YES, the football league. (and should the AFL comment on social issues)

[Aramis]

One is disengaged or lazy and the other is undecided.

Again, what's your point?

Conveniently removed the last sentence of my post, that was my point. Selective quoting.

 

[Aramis]

Are you influenced by the AFL?

A lot of people would be... all those undecided, disengaged voters having pressure applied to their cranium from every conceivable angle. Im a yes voter and i'm finding it unbearable.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Thats not what I say saying and if thats what you're extrapolating from what I said, i'm disappointed.

You're disappointed. Congratulations.

You seem determined to pivot to more significant, more pressing crises. Yes, 300 people have died in Mmexico. What's your point? That is not an argument to ignore the debate around SSM.

The fact i'm trying to make is that SSM is a non-issue, the government should have made the call and thats that... its just a "created problem".

There are two things going on here.

One is a criticism about the process and whether the government should simply have acted without the vote. I think there's merit in that view, but the vote is happening so there's no point pretending otherwise.

Secondly, SSM should be a non-issue. But it's an issue currently for those affected. That's the point.

 

[chiwigi]

Then why does everyone have to vote? If I have to vote, it's apparently got SOMETHING to do with me.

We are so god damn precious in this country, political madness..... We need some real issues, spending 100 million on some ridiculous vote so heterosexual people can decide on homosexual rights has got to be the most idiotic idea ever conceived. You know where that money could have gone? Helping countries in the international community with REAL issues... like helping people in Mexico where 200+ just died in a massive earthquake.

They don't have to vote, this charade has been created by those who wish for others not to have similar rights.
It's absurd that it is being used as a political football.

The NO capmpaign have DESIGNED this confrontation, it is the exact reason for them demanding a plebiscite and then backdooring a postal vote.

They then cry when they are told they are being dicks.

 

[Ry009]

It would, however, invite the question: why should your beliefs govern how other people live?

What is the limit to that?

If a group of fundamentalist Christians wanted to ban drinking, gambling and premarital sex because it "did not align with their beliefs", should everyone else be compelled to "respect" that?

I'd suggest that, actually, a ferocious push-back against religious overreach would be more fitting. Put it up in neon lights: just because you believe something, it doesn't mean you have the right to make everyone else comply.

It's one thing to respect everyone's right to an opinion and to make up their own minds and have their own agency. It's another to respect whatever they say, even if it amounts to imposing their beliefs on others. There's no magic rule that everyone has to respect that.

Sorry I should clarify, I respect their right to free speech if presented in a constructive manner, I don't respect the content.

That being said, it's infinitely more respect than they have deserved thus far.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Conveniently removed the last sentence of my post, that was my point. Selective quoting.

Is there a rule that you have to quote an entire post?

I answered your question but still don't see your point.

A lot of people would be... all those undecided, disengaged voters having pressure applied to their cranium from every conceivable angle.

Are you Tweek from South Park? The pressure! The pressure!

 

[The_Wookie]

No one gives a stuff what the AFL thinks...

40 pages here say otherwise.

 

[Antares]

How would moving to a fascist dictatorship satisfy my need for democratic results?

Because you're clearly uninterested in a democracy.

People did vote against Trump, more voted against him than for him. It was simply the design of the US electoral system that got him elected.

The same system that takes away California & New York's capacity to dictate the entire country?

All this is, is a 120 million dollar opinion poll, despite the fact that numerous have been conducted over the previous years. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-...supports-it-and-who-doesnt-hilda-data/8856884

Case in point: the same kind of polls that predicted Hillary and Remain for overwhelming wins?
No wonder you're so keen on the Government to pass this through parliament without giving people a say; deep down you know there's a real chance of no winning, and like Trump and Brexit, the idiotic, authoritarian lefties are unintentionally doing their utmost best to get No over the line.

 

[DemonTim]

Because you're clearly uninterested in a democracy.


The same system that takes away California & New York's capacity to dictate the entire country?


Case in point: the same kind of polls that predicted Hillary and Remain for overwhelming wins?
No wonder you're so keen on the Government to pass this through parliament without giving people a say; deep down you know there's a real chance of no winning, and like Trump and Brexit, the idiotic, authoritarian lefties are unintentionally doing their utmost best to get No over the line.

Except that this is being relied on a popular vote...
So trump winning more electoral colleges has no bearing.

Is this just the conservatives go to now? "Oh you said Hilary would win and she didn't so therefore every poll is wrong"

 

[Chief]

Because you're clearly uninterested in a democracy.


The same system that takes away California & New York's capacity to dictate the entire country?


Case in point: the same kind of polls that predicted Hillary and Remain for overwhelming wins?
No wonder you're so keen on the Government to pass this through parliament without giving people a say; deep down you know there's a real chance of no winning, and like Trump and Brexit, the idiotic, authoritarian lefties are unintentionally doing their utmost best to get No over the line.

It'd be more that the conservative groups are trying to obfuscate.

They are making it a referendum on "PC lefties telling everyone what to do".

Whatever the referendum result, the next parliament will probably bring in SSM.

