Covid-19 Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Part 5 - Get vaccinated.

[Chief]

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infec...d-19-vaccination-case-surveillance-051121.pdf

In the peak fortnight of the outbreak to date (25 August to 7 September), the COVID-19 case rate among 2-dose vaccinated people was 49.5 per 100,000 while in unvaccinated people it was 561 per 100,000, a more than 10-fold difference. The rates of COVID-19 ICU admissions or deaths peaked in the fortnight 8 September to 21 September at 0.9 per 100,000 in 2-dose vaccinated people compared to 15.6 per 100,000 in unvaccinated people, a greater than 16-fold difference.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Any reply to the incidence of vaccine myocarditis being similar to existing vaccines like flu shot?

I couldn't care if it's not mandated and there is informed consent. Probably unwise to take it if you aren't in a high risk category.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I couldn't care if it's not mandated and there is informed consent. Probably unwise to take it if you aren't in a high risk category.

Whereas I do not give a s**t if it is mandated for everyone else because it is mandated for myself. So I do not care for the whinging of others in this subject.

 

[Chief]

Probably unwise to take it if you aren't in a high risk category.

This is simply nonsense.

 

[Chief]

You don't get to determine the truth of a work by how well liked someone is by people you like. That's not an argument founded in epistemology.

He doesn't listen to anyone else. Tries to make out he is virtuous and open minded.

He's an anti-vaxer who is highlighting anything that he thinks will get him clicks. He is gathering an audience, not seeking truth.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Same for Covid. The risk/benefit analysis should have been up to the individual.

No it was done by people with the knowledge and intelligence to make the decision.

I can read your opinion , but i doubt you went to medical school, so i'm ignoring the nonsense.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

This article is on smallpox , but something that stands out is how humans have not changed in all the time that has passed since that disease was a major health issue.

Smallpox - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The 5th photograph down has the caption.
Likely haemorrhagic smallpox during a 1925 Milwaukee, Wisconsin epidemic in a patient who later died. Patient described as an unvaccinated Christian Scientist, who "thought that he could by power of mind prevent smallpox.

That particular guy thought his Christianity would save him.
During covid , it seems there were multiple reasons people thought they were too good to succumb to a virus.

 

[sr36]

I couldn't care if it's not mandated and there is informed consent. Probably unwise to take it if you aren't in a high risk category.

What most of those arguing for informed consent don't seem to understand is that it takes a life time of study in the field to truly have informed consent. Few of us have the skills or time to read and fully understand scientific research papers and weigh up the probability. Where this differed from non-viral health issues is in the added potential risk imposed on others, so it wasn't just a case of it's his body, he's only harming/not harming himself.

 

[Malifice]

With so much still subjective and undetermined, the only moral decision is choice.

You had a choice.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

What most of those arguing for informed consent don't seem to understand is that it takes a life time of study in the field to truly have informed consent. Few of us have the skills or time to read and fully understand scientific research papers and weigh up the probability. Where this differed from non-viral health issues is in the added potential risk imposed on others, so it wasn't just a case of it's his body, he's only harming/not harming himself.

But vaccines don't prevent transmission, how is his decision to take a vaccine imposing risks on others?

 

[sr36]

But vaccines don't prevent transmission, how is his decision to take a vaccine imposing risks on others?

It depends how you define transmission. With the earlier strains they did have a very large impact on stopping people getting enough of a viral load to be detectable in a PCR test and as well as stopping symptoms in others who did still test positive.

Even with the latest strains, they still reduce the likelihood of someone transmitting the virus to others. With the earlier strains they reduced this likelihood enormously. It's all a bit moot now though as there is so much naturally acquired immunity in the community.

 

[Malifice]

But vaccines don't prevent transmission, how is his decision to take a vaccine imposing risks on others?

1) They reduce transmission. They slow it down. Giving health professionals time to treat the sick.

2) Because if no-one took the vaccine, our hospitals and ICU's would have been overwhelmed with ten to twenty times as many COVID patients, meaning literally tens of thousands of people would not have been able to get care for car accidents, strokes, heart attacks, trauma etc.

What about the risk to those people?

If all people are vaccinated two things occur; transmission is greatly slowed, and far fewer people get sick and require hospitalization (this is a compound effect). Of the people that DO get sick, they get the best possible care, and our ICU's and hospitals can continue to treat patients with other illnesses and diseases as well, because they're not full of very very sick COVID patients.

