Young Talent

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jd2010 said:
Yeah becomes a tough one for the academy/club.

The people around the academy would say it's bad for Brewster's career and development. But the club would say its 20m take it.

Brewster's own people should be advising him against the move
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Yeah but Brewsters people probably believe in the kid and think he's not gonna get opportunities at Liverpool but he will play regularly for Sheffield United.

Club is always taking the money, it's a business after all.
 
jod23 said:
Yeah but Brewsters people probably believe in the kid and think he's not gonna get opportunities at Liverpool but he will play regularly for Sheffield United.

Club is always taking the money, it's a business after all.
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Academies should be doing more to make sure these players have the right people advising them.

Too many go down this path and it is inevitable how it ends up. We've had a few in recent times like Marcus Edwards and Reo Griffiths go down similar paths believing their own hype and angling for moves and money too early.
 
Meslier is still only 21 and broke the clean sheets record for an under 21 in the PL this season. He’s about 10 years from his peak. He’s a goal keeper worthy of this thread.

Pascal Struijk another 21 year old in the league that has a big future, will be partnering De Ligt for Holland in the near future, left sided also. Knocked back a starting spot for Belgium from Martinez at the Euro’s.

Leeds u/23’s absolutely dominated the PL2 Div 2 so it will be interesting to see how they go in Div 1. Orta and Bielsa have invested heavily in the academy in the last 2 years.
The likes of Gelhardt, Greenwood, Drameh and Cresswell are all in the England u/20 setup and all very highly rated, particularly Gelhardt.

Leeds have bought Sean McGurk and Amari Miller in the last few days also, again, both of them with big wraps. We will have a pretty competitive u23 side again.
 
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Sphynx said:
Meslier is still only 21 and broke the clean sheets record for an under 21 in the PL this season. He’s about 10 years from his peak. He’s a goal keeper worthy of this thread.

Pascal Struijk another 21 year old in the league that has a big future, will be partnering De Ligt for Holland in the near future, left sided also. Knocked back a starting spot for Belgium from Martinez at the Euro’s.

Leeds u/23’s absolutely dominated the PL2 Div 2 so it will be interesting to see how they go in Div 1. The likes of Gelhardt, Greenwood, Drameh and Cresswell are all in the England u/20 setup and all very highly rated, particularly Gelhardt.
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Sam Greenwood needs a loan. U23's doesn't really offer players a technical challenge, just physical. He should be ready for a championship loan. I'd be concerned if he wasn't.
 
jd2010 said:
Academies should be doing more to make sure these players have the right people advising them.
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Easier said than done. So many campaigner agents are already involved at that stage and looking to line their own pockets.
 
Bojan KantKick said:
Sam Greenwood needs a loan. U23's doesn't really offer players a technical challenge, just physical. He should be ready for a championship loan. I'd be concerned if he wasn't.
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Bielsa likes to keep the best kids under his training regime, only really loans the ones he wants to cut loose.

People said the same about Foden regarding needing a loan.

Greenwood will make his PL debut this season imo.

Gelhardt is the one though. Was compared to a young Rooney at Wigan, reminds me more of Aguero tbh. Another that will probably make his PL debut this year and has a big future at the top level.
 
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Bojan KantKick said:
Easier said than done. So many campaigner agents are already involved at that stage and looking to line their own pockets.
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Yep, particularly for the more talented kids and the scum agents filling their heads with dreams and that they should be at a bigger club or at a club that will give them games etc etc... just so they can get that sweet % of the transfer fees. Leeches.
 
Sphynx said:
Bielsa likes to keep the best kids under his training regime, only really loans the ones he wants to cut loose.

People said the same about Foden regarding needing a loan.

Greenwood will make his PL debut this season imo.

Gelhardt is the one though. Was compared to a young Rooney at Wigan, reminds me more of Aguero tbh. Another that will probably make his PL debut this year.
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Sam Greenwood and Phil Foden are on different levels. Players don't get much out of the u23s and Foden was a unique case. Pep could give him minutes when City were up by a couple of goals in the second half of games. Most teams don't have that luxury. I guess my point is that he is 19 and a half so really needs to be playing mens football now.

