.

Whilst we have the vaccine for the flu we still have 10 fold more deaths from flu than from COVID?
I’m way too stupid to understand this

 

[Turnover]

Whilst we have the vaccine for the flu we still have 10 fold more deaths from flu than from COVID?
I’m way too stupid to understand this

Well you keep on repeating yourself everyday, meaning your last sentence is correct.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I’m way too stupid to understand this

Do you have a paypal account?

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Whilst we have the vaccine for the flu we still have 10 fold more deaths from flu than from COVID?
I’m way too stupid to understand this

As Sutton today said and plenty of others, the only reason deaths are down and lower than flu is because of the restrictions. Past flu numbers would have also been down if same restrictions applied at the time. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

 

[faible]

As Sutton today said and plenty of others, the only reason deaths are down and lower than flu is because of the restrictions. Past flu numbers would have also been down if same restrictions applied at the time. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

He's answered this a few times already

I must have a really low IQ or something

Being as totally stupid as I am

I’m way too stupid to understand this

 

[mcnulty]

 

[Baltimore Jack]

As Sutton today said and plenty of others, the only reason deaths are down and lower than flu is because of the restrictions. Past flu numbers would have also been down if same restrictions applied at the time. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

In your last sentence, replace the word "this" with the word "everything"

 

[yebiga]

300+ new cases in Vic

As Sutton today said and plenty of others, the only reason deaths are down and lower than flu is because of the restrictions. Past flu numbers would have also been down if same restrictions applied at the time. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Well since normally we have 1,000-3,000 deaths annually from the flu and don't have isolation and economic lockdown but this year we have
111 covid deaths - I'm struggling to understand why we wouldnt lockdown permanently.

And if normally we have 300,000 flu cases per year and so far only have 34 this year - and we are in the middle of winter - I'm thinking maybe these Covid tests are merely registering those with Flu symptoms. Applying Occam's razor - is it more believable that we have eliminated the flu or that we have rushed a test thru that picks up on anything flu-like?

Does that explain my confusion?

I also hear that there have been 1,000 more suicides already this year above the normal 3,000.
it's not surprising this number would be higher as isolation leads to loneliness and loneliness can lead to despair.

So I am very confused.

Our children can't go out and play and hug and wrestle. More People are lonely and despairing. People arent visiting their elderly parents.

And the average age of those 111 people who died from COVID in Australia is 82 years old. See and 82 years old is exactly the same as Australia's life expectancy. In other words, statistically - zero people have died from COVID. So that is a lot of misery for zero benefits.

 

[mcnulty]

I'm struggling to understand why we wouldnt lockdown permanently.

Then you’re really struggling...

 

[Contador]

And the average age of those 111 people who died from COVID in Australia is 82 years old. See and 82 years old is exactly the same as Australia's life expectancy. In other words, statistically - zero people have died from COVID. So that is a lot of misery for zero benefits.

This is one of the most brilliantly idiotic pieces of logic I've ever read. Genuinely enjoyed it - great work.

This will really help cut the reported death counts overseas too - even if a 40yr old dies, a life expectancy of ~80 will mean that really only half a person will have died. And if someone over the age of 82 dies, I think we would be quite within our rights to subtract their extra portion of life from the overall death count.

 

[Nothing]

Occam has just rolled over in his grave.

 

[faible]

Occam has just rolled over in his grave.

Was he older than the average life expectancy when he died? If so, he doesn't really count as dead.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Was he older than the average life expectancy when he died? If so, he doesn't really count as dead.

Suicides are literally donating years off the death count!

 

[M Malice]

IMO we should embrace the new normal and lockdown permanently, it would save countless lives, not only from Covid but from Influenza and other communicable diseases. The permanent stay at home order would also lower crime levels resulting in savings in court and incarceration costs allowing for the permanent extension of increased Job "seeker" payments. People previously employed in the tourism, restaurant and other severely affected sectors could be retrained as lockdown enforcement officers and other occupations that would emerge through a permanent lockdown society eg. Protective clothing/masks/sanitiser etc manufacture, also invest more in augmented reality technologies.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

IMO we should embrace the new normal and lockdown permanently, it would save countless lives, not only from Covid but from Influenza and other communicable diseases. The permanent stay at home order would also lower crime levels resulting in savings in court and incarceration costs allowing for the permanent extension of increased Job "seeker" payments. People previously employed in the tourism, restaurant and other severely affected sectors could be retrained as lockdown enforcement officers and other occupations that would emerge through a permanent lockdown society eg. Protective clothing/masks/sanitiser etc manufacture, also invest more in augmented reality technologies.

And who said socialism was no good?

 

[yebiga]

This is one of the most brilliantly idiotic pieces of logic I've ever read. Genuinely enjoyed it - great work.

This will really help cut the reported death counts overseas too - even if a 40yr old dies, a life expectancy of ~80 will mean that really only half a person will have died. And if someone over the age of 82 dies, I think we would be quite within our rights to subtract their extra portion of life from the overall death count.