If everyone was a selfish cooker, then we'd all be screwed.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

1) They reduce transmission. They slow it down. Giving health professionals time to treat the sick.

2) Because if no-one took the vaccine, our hospitals and ICU's would have been overwhelmed with ten to twenty times as many COVID patients, meaning literally tens of thousands of people would not have been able to get care for car accidents, strokes, heart attacks, trauma etc.

What about the risk to those people?

If all people are vaccinated two things occur; transmission is greatly slowed, and far fewer people get sick and require hospitalization (this is a compound effect). Of the people that DO get sick, they get the best possible care, and our ICU's and hospitals can continue to treat patients with other illnesses and diseases as well, because they're not full of very very sick COVID patients.

If everyone was a selfish cooker, then we'd all be screwed.

Yet literally everyone was. You and Governments and a large portion of the world selfishly forced others to put their lives at risk to allegedly protect "grandma".

 

[Chief]

Yet literally everyone was. You and Governments and a large portion of the world selfishly forced others to put their lives at risk to allegedly protect them.

Lives at risk? In what way?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Lives at risk? In what way?

Proven incidents of life changing heart injuries, especially to young males, the same young males who were never at risk of Covid.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Proven incidents of life changing heart injuries, especially to young males, the same young males who were never at risk of Covid.

Bullshit.

Who?

Who the hell cares what crap you read on social media.

Fact Check-Most cases of myocarditis after COVID-19 vaccines are not irreversible

Medical experts on the basis of evidence so far disagree with claims made on social media that myocarditis following the COVID-19 vaccine is irreversible. Social media claims that “over the years,” many children diagnosed with myocarditis will die are unfounded, representatives...

www.reuters.com

 

[Red Black and Blue]

You had a choice.

So coercion is fine? How Harvey Weinstein of you.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So coercion is fine? How Harvey Weinstein of you.

They also coerce you to drive below the speed limit. No its nothing like Harvey Weinstein. Harvey Weinstein was using his personal position to coerce sexual favours with the victims career on the line. What's the analogy.

You are proof that people NEEDED coercion.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

They also coerce you to drive below the speed limit. No its nothing like Harvey Weinstein. Harvey Weinstein was using his personal position to coerce sexual favours with the victims career on the line. What's the analogy.

You are proof that people NEEDED coercion.

Unlike Weinstein they don’t threaten to black list you from work when you speed. The inherent risks from speeding are also well documented over decades so the risk benefit analysis is understood.

The talk of choice is nonsense. Some people are impervious to coercion but whether you are that person is entirely circumstantial. When coerced, choice only exists to those who are trait disagreeable.

 

[Malifice]

You and Governments and a large portion of the world selfishly forced others to put their lives at risk to allegedly protect "grandma".

Take it to the conspiracy board. I've heard enough from you to know where you stand on this.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Yet literally everyone was. You and Governments and a large portion of the world selfishly forced others to put their lives at risk to allegedly protect "grandma".

What risk dumb*? Your risk of covid death was higher than risk from vaccination. Particularly now with covid loose in community.

 

[Malifice]

So coercion is fine?

Yes it absolutely is fine. To combat the kinds of deliberate misinformation that led to these people dying:

sorryantivaxxer.com | stories of anti-vaxxers who died from COVID.

Every single person on that website got sucked into the antivaxx misinformation on social media sites, spread by wellness influencers, far right-wing loons and grifters trying to make a buck off the back of deliberate lies. They then spread that s**t via social media to other gullible people, and the end result, is what you see on that site.

Literally tens of thousands of people who died - but likely would have survived - if instead of believing in the misinformation had have instead taken the safe and efficacious vaccination that was freely available to them.

The 40's and under male demographic applies to around 5 million of Australia's total vaccinated population. That's roughly 500 cases of myocarditis linked to the vaccine (presuming they all took Pfizer, and the non-peer-reviewed study you posted is accurate).

15 males in that age demographic have died in Australia already, and thousands more have needed hospital admission or ICU.

COVID-19 Mortality in Australia, Deaths registered to 31 January 2022

From less than 5million of them infected, and despite the fact that most of them were vaccinated (we didnt open the borders till most were vaccinated). Unvaccinated the numbers would certainly be higher than 15 (likely 10 times higher), and hospitalization (and ICU) rates among that demographic would be through the roof if they were not vaccinated.

