You should be Ashamed

[Countrypie]

Remind me exactly what he said in public again?

Mostly there were different interpretations from different camps about what was said in private.

I thought Buckley remained silent.
He denied the original quote.
Adz doubled down.
As far as I know Buckley never made further comment>
I have my own personal theories about what transpired but there's no doubt BUckley & the club lost the PR battle

 

[MyManLynch]

The words spoken publicly by Buckley regarding Adam's relationship with his teammates were frankly unsavoury. Not Nathan's proudest moment either.

Wasn’t there a bit of he said, she said…with that.

 

[Brad Goodman]

Source?

I think he had his wires crossed.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I thought Buckley remained silent.
He denied the original quote.
Adz doubled down.
As far as I know Buckley never made further comment>
I have my own personal theories about what transpired but there's no doubt BUckley & the club lost the PR battle

Yes, that’s my recollection too. He said nothing in public at the time.

People who are making judgments about what Buckley said haven’t actually heard what he said to be able to make such judgments. They are basing their judgements off what the Treloar camp said occurred and taking that as gospel. Reality is that nobody knows what was said, and in what context, and whether or not it was misinterpreted.

 

[76woodenspooners]

The club would have been damned whatever they did …

Option 1: We kick the can further down the track. We keep the players by continuing to back end contracts. This maxes out our cap for years to come. And then when we eventually find ourselves down the bottom of the ladder and no means to get ourselves up we would really be up s**t creek.

Option 2: Simply be honest and say that we had a serious crack at Premierships, it didn’t work out, we need to do a rebuild of some form. We no longer have the salary cap space to afford players, we need to move some out. The club would have been pilloried for telegraphing to the rest of the competition that we were in a vulnerable negotiation position and getting nothing for trading out the players (as is partially what happened)

Option 3: We blame Treloar’s partner for moving to Brisbane. We tell Treloar that he’s lost the support of the leadership. We flail around with all kinds excuses and it becomes a PR disaster. (As partially what happened)

Option 4: Avoid getting into the predicament in the first place. If that’d happened the club would have been blamed for not going all out to win Premierships by maxing out the salary cap … FFS, we would have had a dynasty of ‘18 ‘19, ‘20 !!! The Magpie army would quickly go from a figurative thing to a literal thing. There’d be calls to turf out everybody from the President to the bootstudder.

Option 5: Have I missed any?

Unfortunately we live in a bizzaro universe …

Option 1 would have been the worst for Collingwood’s future prospects, but nobody would have complained about it until some time in the future when it became somebody else’s problem. We’d have no EGM threat. Jeff Browne would be flailing around for some other excuse to become President.

Option 4 would have made many fans spew forth green bile, and yet many (including Browne) appear to be advocating that’s what we should have done?

We attempted Option 3, but everybody quickly figured out Option 2 was the reality.

 

[Countrypie]

Yes, that’s my recollection too. He said nothing in public at the time.

People who are making judgments about what Buckley said haven’t actually heard what he said to be able to make such judgments. They are basing their judgements off what the Treloar camp said occurred and taking that as gospel. Reality is that nobody knows what was said, and in what context, and whether or not it was misinterpreted.

Here's the thing. I don't think Buckley said what is claimed to have been said, but I think Adz heard that.

I know that's possible because I've been living my own private nightmare where quotes attributed to me by somebody (who was and still should be) close to me are patently untrue and the person claiming that truth vehemently believes what they're saying. What's more the person is playing the victim and getting lots of sympathy from people I thought would have known better. It's a classic accusation/denial situation where I can't win.

Some people have difficulty comprehending criticism/feedback/honesty. Their defences go into overdrive and they take offence at things they think were said.

I know. I wish I didn't but I know.

 

[Carringbush2010]

The club would have been damned whatever they did …

Option 1: We kick the can further down the track. We keep the players by continuing to back end contracts. This maxes out our cap for years to come. And then when we eventually find ourselves down the bottom of the ladder and no means to get ourselves up we would really be up sh*t creek.

