Science/Environment Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Part 4 - The nips are gettin' bigger.

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Ned_Flanders

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Isn't that in line with what I said?

This is a designed virus, if we're being generous, China had a lab leak - but their actions since have been indefensible.

If they came clean to the world about exactly what they were trying to achieve (and most likely it was a positive research project), and what the fu** this is, we would've been better placed to tackle it - and to figure out exactly what it was doing to people.
not really. look at the mistakes that blew this out, and what would have changed?

- people still dont want to wear masks
- people still want social distancing to be optional only
- people still want open international travel
- people still think this is a fake virus

and this isnt here, where deaths have been minimal (comparatively), and infections borderline non existent now.

this is what they think - today - in the USA. with infections on the rise again, people are still pushing the whole "its not a big deal" or "its not real" lines.

one thing this virus has shown is how selfish western nations peeps have become. Are we even surprised now when we read that someone who is infected still went to shopping centres, pubs, or parties because they were feeling fine? Ive lost count TBH
 

King Elvis

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And their infection rate is trending downwards;

1617792072533.png


not really. look at the mistakes that blew this out, and what would have changed?

- people still dont want to wear masks
- people still want social distancing to be optional only
- people still want open international travel
- people still think this is a fake virus

and this isnt here, where deaths have been minimal (comparatively), and infections borderline non existent now.

this is what they think - today - in the USA. with infections on the rise again, people are still pushing the whole "its not a big deal" or "its not real" lines.

one thing this virus has shown is how selfish western nations peeps have become. Are we even surprised now when we read that someone who is infected still went to shopping centres, pubs, or parties because they were feeling fine? Ive lost count TBH
Why did Italy have a 15% mortality rate when it started?
Why were there videos of people falling down dead in the street out of China?

The bold proves my point; for MOST people, it is not a big deal; but we should protect the vulnerable and elderly as much as possible.

I think it is basically accepted that this is Lab made now (forget the nature of release) - Moderna created a vaccine 48 hours after mapping the virus; while China has destroyed information and prevented access to allow faster and more effective research.

Why aren't there more conversations about the role of Vitamin D in reducing virus intensity?


Why isn't ivermectin, a proven and widely used medicine, being discussed widely as a useful tool to fight the virus?

Why does the FDA recommend AGAINST it, as it's not proven specifically against COVID (https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consu...-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19), but approves the use of vaccines created in under 12 months.

There is way too much bullshit floating around this entire virus.
 
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Ned_Flanders

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And their infection rate is trending downwards;

View attachment 1096514



Why did Italy have a 15% mortality rate when it started?
Why were there videos of people falling down dead in the street out of China?

The bold proves my point; for MOST people, it is not a big deal; but we should protect the vulnerable and elderly as much as possible.

I think it is basically accepted that this is Lab made now (forget the nature of release) - Moderna created a vaccine 48 hours after mapping the virus; while China has destroyed information and prevented access to allow faster and more effective research.

Why aren't there more conversations about the role of Vitamin D in reducing virus intensity?


Why isn't ivermectin, a proven and widely used medicine, been discussed widely as a useful tool to fight the virus?

Why does the FDA recommend AGAINST it, as it's not proven specifically against COVID (https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consu...-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19), but approves the use of vaccines created in under 12 months.

There is way too much bullshit floating around this entire virus.
People were dying in Italy and china at massive rates because their hospitals were not prepared for a fraction of what hit them. If you can't get to a doc you aren't gunna die in a hospital.
 

King Elvis

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People were dying in Italy and china at massive rates because their hospitals were not prepared for a fraction of what hit them. If you can't get to a doc you aren't gunna die in a hospital.
Well, according to China, people there weren't dying at massive rates.

A lot of Italians were dying in hospital - two reasons; they have a significantly above average age popular, and at that early stage, the treatment response was to put everybody on ventilators - which they now realised actually contributed to a lot of the deaths.

