WWE WrestleMania 36, Sun Apr 5th & Mon April 6th, 9am AEST (via tape delay magic)

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Filthy Sanchez

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Who says that’s the barometer? And do you know anyone who doesn’t watch wrestling that saw it? What did they think.
Catering to the smart fans hasn’t killed the WWE base at all, catering to tell them what they want instead of listening to what they actually want is what killed the fan base.
It was the most creative and different thing we’ve ever seen in WWE, let alone on a wrestlemania show. Of course it wasn’t real, none of it is! But I was actually lost for 20 Minutes suspending my disbelief because it was interesting
The very definition and origin of wrestling says so. Wrestling was a carnival feature designed to lure people in to either wrestle the performers or watch a wrestling contest. If the performers didn’t lure people in to pay to see the contest, they failed in their job. That’s where you get terms like mark. A mark is someone you want to lure in to watch the contest.

If you don’t capture the imagination or interest of new wrestling fans, then you’re not doing your job.

SuperCena killed off what was left of Attitude Era fans and since then it’s just been rusted on fans and kids (even that group seems to be fading too). Since CM Punk, they’ve clearly catered to rusted on internet fans, that’s why we don’t get storylines anymore, people are excited just to see a twenty minute match between Ziggler and Zayn.

I think it’s a shame if you don’t think believability is important to a wrestling match. To me that blurred line between what’s real and what’s fake is what makes wrestling so great. The funhouse match didn’t have that balance, it was just unashamedly 100% fake. It’s that sort of Russo mentality of “let the fans know that we know it’s fake” that started the culling of casual wrestling fans.
 

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A bearable Mania under the circumstances. Vince - It's time to move to Florida and the old folks home!

Happy for Braun and Drew. At least they are full timers.

Ladder match was good. Edge v Orton a slow build nice finish. Fiend v Cena a warped psychological journey but you couldn't leave the room you just had to see what happened next. Boneyard was well done. Otis pulling Mandy Rose leaves hope for blokes like me :)

Andrade drops the US title this week. His "punishment" for 30 day ban will be him teaming up with Garza and his fiance Charlotte feuding for the next couple of months against the Street Profits and Montez' wife Bianca Belair whom Charlotte will drop to.

Rhea was ripped off - sell the knee and come back on the main roster with a new outfit.

Oldberg and Porky Lesnar paydays are over hopefully.

Vince will need to cut some fat.

Rusev, Cesaro and Ziggler should be walking away. Lucha House Party and the Colons are OOC this year. Why the **** Tamina is still in WWE idk.

The IIconics need to return if Peyton Royce isn't pregnant.

No Way Jose, Curtis Axel, Bo Dallas, Curt Hawkins, Lars Sullivan, Fandango, Kalisto considerations for future endeavourment.
Who the heck is Tamina? Get her out of the wwe
 

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offtherails9

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The very definition and origin of wrestling says so. Wrestling was a carnival feature designed to lure people in to either wrestle the performers or watch a wrestling contest. If the performers didn’t lure people in to pay to see the contest, they failed in their job. That’s where you get terms like mark. A mark is someone you want to lure in to watch the contest.

If you don’t capture the imagination or interest of new wrestling fans, then you’re not doing your job.

SuperCena killed off what was left of Attitude Era fans and since then it’s just been rusted on fans and kids (even that group seems to be fading too). Since CM Punk, they’ve clearly catered to rusted on internet fans, that’s why we don’t get storylines anymore, people are excited just to see a twenty minute match between Ziggler and Zayn.

I think it’s a shame if you don’t think believability is important to a wrestling match. To me that blurred line between what’s real and what’s fake is what makes wrestling so great. The funhouse match didn’t have that balance, it was just unashamedly 100% fake. It’s that sort of Russo mentality of “let the fans know that we know it’s fake” that started the culling of casual wrestling fans.
Haha good post man. I pretty much agree with 100% of this post. I guess we just saw the match differently. That’s fine too. I just didn’t really see it as fake for some reason.
 

The Sim Dog

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Makes sense actually. Ripley gets to go after the other titles, and it lets Charlotte work with a number of younger female stars for that title. I bag Flair but she can sell feuds.
Work with only to beat in a way that hurts them like Rea? No one is as young or as good as Rea. This was hideously stupid. Can have Charlotte lose and continue to appear on NXT and or feud with Rea easy. Or if she must win have her do it like Becky did or cheat. Not just flat out beat the brightest young star they have.
 

The Sim Dog

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You think Braun and Goldberg are the two guys to get a long match out of? WWE trying to get 20 minutes out of Goldberg is what killed his original run in WWE, and Braun isn't much better. Lesnar could go longer but these days probably only with guys who can really work (Styles, Bryan, etc.). Essentially when you have old part timers carrying the belts, then you can't have them do the long, workrate epics. They've got to be hard-hitting and quick. You'd hope moving forward that they'd take these guys out of the title pictures so you can get those long main events through capable workers; however, you won't be getting wrestling classics from Braun either.
Lesnar is actually one of few who could pull off a slightly longer and more back and forth match in this setting. There is little excuse for the finisher only match. Was just absolute laziness.
 

Blackhawk42

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Getting in very early, but considering the success of both I wouldn’t he surprised to see an Undertaker and John Cena vs AJ Styles and Bray Wyatt match at WrestleMania 37.

Or if Taker and Cena are done, Styles vs Wyatt with the storyline revolving around who made the biggest impact at Mania just gone.
 