Option 2: Simply be honest and say that we had a serious crack at Premierships, it didn’t work out, we need to do a rebuild of some form. We no longer have the salary cap space to afford players, we need to move some out. The club would have been pilloried for telegraphing to the rest of the competition that we were in a vulnerable negotiation position and getting nothing for trading out the players (as is partially what happened)

Option 3: We blame Treloar’s partner for moving to Brisbane. We tell Treloar that he’s lost the support of the leadership. We flail around with all kinds excuses and it becomes a PR disaster. (As partially what happened)

Option 4: Avoid getting into the predicament in the first place. If that’d happened the club would have been blamed for not going all out to win Premierships by maxing out the salary cap … FFS, we would have had a dynasty of ‘18 ‘19, ‘20 !!! The Magpie army would quickly go from a figurative thing to a literal thing. There’d be calls to turf out everybody from the President to the bootstudder.

Option 5: Have I missed any?

Unfortunately we live in a bizzaro universe …

Option 1 would have been the worst for Collingwood’s future prospects, but nobody would have complained about it until some time in the future when it became somebody else’s problem. We’d have no EGM threat. Jeff Browne would be flailing around for some other excuse to become President.

Option 4 would have made many fans spew forth green bile, and yet many (including Browne) appear to be advocating that’s what we should have done?

We attempted Option 3, but everybody quickly figured out Option 2 was the reality.

So on option 2, have you heard anyone lambasting the club coz they've admitted (finally - after the balls up trade period) that we're in rebuild coz 'ooh we don't wan the competition to know'

Did norf fans go to Arden street with pitch forks and jerry cans when they declined after 2015? Yeah nah, what about Freo? Yeah nah - the bulk of both fan bases knew.

• What the club should've NOT done,
• all those years ago was bring in grubby and let Balme go,
• not bring in Wells and Mayne on stupefying contracts.
• Not send out insulting emails about 'how excited we are about the draft period' after the debacle of a trade.
• Not make stupefying backending of contracts that got us to that fk up of a trade period.
• Not bend over for grundy on his contract
• Options 1,3 and whatever 5 is.

Yes we should've done option 2 and by extension 4, most of the Pie fan base is smart enough to know when we're not contending anymore, and only morons would ' blame the club for not going all out to win Premierships by maxing out the salary cap … FFS, we would have had a dynasty of ‘18 ‘19, ‘20 !!! '

Only people with the IQ of a shoe size would have any belief that the side in those 3 years could ever be a 'dynasty'

I feel like you're insulting some of the fans thinking they're too stupid to understand what you're saying.

Time to pull it up mate, stop making excuses for the fk heads that made these decisions. We'd be in a much better rebuild position without those moronic decisions.

 

[jathanas]

Depends on what you believe about who said what, and in what context.

Treloar being traded was not his fault but the club, having determined what a hole it had dug for itself, chose the right players to move on.

I'm not one to bash the club at every opportunity but in this case I will afford Treloar the benefit of the doubt.

Joined the club to play under his AIS coach, agreed to be flexible in his payment terms to help the club achieve success, and was a model citizen when with us.

Discarded because the club managed the salary cap badly.

Was Treloar the right midfielder to let go? In hindsight keeping Sidebottom over him wasn't a brilliant move and overall the savings would have been around the same given we're still part-paying Adam's contract.

 

[76woodenspooners]

So on option 2, have you heard anyone lambasting the club coz they've admitted (finally - after the balls up trade period) that we're in rebuild coz 'ooh we don't wan the competition to know'

My point wasn’t about rebuilding.

My point was about getting stuff all for our trades because we’d telegraphed to the comp that we were desperate to clear the salary cap. Although, to be fair, it would have been pretty damn obvious … Bulldogs: “You’re asking us if we’re interested in Adam Treloar on a backended contract because why?”

And to answer your question, yeah, I have heard folks lambast the club for friggen everything. We go from 13th to a kick from a Premiership in a single season, and a fair few folks seem to be lambasting the club got maxing out the cap during the period that happened!!!

