You should be Ashamed

[jonbe54]

I’d be flattered if Jayden Stephenson gave a rats clacker what I think.

Let's not project this to ourselves personally - I'm talking about people here, not you or I or even Jayden - something which some sooks apparently can't comprehend . . but to be more specific.

Self indulgent people do thrive on being indulged but not thrive in a good way. It validates their behaviour and does them no favours.

I do speak from first hand close experience here as my eldest brother was exactly this character type.

If you reinforce their self indulgence enough the results are not pretty.

I'm actually devastated personally at what has happened to Jayden because it mirrors what happened to my super talented older brother in his early years, sadly he went steadily downhill and the end wasn't pretty at all.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Let's not project this to ourselves personally - I'm talking about people here, not you or I or even Jayden - something which some sooks apparently can't comprehend . . but to be more specific.

Self indulgent people do thrive on being indulged but not thrive in a good way. It validates their behaviour and does them no favours.

I do speak from first hand close experience here as my eldest brother was exactly this character type.

If you reinforce their self indulgence enough the results are not pretty.

I'm actually devastated personally at what has happened to Jayden because it mirrors what happened to my super talented older brother in his early years, sadly he went steadily downhill and the end wasn't pretty at all.

You can’t compare two people’s lived experiences.

No doubt Stephenson is dealing with his challenges, but you or I would have zero idea about what the causal factors are.

Any serious, experienced, professional psychologist would quickly assess Stephenson’s situation with “I’d have NFI what Stephenson is dealing with without treating him in a clinical context, let alone putting together a treatment plan for him”.

So what would you or I know?

 

[jonbe54]

You can’t compare two people’s lived experiences.

No doubt Stephenson is dealing with his challenges, but you or I would have zero idea about what the causal factors are.

Any serious, experienced, professional psychologist would quickly assess Stephenson’s situation with “I’d have NFI what Stephenson is dealing with without treating him in a clinical context, let alone putting together a treatment plan for him”. So what would you or I know?

We each follow our path through life '76 and no two paths are the same or more or less worthy, I've lived a long one and a harsh one with with harsh experiences throughout.

We will not see eye to this and I suspect most here will disagree, I speak from my personal experiences which have been indelibly impressed by circumstance and I won't be cowed into silence by disapproval.

Moreover I respect your opinion which comes from your experience therefore I expect the same in return.

 

[noideaatall]

We each follow our path through life '76 and no two paths are the same or more or less worthy, I've lived a long one and a harsh one with with harsh experiences throughout.

We will not see eye to this and I suspect most here will disagree, I speak from my personal experiences which have been indelibly impressed by circumstance and I won't be cowed into silence by disapproval.

Moreover I respect your opinion which comes from your experience therefore I expect the same in return.

There is an idea around the teaching of children they need 7 positives to balance one negative. I can't speak to you, your brother or JS. Consequences are effective but the term tough love reeks of shutting the door to me. Love doesn't have to mean endless chances but wracking this guy clearly hasn't worked.

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

Wonder if this thread comes back to life if/when Grundy goes and we are footing some of the bill.

Geez that previous administration were a beauty when it came to contract time.

 

[jonbe54]

There is an idea around the teaching of children they need 7 positives to balance one negative. I can't speak to you, your brother or JS. Consequences are effective but the term tough love reeks of shutting the door to me. Love doesn't have to mean endless chances but wracking this guy clearly hasn't worked.

He's not a child -at least chronologically.

 

[Spuddd]

Wonder if this thread comes back to life if/when Grundy goes and we are footing some of the bill.

Geez that previous administration were a beauty when it came to contract time.

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. At least they were willing to pull levers to make the club better.

At the time, Grundy, Treloar and Stevo all earned their contracts.

And just as similarly, at the time, as their contracts tipped into “unfavourable” territory, the club did what was needed to move away from them, even if they couldn’t get away from 100% of the cost. Put it this way, I don’t think the club would be fighting for a top 4 spot, should have we kept Treloar and Stevo…

The opposite would be similar to what Carlton have done. Thrown big money at McGovern, Martin, Saad, Williams & now Cerra - only Saad seems to be repaying the faith & they’re fighting for, at best a spot between 7 & 8.

My favourite quip in life is “fortune favours the bold” - and with results thus far in 2022, this couldn’t ring more true.

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

At the time, Grundy, Treloar and Stevo all earned their contracts.

No they didn’t, the contract for a ruckman even in AA form was far too high.

