Youf/Academy Thread

[jd2010]

Ake wouldn't start at City. Liverpool yeah defintiely. Would count Everton in that rung below with Soton

 

[SM]

Ake wouldn't start at City. Liverpool yeah defintiely. Would count Everton in that rung below with Soton

Who wouldn't he start ahead of at City? Otamendi is gash.

 

[jd2010]

Who wouldn't he start ahead of at City? Otamendi is gash.

Personally I wouldn't start him ahead of Otamendi. Rash yes but I dont think Otamendi is a bad player.

Pep probably would use an Ake type CB because of his talent with the ball at feet regardless of if he is a better defender.

 

[RossFC]

I wouldn't play Ake ahead of Lovren. Maybe if he was a bit more experienced.

 

[SM]

I wouldn't play Ake ahead of Lovren. Maybe if he was a bit more experienced.

Two seasons in the PL isn't enough?

 

[RossFC]

Two seasons in the PL isn't enough?

I just feel Lovren is stronger than him. Ake is still only 22, Maybe another year or 2 he'll grow a bit more.

 

[Magma]

i like ake and hate otamendi but he isn't a better player than otamendi.

anyways, the success of an academy depends on how you measure it. is the point of an academy purely to get players into the clubs 1st team? and nothing else matters? or is it to bring through talented footballers? not everyone can play for the academy they come through. some might be strikers at the same time they have world class senior strikers. they play at a club with vast resources. some youth team managers still focus on playing success over development. some get injuries. some get terrible loan spells. youth football is an absolute minefield.

since the takeover, we've still had quite a few success stories, albeit many not at the club. vlad weiss has had a successful career overseas, and has nearly 60 slovakian caps. robert mak plays for zenit and has nearly 40 slovakian caps. boyata, while not a great player, has been capped by germany and plays for celtic. ben mee, guidetti, rekik, marcos lopes, adam clayton, trippier, ntcham, elabdellaoui, fofana have all gone on to play top flight football. others in the championship.

sure, the club hasn't been very good at bringing through youth players. but a lot of them have not ended up being good enough to play. some have been given a taste and then not given another chance, others still have a chance of making it. from that fa youth cup team, the vast majority of them are 18-19 now.

 

[SM]

i like ake and hate otamendi but he isn't a better player than otamendi.

anyways, the success of an academy depends on how you measure it. is the point of an academy purely to get players into the clubs 1st team? and nothing else matters? or is it to bring through talented footballers? not everyone can play for the academy they come through. some might be strikers at the same time they have world class senior strikers. they play at a club with vast resources. some youth team managers still focus on playing success over development. some get injuries. some get terrible loan spells. youth football is an absolute minefield.

since the takeover, we've still had quite a few success stories, albeit many not at the club. vlad weiss has had a successful career overseas, and has nearly 60 slovakian caps. robert mak plays for zenit and has nearly 40 slovakian caps. boyata, while not a great player, has been capped by germany and plays for celtic. ben mee, guidetti, rekik, marcos lopes, adam clayton, trippier, ntcham, elabdellaoui, fofana have all gone on to play top flight football. others in the championship.

sure, the club hasn't been very good at bringing through youth players. but a lot of them have not ended up being good enough to play. some have been given a taste and then not given another chance, others still have a chance of making it. from that fa youth cup team, the vast majority of them are 18-19 now.

Keep forgetting that, will be fun to see when we play you in a few weeks. Always like those sorts of connections.

 

[jd2010]

There's obvious flaws in there though when guys like Mee and Trippier weren't given a heap of chances but have proven to be more than handy elsewhere. For instance Trippier is surely no worse than Sagna/Zab are currently

 

[Magma]

There's obvious flaws in there though when guys like Mee and Trippier weren't given a heap of chances but have proven to be more than handy elsewhere. For instance Trippier is surely no worse than Sagna/Zab are currently

well no not now but they also left for burnley in 2012. they were good footballers at an absolutely terrible time to be a youth footballer at manchester city.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Results is exactly what they've achieved to date. Youth football results. In terms of senior footballers who is actually out there playing top flight football at top clubs other than Christriansen? Ake was a mid-table regular / top-6 squad player I'd say that's a pass as much as Harry Winks or Onomah are currently for us. Who have City got out on loan that looks like to be a top 6 player? Oh forgot Ihaenacho. Is Denyear still on their books? From what I've seen of him at Sunderland he'll be a Livermore type.