Did norf fans go to Arden street with pitch forks and jerry cans when they declined after 2015? Yeah nah, what about Freo? Yeah nah - the bulk of both fan bases knew.

You can’t compare fan bases of different clubs.

For example, it takes two decades of rotten performances including five wooden spoons, plus no finals for a decade for Carlton fans to finally launch an EGM.

By contrast Collingwood only need a season starting 2-6 and a new board member to have an Insta pic of her wearing a Bulldogs AFLW guernsey, and a 11 year old tweet cheering for the opposition, to kick off an EGM petition.

[*]all those years ago was bring in grubby and let Balme go,

With the benefit hindsight, sure. But we didn’t see too many people complaining about bringing in Gubby Allen at the time, just as we we didn’t see too many people complaining about Graeme Wright.

[*] not bring in Wells and Mayne on stupefying contracts.

Wells - sure, that was a Hail Mary punt that didn’t come off.
Mayne - nobody would be complaining if we’d kicked another goal in 2018 GF.

[*]Not send out insulting emails about 'how excited we are about the draft period' after the debacle of a trade.

You have to admit, even with the benefit of hindsight our draft period was pretty decent?

[*]Not make stupefying backending of contracts that got us to that fk up of a trade period.

So you’re advocating we should have gone for Option 4?

[*]Not bend over for grundy on his contract

You would have been cool for us to let our AA ruckman walk?

Maybe he would have. Maybe he wouldn’t have. But if you’re saying we “‘not bend over for …” then that only happens if we’re prepared to let him walk.

FWIW … How often do we let A grade players walk? I can’t remember the last time it happened. Maybe it’s a sign that we do sign our players ‘at any cost’?

Yes we should've done option 2 and by extension 4, most of the Pie fan base is smart enough to know when we're not contending anymore, and only morons would ' blame the club for not going all out to win Premierships by maxing out the salary cap … FFS, we would have had a dynasty of ‘18 ‘19, ‘20 !!! '

Huh? Sure, we’re not contending today, but we were contending during that 2018 - 2020 period when our cap was maxed out?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'm not one to bash the club at every opportunity but in this case I will afford Treloar the benefit of the doubt.

Joined the club to play under his AIS coach, agreed to be flexible in his payment terms to help the club achieve success, and was a model citizen when with us.

Discarded because the club managed the salary cap badly.

Was Treloar the right midfielder to let go? In hindsight keeping Sidebottom over him wasn't a brilliant move and overall the savings would have been around the same given we're still part-paying Adam's contract.

You didn’t answer my question. What exactly was it that Buckley said in public about Treloar and the playing group?

We all understand about the cap mismanagement and agree that it was tough on Treloar to be the one selected to go….but somebody had to. And it had to be somebody highly paid, with trade value (albeit a Franco cozzo grand sale), and maybe a bit flawed so we could cover their losses. All three players ticked those boxes.

Whether or not it should have been Sidebottom is a completely seperate question. Although I doubt Sidebottom would have been remotely in the same ball park in terms of trade value for 2020 draft picks or for salary cap relief in the long term. But that’s all off topic. You said Buckley publicly said bad things about Treloar. So what did he say exactly? In public?

 

[jathanas]

You didn’t answer my question. What exactly was it that Buckley said in public about Treloar and the playing group?

We all understand about the cap mismanagement and agree that it was tough on Treloar to be the one selected to go….but somebody had to. And it had to be somebody highly paid, with trade value (albeit a Franco cozzo grand sale), and maybe a bit flawed so we could cover their losses. All three players ticked those boxes.

Whether or not it should have been Sidebottom is a completely seperate question. Although I doubt Sidebottom would have been remotely in the same ball park in terms of trade value for 2020 draft picks or for salary cap relief in the long term. But that’s all off topic. You said Buckley publicly said bad things about Treloar. So what did he say exactly? In public?