Haven't seen Gelhardt so can't comment. Big wraps on him obviously!
 
jd2010 said:
Needs to be something club academies help with in the 13-15 year old bracket. Because by 16 they're already all lined up with agencies.
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Clubs can only do so much. United and City send academy players to good schools (I'm sure others do, I just don't know about it) and have mentoring programs but their is only so much that clubs can do. Agents promise the kids and their parents the world.
 
Bojan KantKick said:
Sam Greenwood and Phil Foden are on different levels. Players don't get much out of the u23s and Foden was a unique case. Pep could give him minutes when City were up by a couple of goals in the second half of games. Most teams don't have that luxury. I guess my point is that he is 19 and a half so really needs to be playing mens football now.

Haven't seen Gelhardt so can't comment. Big wraps on him obviously!
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Leeds also aren’t City, meaning it’s easier to breakthrough for opportunity.

He was the top scorer in PL2 Div 2 with about half of them free kicks.

He was on the bench in the PL last season and will no doubt feature in cup games. Really don’t see how it’s any different to any other developing 19 year old.

He will play senior football, it will just be at PL level rather than Championship or L1 level.
 
Sphynx said:
Leeds also aren’t City, meaning it’s easier to breakthrough for opportunity.

He was the top scorer in PL2 Div 2 with about half of them free kicks.

He was on the bench in the PL last season and will no doubt feature in cup games. Really don’t see it’s any different to any other developing 19 year old.

He will play senior football, it will be at PL level rather than Championship or L1 level.
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Foden got opportunities when city were guaranteed to win games. Most clubs including Leeds don't have that luxury.

Top scoring in division 2 of PL2 is does not impress me. He's not playing against the better teams and 12 goals in 18 games is only ok. Most of the better academies play u18s players in div 1 and loan out the over 18s.
 

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Bojan KantKick said:
Foden got opportunities when city were guaranteed to win games. Most clubs including Leeds don't have that luxury.

Top scoring in division 2 of PL2 is does not impress me. He's not playing against the better teams and 12 goals in 18 games is only ok. Most of the better academies play u18s players in div 1 and loan out the over 18s.
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I’m glad it doesn’t impress you.

Greenwood was 18 for half of the season.

He obviously impressed enough people to be picked in the England u/19 side.

With all due respect, given what Bielsa has done to the likes of Phillips, Bamford, Dallas, Ayling and even Ben White etc , I think his development is in pretty good hands.

Gelhardt said in a recent interview he dropped over 8kg’s in his first season at Leeds, he’s not going through that sort of physical transformation at Peterborough on loan...

Most of the “better academies” don’t train anywhere near as hard or as long as the current Leeds side. The man on man marking is completely unique in the English game to Leeds, so it’s counter productive not preparing the young players under this system if your intention is to develop them for the first team.

Bielsa played one of the youngest starting goal keepers in the European top leagues last year benching one of our top 3 earners in the process. He benched the captain for a 21 year old CB at one point. If they are good enough, they will play.
 
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Sphynx said:
I’m glad it doesn’t impress you.

Greenwood was 18 for half of the season.

He obviously impressed enough people to be picked in the England u/19 side.

With all due respect, given what Bielsa has done to the likes of Phillips, Bamford, Dallas, Ayling and even Ben White etc , I think his development is in pretty good hands.

Gelhardt said in a recent interview he dropped over 8kg’s in his first season at Leeds, he’s not going through that sort of physical transformation at Peterborough on loan...

Most of the “better academies” don’t train anywhere near as hard or as long as the current Leeds side. The man on man marking is completely unique in the English game to Leeds, so it’s counter productive not preparing the young players under this system if your intention is to develop them for the first team.

Bielsa played one of the youngest starting goal keepers in the European top leagues last year benching one of our top 3 earners in the process. He benched the captain for a 21 year old CB at one point. If they are good enough, they will play.
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Well if you think the u23 second division is decent that's your prerogative. The first division is s**t because most of the decent players are out on loan.

England u19s? Will Fish is in that team and he's s**t. Joe Hugill is 2 years younger and has played at a higher level. Selectors don't know much at that level. Marcus Rashford and Mason Greenwood only got England u21 call ups after playing for the senior team ffs.

The bolded you just made up but sure.
 