See this is how idiotic I am, beacuse statistically that makes complete sense to me.
The stats over many years provide you with information which determines the idea of normality.
Call me insane, but pandemic to me means increased deaths. HIstory tells us that the bubonic plague or the "spanish" flu resulted in over all significant increases in normal mortality.

But today, during the COVID pandemic virtually every country has less deaths than previous years and not a single one has even a 20 year peak!!!

In my experience sometimes people just make mistakes. It's really hard for people to admit it because its a loss of face. So many people just double down on their errors. The mistake then turns into a lie.

So maybe the guy from the WHO panicked. A few medical officers panicked. The Italians were having so many deaths that no one bothered to check why and a pandemic was called. It seems a reasonable call at the time. Now, it turns out the Italians have a load of explanations now why they had the blip and that they mishandled a lot of things. Spain and New York made the same errors with nursing homes and ventilators.

But by then Governments all over the world had shut down their economy, closed borders, issued social isolation decrees, closed tourism, entertainment, dining, cafes, pubs.

No one was going to simply say"Oops, we got it wrong!" The media was enjoying increased audiences because no one had anything better to do. Netflix, Amazon, Paypal, Google, Facebook, Zoom and many internet based companies were booming like a mother ****er.

Once, we saw those body bags in Italy, New York, Spain our emotions swelled, fear grew into terror. It was too late for reason or analysis. Covid was a monster killer. End of argument. No amount of dancing nurses or empty hospitals could change that. Anyone, whether a doctor, a noble prize winning expert could challenge the covid creed. Anyone who did was a conspiracy theorist, an anti-vaccer, a 5G nutter or pick your insulting dismissive label.

We are now in the realm of Mccarthyism, Salem Witch Trials, Reds under the beds. No facts or reason can penetrate the magical thinking now entrenched.
We go from 300,000 annual flu cases to 34 and its explianed as due to social isolation. We go from 1000-3000 annual deaths from the flu to 113 from Covid deaths and this is explained because if we didnt isolate it would be at who knows what and no one knows what the on going long term effects are and it could this and it could be that.

Remember, we are saving lives. Even though an additional 1,000 people have committed suicide. And the medium to long term effects are literally immeasurable.

It's hard to say, we got it wrong. But we all got it wrong. Dead wrong. Working out why, is the single silver lining in this dark cloud.

Shit, I am happy to be wrong. I wish I didn't think all this crap. But honestly, it's never added up and everyone knows it. Admit it, I know it is tough. A world where we concede all our authorities are this flawed is really frightening. BUt also invigorating as it is a siren call for all of us to start exercising our own minds and not allow ourselves, our children, parents, partners to fall for lies. Our culture is riddled with it. Just look what can be done when we want to - even when it is for all the wrong reasons - we can stop the world and restart it anyway we choose.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Just look what can be done when we want to - even when it is for all the wrong reasons - we can stop the world and restart it anyway we choose.

This is the only bit you need to worry about.

Help us stop the world yebiga. Stop resisting.

 

[Augmented Boat]

How come golf kills people but returning travellers won't is there something I'm missing?

Stopping people playing golf clearly doesn't have to seem to have helped. Actually closing our borders might've though

 

[faible]

they mishandled a lot of things. Spain and New York made the same errors

So, by not having lots of deaths, we didn't mishandle things?

Glad we've clarified that.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

See this is how idiotic I am, beacuse statistically that makes complete sense to me.
The stats over many years provide you with information which determines the idea of normality.
Call me insane, but pandemic to me means increased deaths. HIstory tells us that the bubonic plague or the "spanish" flu resulted in over all significant increases in normal mortality.

But today, during the COVID pandemic virtually every country has less deaths than previous years and not a single one has even a 20 year peak!!!

In my experience sometimes people just make mistakes. It's really hard for people to admit it because its a loss of face. So many people just double down on their errors. The mistake then turns into a lie.

So maybe the guy from the WHO panicked. A few medical officers panicked. The Italians were having so many deaths that no one bothered to check why and a pandemic was called. It seems a reasonable call at the time. Now, it turns out the Italians have a load of explanations now why they had the blip and that they mishandled a lot of things. Spain and New York made the same errors with nursing homes and ventilators.

But by then Governments all over the world had shut down their economy, closed borders, issued social isolation decrees, closed tourism, entertainment, dining, cafes, pubs.

No one was going to simply say"Oops, we got it wrong!" The media was enjoying increased audiences because no one had anything better to do. Netflix, Amazon, Paypal, Google, Facebook, Zoom and many internet based companies were booming like a mother f***er.

Once, we saw those body bags in Italy, New York, Spain our emotions swelled, fear grew into terror. It was too late for reason or analysis. Covid was a monster killer. End of argument. No amount of dancing nurses or empty hospitals could change that. Anyone, whether a doctor, a noble prize winning expert could challenge the covid creed. Anyone who did was a conspiracy theorist, an anti-vaccer, a 5G nutter or pick your insulting dismissive label.