Neither of that contradicts my initial point. It's 12 months on, we have effective vaccines, but we still don't have a clear understanding of how this virus operates, and why some people don't even know they have it, and some get absolutely smashed by it.

The most likely source of this information not only refuses to share it, but they've actively destroyed and concealed it.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Well, according to China, people there weren't dying at massive rates.

A lot of Italians were dying in hospital - two reasons; they have a significantly above average age popular, and at that early stage, the treatment response was to put everybody on ventilators - which they now realised actually contributed to a lot of the deaths.

Neither of that contradicts my initial point. It's 12 months on, we have effective vaccines, but we still don't have a clear understanding of how this virus operates, and why some people don't even know they have it, and some get absolutely smashed by it.

The most likely source of this information not only refuses to share it, but they've actively destroyed and concealed it.
1) china followed the who definition, which was to be a covid death you had to test positive via lab test. Many Chinese were diagnosed clinically (x-ray of lungs), and they didn't test their dead. Remember early on test kits were in short supply, so these were rationed.

Spain and Italy had the same issues.

And as for your "there was a simple vaccine but big pharma didn't want you to use it!!!" take it to the conspiracy board with the rest of the lunatics.
 

Hawk Dork

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Well, according to China, people there weren't dying at massive rates.

A lot of Italians were dying in hospital - two reasons; they have a significantly above average age popular, and at that early stage, the treatment response was to put everybody on ventilators - which they now realised actually contributed to a lot of the deaths.

Neither of that contradicts my initial point. It's 12 months on, we have effective vaccines, but we still don't have a clear understanding of how this virus operates, and why some people don't even know they have it, and some get absolutely smashed by it.

The most likely source of this information not only refuses to share it, but they've actively destroyed and concealed it.
Good article from 2014

A Brief, Terrifying History of Viruses Escaping From Labs
How well-intentioned research with dangerous pathogens could put people at risk.

By Martin Furmanski
April 11, 20141:51 PM


It is hardly reassuring that, despite stepwise technical improvements in containment facilities and increased policy demands for rigorous biosecurity procedures in the handling of dangerous pathogens, potentially high-consequence breaches of biocontainment occur nearly daily: In 2010, 244 unintended releases of bioweapon candidate “select agents” were reported.

 

King Elvis

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Good article from 2014

A Brief, Terrifying History of Viruses Escaping From Labs
How well-intentioned research with dangerous pathogens could put people at risk.

By Martin Furmanski
April 11, 20141:51 PM


It is hardly reassuring that, despite stepwise technical improvements in containment facilities and increased policy demands for rigorous biosecurity procedures in the handling of dangerous pathogens, potentially high-consequence breaches of biocontainment occur nearly daily: In 2010, 244 unintended releases of bioweapon candidate “select agents” were reported.


This year.

Scary stuff - a hell of a lot of experimentation going on which seems to be a huge risk for very little reward; like a firefighter starting a fire so they can put one out.

In 2011, a tall, confident Dutch scientist, Ron Fouchier, using grant money from Fauci’s group at NIH, created a mutant form of highly pathogenic avian influenza, H5N1, and passaged it ten times through ferrets in order to prove that he could “force” (his word) this potentially fatal disease to infect mammals, including humans, “via aerosols or respiratory droplets.” Fouchier said his findings indicated that these avian influenza viruses, thus forced, “pose a risk of becoming pandemic in humans.”

This experiment was too much for some scientists: Why, out of a desire to prove that something extremely infectious could happen, would you make it happen? And why would the U.S. government feel compelled to pay for it to happen? Late in 2011, Marc Lipsitch of the Harvard School of Public Health got together with several other dismayed onlookers to ring the gong for caution. On January 8, 2012, the New York Times published a scorcher of an editorial, “An Engineered Doomsday.” “We cannot say there would be no benefits at all from studying the virus,” the Times said. “But the consequences, should the virus escape, are too devastating to risk.”
 