The background risk of myocarditis in that demographic is tiny, and when weighed against the overall benefits of being vaccinated (both individually, and socially), and against the need to combat misinformation, is a near nonissue.

Not only are they better off being vaccinated, but we as a society are also better off with them vaccinated.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Yes it absolutely is fine. To combat the kinds of deliberate misinformation that led to these people dying:

sorryantivaxxer.com | stories of anti-vaxxers who died from COVID.

Every single person on that website got sucked into the antivaxx misinformation on social media sites, spread by wellness influencers, far right-wing loons and grifters trying to make a buck off the back of deliberate lies. They then spread that s**t via social media to other gullible people, and the end result, is what you see on that site.

Literally tens of thousands of people who died - but likely would have survived - if instead of believing in the misinformation had have instead taken the safe and efficacious vaccination that was freely available to them.

The 40's and under male demographic applies to around 5 million of Australia's total vaccinated population. That's roughly 500 cases of myocarditis linked to the vaccine (presuming they all took Pfizer, and the non-peer-reviewed study you posted is accurate).

15 males in that age demographic have died in Australia already, and thousands more have needed hospital admission or ICU.

COVID-19 Mortality in Australia, Deaths registered to 31 January 2022

From less than 5million of them infected, and despite the fact that most of them were vaccinated (we didnt open the borders till most were vaccinated). Unvaccinated the numbers would certainly be higher than 15 (likely 10 times higher), and hospitalization (and ICU) rates among that demographic would be through the roof if they were not vaccinated.

The background risk of myocarditis in that demographic is tiny, and when weighed against the overall benefits of being vaccinated (both individually, and socially), and against the need to combat misinformation, is a near nonissue.

Not only are they better off being vaccinated, but we as a society are also better off with them vaccinated.

On no 25 people died from 5 million cases in their age bracket of a virus.

So that’s 1 per 200k. As opposed to the 1.6 per 100k with influenza. We have been absolutely fine with this amount of death as a society forever.

Serious adverse events of special interest following mRNA COVID-19 vaccination in randomized trials in adults

In 2020, prior to COVID-19 vaccine rollout, the Brighton Collaboration created a priority list, endorsed by the World Health Organization, of potentia…

www.sciencedirect.com

“3.4. Harm-benefit considerations​

In the Moderna trial, the excess risk of serious AESIs (15.1 per 10,000 participants) was higher than the risk reduction for COVID-19 hospitalization relative to the placebo group (6.4 per 10,000 participants). [3] In the Pfizer trial, the excess risk of serious AESIs (10.1 per 10,000) was higher than the risk reduction for COVID-19 hospitalization relative to the placebo group (2.3 per 10,000 participants).”

So when there’s no conflating of hospitalizations with all cause reasons and untested covid like the first few months, the outcome is more COVID-19 injuries in the vaccinated than unvaccinated.

Then there is the uk data for all causes mortality by age and vaccination status.

ONS Data Update, 6 July 2022

The Pattern Continues

excessburden.substack.com

Better off indeed.

 

[Schneebly11]

On no 25 people died from 5 million cases in their age bracket of a virus.

So that’s 1 per 200k. As opposed to the 1.6 per 100k with influenza. We have been absolutely fine with this amount of death as a society forever.

You’ve already been told that was for a recently vaccinated population vs an a mostly unvaccinated one.

The second point about death per 100k doesn’t take into account the different age profiles (young males vs everyone)

Stop being disingenuous

 

[Schneebly11]

So coercion is fine?

Were you protesting the ‘coercion’ of the previous vaccine mandates for health care workers or the mandates for childhood vaccination to get benefits and childcare admittance?

Why no ‘freedom rallies’ for those mandates?

 

[Red Black and Blue]

You’ve already been told that was for a recently vaccinated population vs an a mostly unvaccinated one.

The second point about death per 100k doesn’t take into account the different age profiles (young males vs everyone)

Stop being disingenuous

I don't care about the different age profiles. Anyone who is in a high risk age and health bracket, should get vaccinated, whatever the disease.

You also completely ignored the study that shows vaccinated fare worse with COVID serious injuries than unvaccinated.