Covid-19 Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Part 4 - Ivermectin doesn't work either.

[Chief]

Continued in Part 5:

Covid-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Part 5 - Get vaccinated.

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/in-focus/covid-19-vaccination-case-surveillance-051121.pdf In the peak fortnight of the outbreak to date (25 August to 7 September), the COVID-19 case rate among 2-dose vaccinated people was 49.5 per 100,000 while in unvaccinated...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Well, when the anti-covid folk didn't get the result they wanted when suicides now didn't go up, they've got to pivot to arguing about future suicides going up to justify their selfish narrative.

At the very least they could be honest enough to say "I find this coronavirus thing inconvenient and simply don't give enough of a sh*t about the wellbeing of other people to think I should have to be inconvenienced for something that probably won't do anything to me personally".

I work in the medical industry. I cannot speak for other states but I can personally speak for W.A in saying that what I would refer to as a complete and utter collapse of the mental health system here came about in February this year. March was the month police resources were diverted to help on a much larger scale due to the issues we had in February

February was the worst month I ever saw and I was told similar by people 30+ years in the hospitals in Perth too. Its gotten better but its worrisome that commentary like this is doing the rounds. It isnt fixed, its not over and throwing some police resourcing to paper over the cracks is a hollow attempt in my eyes. We need help and we need it NOW. I cannot stress the NOW part enough.

 

[Chief]

You support the pm's sentiment then in this case Chiefy?

What is the PM’s sentiment? I haven’t read much about this.

 

[andrewmillman]

What is the PM’s sentiment? I haven’t read much about this.

That one covid death is too many, and that we cant let community transmission restart once most are vaccinated (which was the virgin ceos contention).

Nick coatsworth and dr death have also made comments of a similar vein to the virgin ceo. That we need to prepare to reopen post vaccine and cop continued low level community transmission.

 

[Chief]

That short summary I don’t really agree with. I don’t think it is 100% avoidable. Bit giving up so a CEO can get their bonus is stupid.

She’s playing on people’s motivated reasoning to make a few bucks.

 

[PP34]

That short summary I don’t really agree with. I don’t think it is 100% avoidable. Bit giving up so a CEO can get their bonus is stupid.

She’s playing on people’s motivated reasoning to make a few bucks.

She’s right though.

The whole point of getting vaccinated was to put an end to fortress Australia. Now the government is talking differently about vaccination and people aren’t flocking to get it. Gee I wonder why.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

War footing on vaccinations for two weeks, war on China for two weeks.

What's he blowing up next?

 

[Chief]

the government is talking differently about vaccination

How so?

Why is this stopping people? I’d get it if I could, but there are far more vulnerable people than me who need it first.

 

[Financialpanther]

She’s right though.

The whole point of getting vaccinated was to put an end to fortress Australia. Now the government is talking differently about vaccination and people aren’t flocking to get it. Gee I wonder why.

It very much is the Falcon Winter Soldier meme. Horrible delivery though.

 

[MrKK]

They are a kind of lying still. This demand is excessive but not unprecedented. There has been steady year on year growth in ambulance transport and ED attendance. Covid shutdowns caused a drop but what we see here is presentations returning to the prior trend. The numbers are just harder to manage due to covid protocols, social distancing etc that slow internal hospital processes. Eg if you are in my ED and have a possible covid symptom it takes a lot longer (hours) to get seen, tests etc.

Isn't that demonstrating the problem, that overly focusing on Covid is leading to worse health outcomes overall? Do you see a time when those protocols would be dropped?

 

[MrKK]

Surely by now everyone knows Covid is not the flu and vice versa?

It is pretty much accepted that the biggest mistake western countries made was treating this like an influenza epidemic when it is quite different.

Apart from that initial failure, influenza vaccines are readily available, and Covid fatality rate is about 10 times that of the flu, compounded by a higher transmission rate.

It is not the flu.

We've always accepted that some people will die of flu every year but that's the price we are willing to pay to be open to the rest of the world. Why is it insensitive for someone to make the same point about Covid?

 

[PP34]

How so?

Why is this stopping people? I’d get it if I could, but there are far more vulnerable people than me who need it first.

Well for one their vaccination targets are incredibly vague. The government website lists herd immunity. Worldwide it’s becoming clear the initial goal of herd immunity isn’t happening.

All the talk the last few weeks is that vaccination doesn’t automatically equal open borders.

It is leading to people in this country not caring about getting vaccinated. I’ve spoken to multiple people I know about it. They’re not anti vaxxers but they’re not rushing out to get vaccinated, because what’s the use? The chances of them getting Covid are that small and the chances of dying would be 0.0000000001% while borders remain shut.