Stevo also, crazy money.

Treloars was fine, it’s just that it was so heavily backended that it all blew up.

 

[Spuddd]

No they didn’t, the contract for a ruckman even in AA form was far too high.

Stevo also, crazy money.

Treloars was fine, it’s just that it was so heavily backended that it all blew up.

I'm a firm believer that the market dictates prices.

Grundy - an AA Ruckman that had offers from multiple clubs, including those ion his home state. If we werent going to give him that contract, someone else would have. No-One was to know about his injury this year and his form slump post signing. Up until he signed, he had absolutley earned that figure, post that... highly debatable.

Stevo - pre signing, he was the only rising star winner the club had ever had, an integral part of a Grand Final apperance in his first season and was kicking goals like no tomorrow. At the time of signing, his trajectory would suggest he would be more Shai Bolton than Richard Tambling, however again, now knowing what we know - he did not live up to the expectation.

Again, the market dictates price - you dont enter a negotiation with the maximum youre willing to pay & a player isnt going to threaten to walk if their demands are not met, if they dont have an alternative.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'm a firm believer that the market dictates prices.

Grundy - an AA Ruckman that had offers from multiple clubs, including those ion his home state. If we werent going to give him that contract, someone else would have. No-One was to know about his injury this year and his form slump post signing. Up until he signed, he had absolutley earned that figure, post that... highly debatable.

Stevo - pre signing, he was the only rising star winner the club had ever had, an integral part of a Grand Final apperance in his first season and was kicking goals like no tomorrow. At the time of signing, his trajectory would suggest he would be more Shai Bolton than Richard Tambling, however again, now knowing what we know - he did not live up to the expectation.

Again, the market dictates price - you dont enter a negotiation with the maximum youre willing to pay & a player isnt going to threaten to walk if their demands are not met, if they dont have an alternative.

Whilst it tends to agree with you there are plenty of examples of Collingwood far exceeding their “ market price”.
Beams?
Sam Murray

 

[loki04]

View attachment images.mp4

 

[Bianconeri]

I'm a firm believer that the market dictates prices.

Grundy - an AA Ruckman that had offers from multiple clubs, including those ion his home state. If we werent going to give him that contract, someone else would have. No-One was to know about his injury this year and his form slump post signing. Up until he signed, he had absolutley earned that figure, post that... highly debatable.

Stevo - pre signing, he was the only rising star winner the club had ever had, an integral part of a Grand Final apperance in his first season and was kicking goals like no tomorrow. At the time of signing, his trajectory would suggest he would be more Shai Bolton than Richard Tambling, however again, now knowing what we know - he did not live up to the expectation.

Again, the market dictates price - you dont enter a negotiation with the maximum youre willing to pay & a player isnt going to threaten to walk if their demands are not met, if they dont have an alternative.

If the market dictates too high a price you should let the market take.

 

[gouki88]

If the market dictates too high a price you should let the market take.

Easy in hindsight. Letting a back-to-back B&F winner walk from a team in flag contention would have been unfathomable

 

[Bianconeri]

Easy in hindsight. Letting a back-to-back B&F winner walk from a team in flag contention would have been unfathomable

That was the problem with the previous management. When a player leaving is unfathomable to them it gives the player all the leverage. You need to be prepared to let players go and move on without them. We would have been adequately compensated for Grundy and had the extra cap space.

 

[gouki88]

That was the problem with the previous management. When a player leaving is unfathomable to them it gives the player all the leverage. You need to be prepared to let players go and move on without them. We would have been adequately compensated for Grundy and had the extra cap space.

Sure, but coming off a GF and a PF, with some recent additions such as Roughy and Beams, we were clearly in the mindset of thinking we had the chance at a flag. Losing our best player would have been counter to that

 

[sr36]

I'm a firm believer that the market dictates prices.

Grundy - an AA Ruckman that had offers from multiple clubs, including those ion his home state. If we werent going to give him that contract, someone else would have. No-One was to know about his injury this year and his form slump post signing. Up until he signed, he had absolutley earned that figure, post that... highly debatable.

Stevo - pre signing, he was the only rising star winner the club had ever had, an integral part of a Grand Final apperance in his first season and was kicking goals like no tomorrow. At the time of signing, his trajectory would suggest he would be more Shai Bolton than Richard Tambling, however again, now knowing what we know - he did not live up to the expectation.

Again, the market dictates price - you dont enter a negotiation with the maximum youre willing to pay & a player isnt going to threaten to walk if their demands are not met, if they dont have an alternative.