Bojan KantKick said:
Well if you think the u23 second division is decent that's your prerogative. The first division is sh*t because most of the decent players are out on loan.

England u19s? Will Fish is in that team and he's sh*t. Joe Hugill is 2 years younger and has played at a higher level. Selectors don't know much at that level. Marcus Rashford and Mason Greenwood only got England u21 call ups after playing for the senior team ffs.

The bolded you just made up but sure.
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Nah. It’s just a different training regime and level of intensity.

Like I said, he does t like to loan them out, because they wouldn’t prepare the same way.

I really don’t see it any different to how Man Utd have prepared Brandon Williams who debuted at 19.

1625838226517.jpeg

 
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Sphynx said:
Nah. It’s just a different training regime and level of intensity.

Like I said, he does t like to loan them out, because they wouldn’t prepare the same way.

I really don’t see it any different to how Man Utd have prepared Brandon Williams who debuted at 19.

View attachment 1174162

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Brandon Williams was played in an emergency and isnt very good. Ironically, he is about to head to Southampton on loan.

Maybe Leeds are unique. As a rule of thumb though, if guys are still playing u23 football at 20 years old, they aren't going to make it at the very top level. There are always a few exceptions though.
 
Bojan KantKick said:
Brandon Williams was played in an emergency and isnt very good. Ironically, he is about to head to Southampton on loan.

Maybe Leeds are unique. As a rule of thumb though, if guys are still playing u23 football at 20 years old, they aren't going to make it at the very top level. There are always a few exceptions though.
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Ben White moved to a league 2 club at 20 for his first loan spell and is a £50m+ player 4 years later.

There’s no blueprint.
 
Definitely with Bojan KantKick here. If you are still being loaned out at 20/21 you're not making it at the top level or top clubs. If you're good enough, you're old enough sort of thing. You have to be outstanding to break into the first team of a top club, so if you're still being loaned out in your 20's you're not good enough. Harry Wilson, Grujic, Woodburn are all examples of this. Good players, but not good enough for Liverpool.

Curtis Jones, TAA, no loans, straight in. They are good enough. It's pretty clear.
 
jod23 said:
Definitely with Bojan KantKick here. If you are still being loaned out at 20/21 you're not making it at the top level or top clubs. If you're good enough, you're old enough sort of thing. You have to be outstanding to break into the first team of a top club, so if you're still being loaned out in your 20's you're not good enough. Harry Wilson, Grujic, Woodburn are all examples of this. Good players, but not good enough for Liverpool.

Curtis Jones, TAA, no loans, straight in. They are good enough. It's pretty clear.
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My point had nothing to do with loans, I was actually arguing the complete opposite.

I was refuting his point that if you weren’t playing senior football and we’re still just in the u/23 setup at 19 you wouldn’t make it.

Curtis Jones didn’t make his premier league debut until right near his 19th birthday, he had played u/23 football the entire time.

If anything you are strengthening my point.

TAA was also just an u/23 and cup player until he got his debut when he was 18...
 
Sphynx said:
My point had nothing to do with loans, I was actually arguing the complete opposite.

I was refuting his point that if you weren’t playing senior football and we’re still just in the u/23 setup at 19 you wouldn’t make it.

Curtis Jones didn’t make his premier league debut until right near his 19th birthday, he had played u/23 football the entire time.

If anything you are strengthening my point.

TAA was also just an u/23 and cup player until he got his debut when he was 18...
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But that's normal. Both were 18 when they made their debut's for Liverpool. How old do you expect them to be? 16? 15?

They played U18's/U23's and at 18 were identified to be good enough, and they came straight in.
 
Bojan KantKick said:
Brandon Williams was played in an emergency and isnt very good. Ironically, he is about to head to Southampton on loan.

Maybe Leeds are unique. As a rule of thumb though, if guys are still playing u23 football at 20 years old, they aren't going to make it at the very top level. There are always a few exceptions though.
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Williams is the 2nd coming of cafu/Carlos according to procrastinator 35 RIP
 
jod23 said:
But that's normal. Both were 18 when they made their debut's for Liverpool. How old do you expect them to be? 16? 15?

They played U18's/U23's and at 18 were identified to be good enough, and they came straight in.
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Ok, so exactly my point? You can be developed in the u/23’s and don’t need loans...
 
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