 

[Chief]

Well for one their vaccination targets are incredibly vague. The government website lists herd immunity. Worldwide it’s becoming clear the initial goal of herd immunity isn’t happening.

All the talk the last few weeks is that vaccination doesn’t automatically equal open borders.

It is leading to people in this country not caring about getting vaccinated. I’ve spoken to multiple people I know about it. They’re not anti vaxxers but they’re not rushing out to get vaccinated, because what’s the use? The chances of them getting Covid are that small and the chances of dying would be 0.0000000001% while borders remain shut.

Seems to be an education gap. But yes, the government needs to start talking about loose targets: percentage of local population/segments immunised, percentage of world population immunised, or the levels they will accept before flights in from foreign countries. That sort of thing.

I can see why they don't want to be tied down, but that's political. The situation is volatile so they need to simply keep updating the plan.

 

[GoldenSky]

Surely by now everyone knows Covid is not the flu and vice versa?

It is pretty much accepted that the biggest mistake western countries made was treating this like an influenza epidemic when it is quite different.

Apart from that initial failure, influenza vaccines are readily available, and Covid fatality rate is about 10 times that of the flu, compounded by a higher transmission rate.

It is not the flu.

What on earth are you talking about - the Virgin CEO talked about a comparison with the flu specifically.

(In fact, the death rates with vaccinations would be WAY SMALLER than with the flu anyway - have you not seen the current rates in the UK for example?)

Virgin boss wants borders reopened even if ‘some people may die’ from COVID-19

Virgin Australia’s chief executive has likened COVID-19 to the flu and says she wants the international border to reopen soon even if it unfortunately means “some people may die” from the virus.

www.news.com.au

Jayne Hrdlicka said if vaccination levels were high enough, Australia should reopen sooner.

“COVID will be part of the community,” she told a business lunch in Brisbane on Monday.

“We will become sick with COVID and it won’t put us in hospital, and it won’t put people into dire straits because we’ll have a vaccine.

“Some people may die, but it will be way smaller than with the flu.


Actually, I notice in a lot of settings the Covid-Inspector-Generals love to lecture on how "Covid is not the flu". Even if they have to crowbar it into the conversation. I just sit back and laugh as literally, they are both coronaviruses. It's like saying a Gala apple is not an apple.

 

[Chief]

“Some people may die, but it will be way smaller than with the flu.

That's what on Earth I am talking about. We cannot be sure. We made this mistake in the past. It's logical to not want to make it again.

 

[Hornberger]

I can see why they don't want to be tied down, but that's political.

This is what it boils down too. Any plan to re-open international travel will be tied to the progress of the vaccine rollout.

Once they do that, the answer to any question of why you can't travel overseas yet will be because the federal government botched the rollout. It would just act as constant reminder how the Federal Government managed to completely screw things up.

 

[owen87]

I just sit back and laugh as literally, they are both coronaviruses.

Um.... you might want to fact check that as they are 'literally' not.

 

[GoldenSky]

The numbers are just harder to manage due to covid protocols, social distancing etc that slow internal hospital processes. Eg if you are in my ED and have a possible covid symptom it takes a lot longer (hours) to get seen, tests etc.

For a country with such tightly managed borders and no community spread, is this delaying of care reasonable?

I don't think it is.

 

[GoldenSky]

That's what on Earth I am talking about. We cannot be sure. We made this mistake in the past. It's logical to not want to make it again.

So, what, you're saying no point in vaccinating?

If we don't open up when we are vaccinated, then what on earth is the point of all of this?

 

[Chief]

 

[GoldenSky]

Um.... you might want to fact check that as they are 'literally' not.

Of course they are.

 

[GoldenSky]

Well, explain to me then - if when vaccination levels are high enough, we DON'T open the borders - then when do we ever open them???

 

[Chief]

Well, explain to me then - if when vaccination levels are high enough, we DON'T open the borders - then when do we ever open them???

The more I respond, the more wild swings you take at setting what you believe is a cunning debate trap.

It's like pulling teeth.

 

[owen87]

Of course they are.

Please explain, using evidence and facts, how influenza is a coronavirus.

I'll wait.

 

[GoldenSky]

Please explain, using evidence and facts, how influenza is a coronavirus.

I'll wait.

Sorry, what Anglos term "the common cold" is often a coronavirus.

Now we've got that out of the way, get to the substance of what was being said.

 

[GoldenSky]

The more I respond, the more wild swings you take at setting what you believe is a cunning debate trap.

It's like pulling teeth.

No trap. Just want to know. I'm perplexed as to why someone would think everyone being vaccinated who wants to be would NOT lead to borders re-opening??!!!