2015 FA Youth Cup final sides below

Chelsea (4-3-3): 1 Bradley Collins; 2 Ola Aina, 3 Fikayo Tomori, 4 Jake Clarke-Salter, 6 Jay Dasilva; 10 Jeremie Boga, 6 Charlie Colkett (c), 8 Charly Musonda; 7 Tammy Abraham, 9 Dominic Solanke, 11 Isaiah Brown

Manchester City (4-5-1): 1 Christian Kjetil Haug; 2 Pablo Maffeo, 4 Tosin Adarabioyo (c ), , 3 Cameron Humphries-Grant, 5 Jose Tasande; 7 Aron Nemane, 6 Kean Bryan, 8 Marcus Wood, 10 Bersant Celina, 11 Brandon Barker; 9 Kelechi Iheanacho

Just the 1 out of the 22 starters has gone on at their club. Tammy will I think go on with it but he could also do a Bamford if handled poorly the next couple of years.

Kelechi is not a City youth player

 

[moomba]

In your best assessment how many of those still at the club will get a chance next year to be in your 25 man squad?

Tosin, Maffeo and (if he stays) Kelechi are the best bet to be in the senior squad next season. None of them will need to be on the 25 man list as they're all U21.

I think Celina could be but he's better off out on loan imo.

 

[moomba]

Kelechi is not a City youth player

He's as much a City youth player as Rose is a Spurs youth player or the likes of O'Shea was a Man United youth player.

 

[chef]

We really need to classify what a youf player is as posters manipulate it to suit there arguments.

 

[moomba]

Pretty poor if true. Particularly as Liverpool are one of the clubs that have complained about us paying school fees for all our academy kids.

 

[Magma]

We really need to classify what a youf player is as posters manipulate it to suit there arguments.

to me, if you're at the club before you turn 18, you can claim them

 

[Bojan KantKick]

He's as much a City youth player as Rose is a Spurs youth player or the likes of O'Shea was a Man United youth player.

so not a youth player then

 

[Bojan KantKick]

We really need to classify what a youf player is as posters manipulate it to suit there arguments.

if you've already played senior football, you aren't a youf player.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Pretty poor if true. Particularly as Liverpool are one of the clubs that have complained about us paying school fees for all our academy kids.

no they haven't. You're allowed to do that. They complained that you tapped up their keeper and that you pay for the academy players siblings to go through st bedes which is against the rules.

 

[moomba]

no they haven't. You're allowed to do that. They complained that you tapped up their keeper and that you pay for the academy players siblings to go through st bedes which is against the rules.

City’s relationship with the £11,000-a-year independent school St Bede’s College in Manchester is being examined following complaints that the club promise to fund the private education of anyone enrolling at their Academy up to the age of 18 even if they leave the football programme earlier. It has also been claimed that the club pay for the education of siblings.

We don't pay for the education of siblings.

 

[moomba]

so not a youth player then

Wonder why you used Rose as an example of an academy player given a chance by his club then.

 

[Magma]

kelechi hadn't played senior football before coming to the club. neither had danny rose, neither had john o'shea. they're all youth products of their respective clubs.

he was signed from a nigerian academy at 17 and had only played that and u/17 nigerian national football.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

We don't pay for the education of siblings.

i said that was the accusation

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Wonder why you used Rose as an example of an academy player given a chance by his club then.

i didn't know that he had already played senior football!

 

[moomba]

One thing that should give things a push along in terms of the quality of players coming out of academies is EPPP.

Before EPPP a player going through an academy system got a max of 3760 hours coaching time between 9 and 21.

Compare that to 5940 (Holland), 5740 (France), 4880 (Spain).

Now a category 1 academy can provide up to 8500 hours coaching time from U5 level upwards. There's more qualified coaches, better facilities etc. That's got to lead to an increase in the quality of the players coming out of academy systems. But it's only 3/4 years old, and you're still looking at another 3 or 4 years before we start seeing players coming through that have gone through academies.

There's a lot of impatience with youth development nowadays, sometimes you've just got to sit back and wait for the results.