This is digressing, but there you go. You're right, it wasn't made public by Buckley.

The point remains, in my view the club managed this very badly.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

That’s not digressing… you finally have answered my original question. Buckley never said anything publicly along those lines, and denies saying it privately.

I don’t think there was ever going to be an easy way to manage our way out of this debacle but it’s fair to say Phillips and Stephenson handled it in a far more professional manner than Treloar did.

And full circle back to today’s news story, Kim Ravallion has basically confirmed that Collingwoods concerns about his proposed living arrangements were well founded and have come to fruition.

 

[Countrypie]

This is digressing, but there you go. You're right, it wasn't made public by Buckley.

The point remains, in my view the club managed this very badly.

View attachment 1229827

Here's where it gets really murky.
Who let it play out n the media ?- who leaked the alleged conversation to the media?
How do you even begin to get control of this narrative when someone was leaking like a sieve?
I agree the club could have handled it better ....and perhaps they should have been more cognisant of the fact that the Treloar camp could go nuclear...which I suspect they did.
As I alluded to earlier -I've had direct experience with people not wanting to accept hard truths and reframing the language either deliberately or as a sort of personal shield to portray themselves in a better light.
Adam's behaviour in the last couple of weeks on field has been painful to watch. Hs body language has been terrible. It betrays a young man in some sort of turmoil. I haven't enjoyed it at all and there is no pleasure to be had in watching what could potentially become a train wreck.
I hope he gets himself together and I hope he torches Port this weekend. But there's something going on with him that suggests maybe the club wasn't the complete villain that we all thought them to be.
I hate discussing this stuff. A lot of what I'm dancing around is pretty close to the bone.
I loved Adz when he played for us. I want him to be successful. I fear for his long term well being

 

[Countrypie]

That’s not digressing… you finally have answered my original question. Buckley never said anything publicly along those lines, and denies saying it privately.

I don’t think there was ever going to be an easy way to manage our way out of this debacle but it’s fair to say Phillips and Stephenson handled it in a far more professional manner than Treloar did.

And full circle back to today’s news story, Kim Ravallion has basically confirmed that Collingwoods concerns about his proposed living arrangements were well founded and have come to fruition.

Where's the article on that

 

[jathanas]

That’s not digressing… you finally have answered my original question. Buckley never said anything publicly along those lines, and denies saying it privately.

I don’t think there was ever going to be an easy way to manage our way out of this debacle but it’s fair to say Phillips and Stephenson handled it in a far more professional manner than Treloar did.

And full circle back to today’s news story, Kim Ravallion has basically confirmed that Collingwoods concerns about his proposed living arrangements were well founded and have come to fruition.

The article does state that "he was portrayed publicly as hard to coach" and in this case I'll take the player's word.

The club was in a pickle and threw him under a bus.

My view is different to yours. Peace.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Where's the article on that

Herald sun

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The article does state that "he was portrayed publicly as hard to coach" and in this case I'll take the player's word.

The club was in a pickle and threw him under a bus.

My view is different to yours. Peace.

Maybe Bucks wanted him to run two ways a lot more. I wonder what Beveridge is thinking.

No denying he was thrown under the bus but some of the reasons it was him not somebody else go back to the weaknesses in his game.

 

[jathanas]

Here's where it gets really murky.
Who let it play out n the media ?- who leaked the alleged conversation to the media?
How do you even begin to get control of this narrative when someone was leaking like a sieve?
I agree the club could have handled it better ....and perhaps they should have been more cognisant of the fact that the Treloar camp could go nuclear...which I suspect they did.
As I alluded to earlier -I've had direct experience with people not wanting to accept hard truths and reframing the language either deliberately or as a sort of personal shield to portray themselves in a better light.
Adam's behaviour in the last couple of weeks on field has been painful to watch. Hs body language has been terrible. It betrays a young man in some sort of turmoil. I haven't enjoyed it at all and there is no pleasure to be had in watching what could potentially become a train wreck.
I hope he gets himself together and I hope he torches Port this weekend. But there's something going on with him that suggests maybe the club wasn't the complete villain that we all thought them to be.
I hate discussing this stuff. A lot of what I'm dancing around is pretty close to the bone.
I loved Adz when he played for us. I want him to be successful. I fear for his long term well being

Yes, this is what grates.

