Science/Environment Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Part 4 - The nips are gettin' bigger.

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ShanDog

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Dry Rot

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A person with a case of the South African strain has been admitted to hospital in Brisbane. Supposedly more virulent and even more transmissable than the UK strain.
Link please. Was it someone from hotel quarantine or community transmission? There have been a handful of cases of the new UK strain in Sydney hotel quarantine.
 

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Link please. Was it someone from hotel quarantine or community transmission? There have been a handful of cases of the new UK strain in Sydney hotel quarantine.
Australia has now also recorded its first case of the South African variant of COVID-19, which is believed to be more contagious, in an individual who arrived in the country on December 22.

"We have seen other jurisdictions record a UK variant. But this is the first time the South African one has been identified in Australia. The positive news - the good news about this individual - is that they were in hotel quarantine at the time they were tested and they have since been transferred to a hospital, and we are absolutely confident that all proper measures were taken at the hotel, and in the transfer, and of course at the hospital in relation to this positive case."
 

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Saints43

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How dodgy is the WHO?

If you ever wondered why so many people think so poorly of the WHO, check out this sh*t they are now up to: Definitions of herd immunity.

This is really important, as so many people quote the WHO as if it is an ethical trustworthy organisation which it certainly is not.

9/6/20 WHO definition (as we all know it):

https://web.archive.org/web/20201101161006/https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-serology

What is Herd immunity?

Herd immunity is the indirect protection from an infectious disease that happens when a population is immune either through vaccination or immunity developed through previous infection. This means that even people who haven’t been infected, or in whom an infection hasn’t triggered an immune response, they are protected because people around them who are immune can act as buffers between them and an infected person. The threshold for establishing herd immunity for COVID-19 is not yet clear.

Updated bullshit 13/11/20 WHO definition – note how they excluded immunity from previous infections and simply spruik vaccines

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-serology

‘Herd immunity’, also known as ‘population immunity’, is a concept used for vaccination, in which a population can be protected from a certain virus if a threshold of vaccination is reached.

Herd immunity is achieved by protecting people from a virus, not by exposing them to it. Read the Director-General’s 12 October media briefing speech for more detail.

Vaccines train our immune systems to develop antibodies, just as might happen when we are exposed to a disease but – crucially – vaccines work without making us sick. Vaccinated people are protected from getting the disease in question. Visit our webpage on COVID-19 and vaccines for more detail.

As more people in a community get vaccinated, fewer people remain vulnerable, and there is less possibility for passing the pathogen on from person to person. Lowering the possibility for a pathogen to circulate in the community protects those who cannot be vaccinated due to other serious health conditions from the disease targeted by the vaccine. This is called ‘herd immunity’.

‘Herd immunity’ exists when a high percentage of the population is vaccinated, making it difficult for infectious diseases to spread, because there are not many people who can be infected. Read our Q&A on vaccines and immunization for more information.

The percentage of people who need to have antibodies in order to achieve herd immunity against a particular disease varies with each disease. For example, herd immunity against measles requires about 95% of a population to be vaccinated. The remaining 5% will be protected by the fact that measles will not spread among those who are vaccinated. For polio, the threshold is about 80%.

Achieving herd immunity with safe and effective vaccines makes diseases rarer and saves lives.
One link is regarding general herd immunity and the other is specific to covid 19 and herd immunity. People have contacted covid 19 more than once.
 

Dry Rot

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Australia has now also recorded its first case of the South African variant of COVID-19, which is believed to be more contagious, in an individual who arrived in the country on December 22.

"We have seen other jurisdictions record a UK variant. But this is the first time the South African one has been identified in Australia. The positive news - the good news about this individual - is that they were in hotel quarantine at the time they were tested and they have since been transferred to a hospital, and we are absolutely confident that all proper measures were taken at the hotel, and in the transfer, and of course at the hospital in relation to this positive case."
Thanks.

Given the rapid spread in many countries, it is a matter of time before this escapes into here.
 

sorted

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The aim of the vaccine is to produce a better outcome than the present situation.
That's very vague. The trials measure 'Covid cases', nearly all of which are non-serious. A 'better outcome' would be less hospitalisations, serious illness and death. There was very limited data on this in the trials.

Of course it does.
The WHO's Chief Scientist doesn't "believe we have the evidence on any of the vaccines to be confident that it's going to prevent people from actually getting the infection and therefore being able to pass it on".


Why would it be assumed that the vaccine has any "long term effects" after having gone through the initial phase trials?
I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying the adverse affects that might take years to develop are not known from a few month trials of these new vaccines.
 