The Sim Dog

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Just catering to smart wrestling fans has killed the WWE fan base. I don’t see how you could engage with it in a multitude of ways. It was a few comical digs at WWE creative and the John Cena character.
Thing is they don't just cater to smart fans and when they try to they do it in stupid, insulting ways anyhow. They don't cater to anyone really and should be more worried about coming up with a product that generally makes more sense (outside of maybe a few genuinely interesting/creative pieces here and there) and doesn't have their wrestlers behave like idiots.

Instead of this near everything they do (apart from maybe this weekend and last month) is patterned, bland, sterile and makes the talent come off as cringe worthy morons.
 

The Sim Dog

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Wouldn’t you fit in that category?
Are the insults really necessary? And besides that he's 100% right in that apart from marks, rusted on whingers like us and kids young enough to not be bothered by how insulting the product is there isn't a whole lot left.
 

Mister M

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Are the insults really necessary? And besides that he's 100% right in that apart from marks, rusted on whingers like us and kids young enough to not be bothered by how insulting the product is there isn't a whole lot left.
This keeps get repeated that there “isn’t a whole lot left” in regards to audience—- yet the company has been more profitable the past few years than at any time in its history, still gets over 2-million US viewers a week for two separate TV shows & typically over 60k fans at Wrestlemania each year.
 

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Bomberboyokay

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Raw and SmackDown have had their worst ratings in recent months and the audience being remnants of people who got hooked before 2008 has been explained a bunch of times.
 

Mister M

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Raw and SmackDown have had their worst ratings in recent months and the audience being remnants of people who got hooked before 2008 has been explained a bunch of times.
But 2-million people is more than “not a whole lot less”.

TV ratings across the board for all TV shows have dropped significantly in the past 20 years.

Would you write the same about Survivor?
 

Filthy Sanchez

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This keeps get repeated that there “isn’t a whole lot left” in regards to audience—- yet the company has been more profitable the past few years than at any time in its history, still gets over 2-million US viewers a week for two separate TV shows & typically over 60k fans at Wrestlemania each year.
If I was completely shameless and sold my travelling circus to Saudi Arabia I could be more profitable than ever before as well.
 

The Sim Dog

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This keeps get repeated that there “isn’t a whole lot left” in regards to audience—- yet the company has been more profitable the past few years than at any time in its history, still gets over 2-million US viewers a week for two separate TV shows & typically over 60k fans at Wrestlemania each year.
Not sure where else it's being repeated and don't really care. Far as what you're quoting from me you aren't really quoting it correctly and are missing the point. I said apart from:

- rusted on types (us)
- what you might consider 'true' WWE fans (who somehow like and believe in all their sh*t)
- little kids and who ever takes them to events/shows (and don't otherwise give a crap)

there isn't a whole lot. The above groups at this point still add up to a healthy amount the WWE are making and have been able to make a decent amount of money out of over time. Good for them. Isn't helping them make new fans or keep the current ones.
 

Mister M

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Not sure where else it's being repeated and don't really care. Far as what you're quoting from me you aren't really quoting it correctly and are missing the point. I said apart from:

- rusted on types (us)
- what you might consider 'true' WWE fans (who somehow like and believe in all their sh*t)
- little kids and who ever takes them to events/shows (and don't otherwise give a crap)

there isn't a whole lot. The above groups at this point still add up to a healthy amount the WWE are making and have been able to make a decent amount of money out of over time. Good for them. Isn't helping them make new fans or keep the current ones.
Apologises— it wasn’t exclusively directed towards your post, more to the general ‘sentiment’ of many posters on here who are Doomsdayers; especially a few who hate on EVERYTHING the WWE does, even when they don’t watch it.

I understand your view— but I personally think it’s hyperbole because as I mentioned— the WWE is more profitable now than during the Attitude Era, the Tv deals are bigger, the WWE is producing more quality content on an average week than they did in a month in the 90’s (once again, my opinion)

I guess I’m more frustrated by the doomsdayers on here who over Wrestlemania weekend spend more time whinging about ‘how bad’ it is rather than enjoying that we’ve at least still got new content to enjoy.
 

Bomberboyokay

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2008 onward is when WWE really started shooting itself in both feet. John Cena, the refusal to turn him heel, and overall pissy stories and characters was shot one. Roman Reigns and the audience realising this was permanent was shot two. Any new viewers in that time last a year max before realising who always wins when it matters and leave too.
 

The Sim Dog

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I understand your view— but I personally think it’s hyperbole because as I mentioned— the WWE is more profitable now than during the Attitude Era, the Tv deals are bigger, the WWE is producing more quality content on an average week than they did in a month in the 90’s (once again, my opinion)
Feel like we're talking about two different aspects here. The sentiment is generally related to booking and what we might consider traditional wrestling content and it's ability or lack there of to engage, keep or create new fans.

The other aspect is non wrestling/corporate performance. I don't think you'll get arguments from anyone that the WWE are and always have been amazing at this and it's how the WWE set themselves apart from the small territories in the first place. To see themselves as something bigger and figure out a way to make money from that and in a way that shields themselves from ups and downs in key metrics.

Opinion or not surely you can see the profits are from fans established a long time ago and in much larger numbers then than now and other things that don't necessarily indicate fan engagement or growth. And again good on WWE for being able to exploit that. Not criticising their ability to make money or market themselves extremely effectively.
 

LukeParkerno1

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2008 onward is when WWE really started shooting itself in both feet. John Cena, the refusal to turn him heel, and overall pissy stories and characters was shot one. Roman Reigns and the audience realising this was permanent was shot two. Any new viewers in that time last a year max before realising who always wins when it matters and leave too.
Cena main eventing and winning everything was horrible thank goodness he’s gone now
 

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