We are now in the realm of Mccarthyism, Salem Witch Trials, Reds under the beds. No facts or reason can penetrate the magical thinking now entrenched.
We go from 300,000 annual flu cases to 34 and its explianed as due to social isolation. We go from 1000-3000 annual deaths from the flu to 113 from Covid deaths and this is explained because if we didnt isolate it would be at who knows what and no one knows what the on going long term effects are and it could this and it could be that.

Remember, we are saving lives. Even though an additional 1,000 people have committed suicide. And the medium to long term effects are literally immeasurable.

It's hard to say, we got it wrong. But we all got it wrong. Dead wrong. Working out why, is the single silver lining in this dark cloud.

sh*t, I am happy to be wrong. I wish I didn't think all this crap. But honestly, it's never added up and everyone knows it. Admit it, I know it is tough. A world where we concede all our authorities are this flawed is really frightening. BUt also invigorating as it is a siren call for all of us to start exercising our own minds and not allow ourselves, our children, parents, partners to fall for lies. Our culture is riddled with it. Just look what can be done when we want to - even when it is for all the wrong reasons - we can stop the world and restart it anyway we choose.

It’s amazing there are so many dumb countries along with their dumb chief medical officers and other top dumb epidemiologists that fail to see the light that you so clearly see.

Philippines joins growing list of countries reimposing restrictions

The Philippines has recorded south-east Asia's biggest daily jump in coronavirus deaths, after a tripling of infections since a tough lockdown was eased on June 1

www.theage.com.au

 

[M Malice]

#permanentlockdownnow #livesmatter #investinsexrobottechnologynow

 

[Better Loosen Up]

See this is how idiotic I am, beacuse statistically that makes complete sense to me.
The stats over many years provide you with information which determines the idea of normality.
Call me insane, but pandemic to me means increased deaths. HIstory tells us that the bubonic plague or the "spanish" flu resulted in over all significant increases in normal mortality.

But today, during the COVID pandemic virtually every country has less deaths than previous years and not a single one has even a 20 year peak!!!

In my experience sometimes people just make mistakes. It's really hard for people to admit it because its a loss of face. So many people just double down on their errors. The mistake then turns into a lie.

So maybe the guy from the WHO panicked. A few medical officers panicked. The Italians were having so many deaths that no one bothered to check why and a pandemic was called. It seems a reasonable call at the time. Now, it turns out the Italians have a load of explanations now why they had the blip and that they mishandled a lot of things. Spain and New York made the same errors with nursing homes and ventilators.

But by then Governments all over the world had shut down their economy, closed borders, issued social isolation decrees, closed tourism, entertainment, dining, cafes, pubs.

No one was going to simply say"Oops, we got it wrong!" The media was enjoying increased audiences because no one had anything better to do. Netflix, Amazon, Paypal, Google, Facebook, Zoom and many internet based companies were booming like a mother f***er.

Once, we saw those body bags in Italy, New York, Spain our emotions swelled, fear grew into terror. It was too late for reason or analysis. Covid was a monster killer. End of argument. No amount of dancing nurses or empty hospitals could change that. Anyone, whether a doctor, a noble prize winning expert could challenge the covid creed. Anyone who did was a conspiracy theorist, an anti-vaccer, a 5G nutter or pick your insulting dismissive label.

We are now in the realm of Mccarthyism, Salem Witch Trials, Reds under the beds. No facts or reason can penetrate the magical thinking now entrenched.
We go from 300,000 annual flu cases to 34 and its explianed as due to social isolation. We go from 1000-3000 annual deaths from the flu to 113 from Covid deaths and this is explained because if we didnt isolate it would be at who knows what and no one knows what the on going long term effects are and it could this and it could be that.

Remember, we are saving lives. Even though an additional 1,000 people have committed suicide. And the medium to long term effects are literally immeasurable.

It's hard to say, we got it wrong. But we all got it wrong. Dead wrong. Working out why, is the single silver lining in this dark cloud.

sh*t, I am happy to be wrong. I wish I didn't think all this crap. But honestly, it's never added up and everyone knows it. Admit it, I know it is tough. A world where we concede all our authorities are this flawed is really frightening. BUt also invigorating as it is a siren call for all of us to start exercising our own minds and not allow ourselves, our children, parents, partners to fall for lies. Our culture is riddled with it. Just look what can be done when we want to - even when it is for all the wrong reasons - we can stop the world and restart it anyway we choose.

The reason the COVID death rate is so low compared to previous years of the flu is because of all of the unprecedented measures we have put in place over recent months. This is not difficult to understand given the enormous drop in Flu deaths so far this year as you continue to harp on about....

You also need to stop comparing COVID to the flu. They are not the same.... not even from the same genetic family. While yes, people do die from the flu, those that survive don't end up with debilitating, potentially life long, side effects months afterwards like what we are seeing with COVID already.

So yes, you are wrong. And yes, you are stupid and idiotic. But this is only the case because you choose not to listen to those who are experts in their field and know a hell of a lot more than what you ever will.