The lack of respect for the player as an individual and zero concern for his well-being.

 

[Countrypie]

Maybe Bucks wanted him to run two ways a lot more. I wonder what Beveridge is thinking.

No denying he was thrown under the bus but some of the reasons it was him not somebody else go back to the weaknesses in his game.

I don't know where I heard it but the review of the Geelong game was sad to be brutal. Treloar's 1 way running was apparently highlighted

 

[Countrypie]

Yes, this is what grates.

The lack of respect for the player as an individual and zero concern for his well-being.

I agree - but what role did AT's manager play in all of this?

 

[jathanas]

Maybe Bucks wanted him to run two ways a lot more. I wonder what Beveridge is thinking.

No denying he was thrown under the bus but some of the reasons it was him not somebody else go back to the weaknesses in his game.

Watching him play last week was difficult.

The guy isn't right. I empathise with him because over the last few days this has hit close to home so it's a little raw.

I'd like to think that he would have been happier if he was at the club due to the support network.

 

[Countrypie]

Watching him play last week was difficult.

The guy isn't right. I empathise with him because over the last few days this has hit close to home so it's a little raw.

I'd like to think that he would have been happier if he was at the club due to the support network.

Very difficult. As was the first half against Essendon. The body language then was plain awful. His 2nd half papered over the cracks but they were well on top by the time he started to have an impact.

 

[Coathangered]

Very difficult. As was the first half against Essendon. The body language then was plain awful. His 2nd half papered over the cracks but they were well on top by the time he started to have an impact.

I always thought he was a disappointment & overrated. We paid so much to get him and along the way, you'd have hoped for more output than he delivered IMO. Didn’t hurt by foot & accumulated stats for mine.
The fallout was messy & more than poorly handled by the club no question & we lost big by getting next to nothing for him, but I was not surprised at all.

 

[Countrypie]

I always thought he was a disappointment & overrated. We paid so much to get him and along the way, you'd have hoped for more output than he delivered IMO. Didn’t hurt by foot & accumulated stats for mine.
The fallout was messy & more than poorly handled by the club no question & we lost big by getting next to nothing for him, but I was not surprised at all.

I can see why you think that.

The Treloar pre double hammies was perhaps our most exciting player on the list. There was a game against Hawthorn where he played out of his skin and I went home thinking he could be a potential brownlow winner. He always seemed to be built to play on the outside, but we kept playing him inside.

After the double hammies, he never got back to that explosive burst player that could break lines.
I still wonder what he could have done with fit hammies in those last 90 seconds in 2018 when he was running down the wing. Logic says he would have run another 10 metres and perhaps place the ball to greater advantage.

Whatever the case right now, it doesn't look good

 

[mike123]

I can see why you think that.

The Treloar pre double hammies was perhaps our most exciting player on the list. There was a game against Hawthorn where he played out of his skin and I went home thinking he could be a potential brownlow winner. He always seemed to be built to play on the outside, but we kept playing him inside.

After the double hammies, he never got back to that explosive burst player that could break lines.
I still wonder what he could have done with fit hammies in those last 90 seconds in 2018 when he was running down the wing. Logic says he would have run another 10 metres and perhaps place the ball to greater advantage.

Whatever the case right now, it doesn't look good

I think allot people are forgetting how electric he was pre the double hammy, if he got the ball centre wing in a bit of space and there’s every chance he’d be dobbing it from 50 a few seconds later. He had the acceleration back then to break away from stoppage so he could play inside.

Post double hammy his acceleration was gone still decent speed after a few steps but could no longer break away like before. I think playing on the outside would have suited his natural game better but the club decided he was needed on the inside where he became a Tom Mitchell clone.