Generally on polls, they are a sample with a margin for error. They can predict incorrectly.

 

[Big Animal]

For an organisation that assists companies to push gambling to within an inch of it's life on it's customers, let alone benefiting significantly from alcohol advertising which causes more damage within our community than just about any other issue, call me cynical, but large corporations cherry picking social issues to 'stand up for' is just carefully determined by board/executive/inhouse legal/and marketing to improve reputation for their brand which just gets an eye roll from me. Good on Carlton, WC, Freo, and others for staying out of it.

FTR - I am not participating in the survey and am trying to stay out of the gutter where most of us are being dragged into with the so-called 'debate'. Having said that, I don't have a problem with the survey provided everyone just shuts the hell up, tick a box if they want to, and sends their forms back or bins them. I got real tired of talking heads in the media and 'celebrities' giving us their opinion and then telling us they we, the dumb public below them, should not get a say if we want to just like they have. Why shouldn't we all have a say if we want to. It's a large social change to our country. If it was a small issue how come we have so much screaming from both sides, a former prime minister assaulted in the street, a bombing, people marching in the streets.

 

[simba_]

Are you influenced by the AFL?

i personally am not, but you can't deny the power of big money advertising (which is all it is), peoples thoughts are influenced by companies every minute of every day, this is common knowledge to people in these fields

 

[Forward Press]

40 pages here say otherwise.

Can I ask why the previous one was moved to SRP and this one hasn't? Especially since it seems barely anyone is interested in discussing the AFL's support for the Yes side anyway and it's now an overall debate on the SSM issue?

 

[Aramis]

Is there a rule that you have to quote an entire post?

I answered your question but still don't see your point.

Are you Tweek from South Park? The pressure! The pressure!

When you're in debate with someone, yes; The rule of not being a complete muppet.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

i personally am not

Yet you assume everyone else will be?

but you can't deny the power of big money advertising (which is all it is), peoples thoughts are influenced by companies every minute of every day

Has the AFL adopted this approach to support SSM?

 

[JeffDunne]

Conservatives are trying to convince themselves that they're suffering worse persecution than gays ever felt.

It's hilarious to watch.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

When you're in debate with someone, yes

Rubbish. You asked a question - I answered it. And your point is still a mystery.

 

[Antares]

It'd be more that the conservative groups are trying to obfuscate.

They are making it a referendum on "PC lefties telling everyone what to do".

Whatever the referendum result, the next parliament will probably bring in SSM.

Generally on polls, they are a sample with a margin for error. They can predict incorrectly.

It's working. It's also showing the true nature of a lot of these activists, much as the aformentioned 2016 events did.

Instead of blaming conservatives, maybe you should blame people like this-

 

[Aramis]

40 pages here say otherwise.

Shock horror a football forum discussing the head football bodies agenda.
Stay with me, this is long winded but I'd argue people care more about (and dislike) the AFL having this sense of entitlement to weigh in on political issues than actually what the AFL are saying which people don't necessarily care about.

 

[DemonTim]

It's working. It's also showing the true nature of a lot of these activists, much as the aformentioned 2016 events did.

Instead of blaming conservatives, maybe you should blame people like this-

Lol "instead of blaming people who voted no, maybe you should blame the people voting yes, who no supporters cowardly claim forced them to vote no"

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

But their desire to get married is about them.

It's certainly not about you.

The recognition of that marriage is entirely about those who are being required, under threat of legal sanction, to do the recognising.

The question on the ballot says "allow". Same sex couples are already "allowed" to marry. They don't get arrested for it.

The Bill behind the vote is about legal recognition. And who may or may not be exempt from doing the recognising.

 

[DemonTim]

Shock horror a football forum discussing the head football bodies agenda.
Stay with me, this is long winded but I'd argue people care more about (and dislike) the AFL having this sense of entitlement to weigh in on political issues than actually what the AFL are saying which people don't necessarily care about.

If no one gave a stuff about what the afl thinks, then no one would give a stuff if they weighed in or not
You've literally spent pages discussing what the AFL thinks, while trying to claim no one cares.

 

[PrideOverPower]

Yes but I mean

A religious belief that that overrules basic human equality is extreme. In my view.

Yes but I mean the AFL have treated this situation with him the same way the Project has with Waleed Aly, kept it quiet in his presence because they want the PC cred from 2 confilicting minorities

 

[Aramis]

Rubbish. You asked a question - I answered it. And your point is still a mystery.

And again...

"One is disengaged or lazy and the other is undecided." Ok cool, thats the inherent difference....
Whats the difference on result at large and in perspective of the average "yes" voter?
You know where i'm heading with this, so I'll save you the time... they are all being treated like bigoted fools, simply put... if you don't agree 100% with voting yes no matter what state you're in you are getting bullied by the loud minority.

 

[Aramis]

If no one gave a stuff about what the afl thinks, then no one would give a stuff if they weighed in or not
You've literally spent pages discussing what the AFL thinks, while trying to claim no one cares.

I don't care what they said, I care they felt the need to say anything. Big difference