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My speculation is that there were not many over 85 in the trial so conclusions of statistical significance could not be drawn. I think that over 55 was part of trial design (? Hospitalisation rates start to increase at this point - again speculation)
From the UK.

the age profile of those dying with Covid was significantly older than that for deaths in general.​


I wonder what a successful trial of Covid-19 vaccines in the over 80s would have looked like?
 

Dogs_R_Us

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sorted

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The original strain was supposed to be be super virulent - that justified lockdown measures. Then the UK Kent strain was super super virulent - that justified increased lockdown measures. Now the South Africa strain is super super super virulent. You've probably caught it just by reading about it.
 

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Pessimistic

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The original strain was supposed to be be super virulent - that justified lockdown measures. Then the UK Kent strain was super super virulent - that justified increased lockdown measures. Now the South Africa strain is super super super virulent. You've probably caught it just by reading about it.
Super to the power Super
 

Pessimistic

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Maybe, but can it produce a pandemic readiness plan which similar inquiries said were necessary a decade ago?

And maybe if 'spending' is involved, discuss the main threats the country faces, Extreme climate, Pandemic, systems hacking and terror threats.

Examin all the money we spend for protection from threats (war etc) and see which is an actual threat which warrants resources.


And don't be all surprised and antsy when a hotel quarantine system put together in a weekend is not the best fit for purpose
 

Snake_Baker

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That's very vague.
Simple truths do not require verbose extrapolation.

The WHO's Chief Scientist doesn't "believe we have the evidence on any of the vaccines to be confident that it's going to prevent people from actually getting the infection and therefore being able to pass it on".

It's a journalists take on a comment. If I was to be pedantic I would state that no vaccine on earth prevents any human being from being a viral vector through skin contact, but that would be a disingenuous comment to make in the context of the conversation.

I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying the adverse affects that might take years to develop are not known from a few month trials of these new vaccines.
You believe such things are common?
 

Snake_Baker

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https://www.theguardian.com/austral...nated-against-covid-by-october-greg-hunt-says

All three of the vaccines acquired by Australia: the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, the AstraZeneca/Oxford University vaccine, and the Novavax vaccine, require two doses spaced several weeks apart.

Lots to look forward to here. But what of the third one, the Novavax vaccine? It uses dead virus as the antigen like traditional vaccines, so maybe this is one we should all go for?

Maybe not.

The company has never put a vaccine on the market before. https://www.forbes.com/sites/greats...x-covid-vaccine-still-matter/?sh=11993bcb68b7

Still, there’s a first time for everything. Including Novavax’s new patented adjuvant it uses, Matrix-M™. It has never been used before.

From the company’s website https://ir.novavax.com/news-release...hase-3-efficacy-trial-covid-19-vaccine-united

About Matrix-M™

Novavax’ patented saponin-based Matrix-M™ adjuvant has demonstrated a potent and well-tolerated effect by stimulating the entry of antigen-presenting cells into the injection site and enhancing antigen presentation in local lymph nodes, boosting immune response.

So the adjuvant here works on your lymph nodes. Sounds good, it’s not like lymph nodes are important or you get cancer there.

What could possibly go wrong?
By christ your understanding of these things is woeful!

The lymph nodes, for example, are the bus stations on the immune system highway, where the macrophages/NK cells in your system right now are shuttling bits of chewed up cancer antigen for recognition and activation of your adaptive immune response, in order to wipe it out.

This goes on in your body CONSTANTLY.

Read a freakin immunology text book!
 

Evolved1

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The original strain was supposed to be be super virulent - that justified lockdown measures. Then the UK Kent strain was super super virulent - that justified increased lockdown measures. Now the South Africa strain is super super super virulent. You've probably caught it just by reading about it.
This moment was prophesied in the lyrics of ACDC's TNT.

So lock up your daughter
Lock up your wife
Lock up your back door
And run for your life
 

PP34

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That's very vague. The trials measure 'Covid cases', nearly all of which are non-serious. A 'better outcome' would be less hospitalisations, serious illness and death. There was very limited data on this in the trials.



The WHO's Chief Scientist doesn't "believe we have the evidence on any of the vaccines to be confident that it's going to prevent people from actually getting the infection and therefore being able to pass it on".




I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying the adverse affects that might take years to develop are not known from a few month trials of these new vaccines.
And yet *******s like Dan Andrews will do nothing but hinge their hopes on a vaccine being the magic bullet.
 

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