I think part of the issue is that we went public with our goal being keep the list together at all costs. Player managers must have loved it. It was like we were paying the poaching tax simply to retain happy players.

 

[Markfs]

I'm a firm believer that the market dictates prices.

Grundy - an AA Ruckman that had offers from multiple clubs, including those ion his home state. If we werent going to give him that contract, someone else would have. No-One was to know about his injury this year and his form slump post signing. Up until he signed, he had absolutley earned that figure, post that... highly debatable.

Stevo - pre signing, he was the only rising star winner the club had ever had, an integral part of a Grand Final apperance in his first season and was kicking goals like no tomorrow. At the time of signing, his trajectory would suggest he would be more Shai Bolton than Richard Tambling, however again, now knowing what we know - he did not live up to the expectation.

Again, the market dictates price - you dont enter a negotiation with the maximum youre willing to pay & a player isnt going to threaten to walk if their demands are not met, if they dont have an alternative.

"how much did the other team offer?.....ok yes we'll match that and give you a 10% bunnings bonus". it makes me why they have list managers if you only need a guy who says "yes".

seriously, you can always find a reason to sign a player. But the trick is to make astute decisions and someone should have realised that $7m over 7 years was almost buddy franklin money...

 

[leon123]

I'm a firm believer that the market dictates prices.

Grundy - an AA Ruckman that had offers from multiple clubs, including those ion his home state. If we werent going to give him that contract, someone else would have. No-One was to know about his injury this year and his form slump post signing. Up until he signed, he had absolutley earned that figure, post that... highly debatable.

Stevo - pre signing, he was the only rising star winner the club had ever had, an integral part of a Grand Final apperance in his first season and was kicking goals like no tomorrow. At the time of signing, his trajectory would suggest he would be more Shai Bolton than Richard Tambling, however again, now knowing what we know - he did not live up to the expectation.

Again, the market dictates price - you dont enter a negotiation with the maximum youre willing to pay & a player isnt going to threaten to walk if their demands are not met, if they dont have an alternative.

Spud thank you.... you are 100 perecent correct. The market dictates price, therefore the market will value a commodity. There is a thing called market imperfections, but that is a characteristic of any market. You would make a good economist.... that is meant to be a compliment

 

[Bianconeri]

Sure, but coming off a GF and a PF, with some recent additions such as Roughy and Beams, we were clearly in the mindset of thinking we had the chance at a flag. Losing our best player would have been counter to that

Hawks won 2 flags after they lost their best player. Premiership squads aren’t defined by one player.

 

[Gone Critical]

If the market dictates too high a price you should let the market take.

Also easier to talk about letting Grundy leave a few years down the track when the Cameron/Cox combo is working
At the time you are you are talking about we were contendimg and it would havw left us very exposed ruck wise

 

[Bianconeri]

Also easier to talk about letting Grundy leave a few years down the track when the Cameron/Cox combo is working
At the time you are you are talking about we were contendimg and it would havw left us very exposed ruck wise

At the time we had Cox and Cameron on our list, it would have left us as exposed as it did now. Everything is easier to say with hindsight but it’s not going to stop me from saying it. The people running the club are expected to have a bit foresight that’s why they have their positions and I’m happy to judge them on that standard.

 

[gouki88]

At the time we had Cox and Cameron on our list, it would have left us as exposed as it did now. Everything is easier to say with hindsight but it’s not going to stop me from saying it. The people running the club are expected to have a bit foresight that’s why they have their positions and I’m happy to judge them on that standard.

Cameron is miles better at football now than he was 2.5 years ago. I think it's quite naive to suggest he could have handled first ruck duties back then.

 

[Bianconeri]

Cameron is miles better at football now than he was 2.5 years ago. I think it's quite naive to suggest he could have handled first ruck duties back then.

Cameron is only a miles better footballer now because he was given the opportunity to show it.

 

[gouki88]

Cameron is only a miles better footballer now because he was given the opportunity to show it.

That is just nonsense. He was very, very mediocre in 2020 in the same role as compared to 2021, even considering the differences in quarter length.

 

[Bianconeri]

That is just nonsense. He was very, very mediocre in 2020 in the same role as compared to 2021, even considering the differences in quarter length.

Your right maybe his improvement was just something the club should have forsore. Regardless we still had Cox on the list and we still could have went out and found a cheaper ruckman. The idea that we had to re-sign Grundy or else the team would fall apart was nonsense.