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Evolved1

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Property prices are booming before covid as well, so would not attribute it to covid. I blame overly generous capital gains rules which allow residential property to be treated as an investment. And removing them now will only reduce upward drivers, not force sales and drop prices. Massive interest rate shock might drop prices but then I’d say that the whole economy would be f’ed in that case.

I’m a little surprised no one has made more of the link I posted earlier where covid in Victoria was not statistically significantly worse in terms of death/ mechanically ventilation cf non covid causes in July 2020
Could you repost the link. Thanks
 

Evolved1

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Personal view - I’m living in Europe, own business, established, good group of friends. Last year supposed to be my last full year home before splitting time.

Was supposed to be home for a month last July. Cancelled as I didn’t need to be, didn’t want to take flight spot away from those in need, govt advice to stay, etc.

Was then meant to come home at Christmas for a month - basically impossible; would’ve cost me approx $15,000-$20,000 to do so, if the flight went ahead; most aren’t.

Was then hoping to come home in March; same as above.

Now hoping for July, but expecting December.

I’ve had some family things happen which I desperately wanted to be home for, but aside from that, I’m alright over here, so it’s just a frustration for me, not a disaster.


But the Aus govt has absolutely abandoned Au citizens across the world, and it’s a ******* disgrace. It defies belief that being an Australian is no longer relevant, and so many people are happy to politicize it, and ignore the plight of a lot of people who are desperate to get home.
The baseline standard for success in Australia is zero community transmission, and the war on covid is being treated similarly to the war on terror. Given the expectation of zero community transmission of covid, I am personally thankful that the inflow from other nations is slow.

The flow on effects aren't worth it given the inability of our governments to effectively manage HQ and community outbreaks.

I can imagine the situation is horrible for those stuck overseas. Hopefully it can be managed better now that vaccines are available.
 

King Elvis

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The baseline standard for success in Australia is zero community transmission, and the war on covid is being treated similarly to the war on terror. Given the expectation of zero community transmission of covid, I am personally thankful that the inflow from other nations is slow.

The flow on effects aren't worth it given the inability of our governments to effectively manage HQ and community outbreaks.

I can imagine the situation is horrible for those stuck overseas. Hopefully it can be managed better now that vaccines are available.


I understand that position - but to me, it’s not a case of all or nothing.

Fix the inbound quarantine method and do it properly (off-shore, remote camps, whatever), and allow Australians who want/need to come home to do so - without getting gouged by airlines.
 

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Ned_Flanders

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Sorry, what is this in response to; the ivermectin option as treatment?
sorry - missed this

yes, because the amount of bullshit on "cures" for covid-19 which means its a big non issue for everyone is complete BS

some medications have worked with some people, but its a long way from saying we have a cure and everyone can get infected without fear. if you start treatment too late, if you have some pre-existings, or if you are just the wrong dude, a lot of these options wont work

and here's the bit i dont get. whoever gets a cure for covid-19 will make billions. why would they hide it? the countries nailed by this (USA, EU, UK, India, Russia, Brazil, Mexico) are too diverse for it to be a part of the great replacement theory. and for those who think china is behind this, why would USA/EU pharma be supporting a chinese attempt to infect the world?

all this bullshit goes back 9 months, when idiots on this board were saying covid-19 was a pre-emptive chinese attack on the usa before they launched an invasion on the USA. last time i checked, they arent even ready to invade taiwan let alone the usa.

and as for your notion that this was fake in china, speak to people with family in the region. the body count was very much higher than reported (because of the nontesting of the dead, and clnical test methods not being accepted by the WHO). estimates that the true death toll was 20 fold the official number isnt even debated by people in china.

and as for now, if this was a nothing burger why are the chinese still locking down whole districts in Beijing and Shanghai when they find a single case? While not a wuhan style lockdown, its not far off it (you are jailed if you breach home detention)
 

King Elvis

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some medications have worked with some people, but its a long way from saying we have a cure and everyone can get infected without fear. if you start treatment too late, if you have some pre-existings, or if you are just the wrong dude, a lot of these options wont work
Good thing I didn't say this then?

And a lot of these options do work, and have proven to be. Writing them off because of co-morbidity or 'just being the wrong dude' is insane, when there is plenty of data to support their effectiveness.

And, for the record - most people can get infected without fear.

and here's the bit i dont get. whoever gets a cure for covid-19 will make billions.
Really? For medicines that have gone off license and can be produced generically for cents?

and as for your notion that this was fake in china, speak to people with family in the region. the body count was very much higher than reported (because of the nontesting of the dead, and clnical test methods not being accepted by the WHO). estimates that the true death toll was 20 fold the official number isnt even debated by people in china.

and as for now, if this was a nothing burger why are the chinese still locking down whole districts in Beijing and Shanghai when they find a single case? While not a wuhan style lockdown, its not far off it (you are jailed if you breach home detention)
Once again, you're re-enforcing my point. I didn't say it was fake in China - they either overstated it (ie; people dropping dead in the street, which we haven't seen anywhere else); or they massively understated it.

Either way, China has lied and actively obstructed the world from addressing this virus in the most effective and efficient manner.

We still don't understand why this virus acts like it does, why it impacts different people so completely differently, why some countries are smashed and some are barely touched (one of my friends is an Aid worker in Africa, specifically a data scientist working with COVID response - and they have barely been impacted).

It is not a conspiracy theory to suggest that there are a hell of a lot of weird factors rotating around this virus, and the response to it.

and for those who think china is behind this, why would USA/EU pharma be supporting a chinese attempt to infect the world?
I think it's a lab modified virus. I think it was probably an accidental release. I think China has then decided to either capitalise on it, or not be the only one impacted by it. I cannot see how you can draw any other conclusion from their behaviour and actions since - Christ, all you have to do is look at how they're hammering Australia for daring to suggest that some clarity on what the fu** this actually is, would be helpful.

For the italics - I don't know; as I said, it's just a whole lot of things that don't make any sense; the simple answer? Pharma isn't 'supporting it' - they're the lucky recipients of a series of coincidences which will allow them to profit insanely as a result.

And considering most of the rhetoric is now around having a booster shot every 12 months, they're likely to continue profiting well into the future.
 
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Ned_Flanders

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Good thing I didn't say this then?

And a lot of these options do work, and have proven to be. Writing them off because of co-morbidity or 'just being the wrong dude' is insane, when there is plenty of data to support their effectiveness.

And, for the record - most people can get infected without fear.



Really? For medicines that have gone off license and can be produced generically for cents?



Once again, you're re-enforcing my point. I didn't say it was fake in China - they either overstated it (ie; people dropping dead in the street, which we haven't seen anywhere else); or they massively understated it.

Either way, China has lied and actively obstructed the world from addressing this virus in the most effective and efficient manner.

We still don't understand why this virus acts like it does, why it impacts different people so completely differently, why some countries are smashed and some are barely touched (one of my friends is an Aid worker in Africa, specifically a data scientist working with COVID response - and they have barely been impacted).

It is not a conspiracy theory to suggest that there are a hell of a lot of weird factors rotating around this virus, and the response to it.



I think it's a lab modified virus. I think it was probably an accidental release. I think China has then decided to either capitalise on it, or not be the only one impacted by it. I cannot see how you can draw any other conclusion from their behaviour and actions since - Christ, all you have to do is look at how they're hammering Australia for daring to suggest that some clarity on what the fu** this actually is, would be helpful.

For the italics - I don't know; as I said, it's just a whole lot of things that don't make any sense; the simple answer? Pharma isn't 'supporting it' - they're the lucky recipients of a series of coincidences which will allow them to profit insanely as a result.

And considering most of the rhetoric is now around having a booster shot every 12 months, they're likely to continue profiting well into the future.
1) long term effects are still unknown, and apparently it has a fair kicker for more than just 3%

2) off licence is bullshit. look at insulin. do slight mods, re-patent, and you maintain your control

3) FFS dont be a dumbarse. people did die on the street in china. and the reason was simple - their hospitals were overflowing, and they had nowhere to go. What people dont understand is the chinese medical system is more user pays than the USA (families have to bring meals in for their family members for example). What changed afterwards and in most countries was home quarantine. this didnt happen in Wuhan until the horse had bolted.

4) it is a conspiracy theory to suggest china is doing this deliberately and they are faking its effects there.
 

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Well, according to China, people there weren't dying at massive rates.
And yet they slyly produced videos of people keeling over in the street, expiring in hospital corridors, doctors weeping over not being able to save patients, and soldiers sealing people into their apartment buildings. All the while allowing their people to fly out all over the world, including Australia.
 

King Elvis

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In case it's not clear - I don't blame the Chinese people for any of this; when I say China, I am referring to the CCP and its apparatus.

And buying up a shitload of our PPE to be shipped back while stating it wasn't an issue.


Lied, covered up, destroyed evidence.

And they continue to do so;




Trashing the Australian economy because we dared asked them to be transparent about it.

"Disappeared" their own people who tried to warn the rest of the world what was happening.


2) off licence is bullshit. look at insulin. do slight mods, re-patent, and you maintain your control
Insulin?

They found that overall, the average US manufacturer price per standard unit across all insulins was $98.70, compared to $6.94 in Australia, $12.00 in Canada, and $7.52 in the UK. Specifically, for rapid-acting insulins, the US reported an average price of $111.39 per standard unit versus $8.19 in non-US countries.

Just because America is f’ed for it, doesn't mean the rest of the world is, or that it's a valid example to use against the massive range of generics available.

1) long term effects are still unknown, and apparently it has a fair kicker for more than just 3%
Let me ask you this mate - Do you think the Chinese Govt has done everything in their power to combat COVID, and assist the rest of the world in doing so?
 
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Dry Rot

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Goodness! Who would have thought the AstraZeneca vax is unsafe


 

Hawk Dork

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And yet they slyly produced videos of people keeling over in the street, expiring in hospital corridors, doctors weeping over not being able to save patients, and soldiers sealing people into their apartment buildings. All the while allowing their people to fly out all over the world, including Australia.
All the Australians who came back from Wuhan had no virus
 

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sorry - missed this

yes, because the amount of bullshit on "cures" for covid-19 which means its a big non issue for everyone is complete BS

some medications have worked with some people, but its a long way from saying we have a cure and everyone can get infected without fear. if you start treatment too late, if you have some pre-existings, or if you are just the wrong dude, a lot of these options wont work

and here's the bit i dont get. whoever gets a cure for covid-19 will make billions. why would they hide it? the countries nailed by this (USA, EU, UK, India, Russia, Brazil, Mexico) are too diverse for it to be a part of the great replacement theory. and for those who think china is behind this, why would USA/EU pharma be supporting a chinese attempt to infect the world?

all this bullshit goes back 9 months, when idiots on this board were saying covid-19 was a pre-emptive chinese attack on the usa before they launched an invasion on the USA. last time i checked, they arent even ready to invade taiwan let alone the usa.

and as for your notion that this was fake in china, speak to people with family in the region. the body count was very much higher than reported (because of the nontesting of the dead, and clnical test methods not being accepted by the WHO). estimates that the true death toll was 20 fold the official number isnt even debated by people in china.

and as for now, if this was a nothing burger why are the chinese still locking down whole districts in Beijing and Shanghai when they find a single case? While not a wuhan style lockdown, its not far off it (you are jailed if you breach home detention)
Doesn't surprise me at all that China massively overstated the success of the lockdown. The Western leaders who followed their policy were fools.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Doesn't surprise me at all that China massively overstated the success of the lockdown. The Western leaders who followed their policy were fools.
This was prelockdown. When they did it, it worked a treat. The issue was it was a brutal sledgehammer approach.

If you were infected in wuhan you didn't get to stay at home, you were carted off to quarantine detention.

In other cities, people who breached home detention orders were jailed
 

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