Your Official 2017 Western Conference Playoffs Thread, R2 - home of the real MVP...

[fidstar]

Warriors are opening at $1.06 to win the series.

I'll give the Spurs an "over-achievement" if they knock them off

 

[YippeeYiYeo]

Makes me sick that one of Harden or Westbrook will win an MVP

the 2 turnover kings of the NBA as front runners is weird eh. Should go to Lebron or Leonard.

 

[fidstar]

the 2 turnover kings of the NBA as front runners is weird eh. Should go to Lebron or Leonard.

Why LeBron? His team won 51 games this year. He also averaged 4.1 TO/game (3rd in the league). He actually had a higher TO percentage than Westbrook. Hardly an MVP year.

There is no question he's the best player in the league though. And daylight is second.

 

[fidstar]

If you feel like voting on the MVP, you can do it over here.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bf-nba-awards.1164633/

Self promotion over...

 

[Drummer_19]

 

[Son of Skeletor]

Well now the West is down to two, am happy to sticky one of our great posters new thread when the time comes.

On it.

All I'm saying, is compared to regular season win/loss, they've underachieved. Which is just how it is.

It's not easy to win a championship. No doubt.

The other teams you mentioned

OKC - Yes, they underachieved. But that team didn't have a coach that could actually get them to play together
The Clippers - Have they actually finished higher than a 3rd seed?
Mavs - Probably overall. But they only had one season they won more than 60 games.
Griz - wat?
Warriors - obviously underachieved last year. But they've been in the hunt for 2 season and won it once. Not bad in the scheme of things
Suns - Yep, underachieved. Had issues with being in the time of two super teams in Lakers/SA
Lakers (howard times) - lol

SA are averaging 61 wins a game over those 8 or so season. Those teams above probably combine for 8.

All I'm saying if it was an LA or LeBron or Knicks, the media would have made a big deal about it.

They were a Ray Allen prayer from winning two championships though. If you look at the other teams that have won one in the same period - Celtics 1, Lakers 2, Heat 2, Cavs 1, Dubs 1, Mavs 1 - that seems about right.

Utah had 12 50+ win seasons in 13 years, never won a championship. Phoenix averaged near 60 between 1988-95 and 2004-08, never won one. George Karl's Seattle ditto between 1991-98.

Agreed that the media would make more of it if it were LeBron's team, but that's not to say we should.

I actually think Memphis would be crushed that they haven't made more of this era. They've had their core together since 2009, but they also had Rudy Gay, OJ Mayo (technically Kevin Love), Kyle Lowry/Demarre Carroll and the #2 pick in the 2009 draft when Harden, Curry et al. were available.

The Griz have been good, but they could conceivably have been much better.

 

[fidstar]

On it.



They were a Ray Allen prayer from winning two championships though. If you look at the other teams that have won one in the same period - Celtics 1, Lakers 2, Heat 2, Cavs 1, Dubs 1, Mavs 1 - that seems about right.

Utah had 12 50+ win seasons in 13 years, never won a championship. Phoenix averaged near 60 between 1988-95 and 2004-08, never won one. George Karl's Seattle ditto between 1991-98.

Agreed that the media would make more of it if it were LeBron's team, but that's not to say we should.

I actually think Memphis would be crushed that they haven't made more of this era. They've had their core together since 2009, but they also had Rudy Gay, OJ Mayo (technically Kevin Love), Kyle Lowry/Demarre Carroll and the #2 pick in the 2009 draft when Harden, Curry et al. were available.

The Griz have been good, but they could conceivably have been much better.

It's not just about Championships though. They've had years where they have been upset in earlier rounds than expected.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

It's not just about Championships though. They've had years where they have been upset in earlier rounds than expected.

None of the teams they lost to were duds though.

Memphis, Clips, OKC - these were perennial playoff teams, at least in waiting in Memphis' case.

Bigger picture they've done well to win one, and almost two championships with their former core aging. Personally wouldn't have expected more.

 

[fidstar]

None of the teams they lost to were duds though.

Memphis, Clips, OKC - these were perennial playoff teams, at least in waiting in Memphis' case.

Bigger picture they've done well to win one, and almost two championships with their former core aging. Personally wouldn't have expected more.

You're overrating LAC. I know they have had their injury issues, but other than the Spurs the only other series they've won in the last 5 seasons, was against a one legged Curry (when LAC had home court).

And it regards to Memphis. They won 46 games that year. SA won 61. It was Memphis first playoffs in 6 seasons and they had never even won a playoff game in their history. That's a huge upset to lose that series. I'm not sure how you can think otherwise.

All I'm saying is that the Spurs have underachieved in the playoffs in recent years. I'm not trying to take away their first born child. It's first world problems for an incredible team. I'm surprised it's being disputed.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

You're overrating LAC. I know they have had their injury issues, but other than the Spurs the only other series they've won in the last 5 seasons, was against a one legged Curry (when LAC had home court).

They're a perennial 50 win team.

I know they're the Clippers, but they're not an automatic out.

And it regards to Memphis. They won 46 games that year. SA won 61. It was Memphis first playoffs in 6 seasons and they had never even won a playoff game in their history. That's a huge upset to lose that series. I'm not sure how you can think otherwise.

I didn't say it wasn't an upset - I said that Memphis wasn't, and isn't a dud. It was a fore-runner of things to come from them.

All I'm saying is that the Spurs have underachieved in the playoffs in recent years. I'm not trying to take away their first born child. It's first world problems for an incredible team. I'm surprised it's being disputed.

You're looking at it one way, re win/loss record.

However, if you look at the teams that have won championships since 2007 - Celtics, Lakers, Heat, Cavs, Dubs, Mavs - has San Antonio underachieved overall? Not really, IMO.

Given the strength of the Western conference in that stretch, they've achieved about what I'd expect. The odd upset sure, but it happens.

It's not the same as LeBron reaching the Finals every year since 2011, because LeBron's teams have been a clear head above the rest. The Spurs never have been that far ahead in the West.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

let it go man.

You're making a very simplistic point that completely ignores the context of the spurs themselves over that time (an aging team that has relied on getting the most out of its depth without the level of top level talent, still in their peak, that their opponents have had) or the fact that the west has been very tough over that time.
If the Spurs have underachieved - then so has every single other team from the western conference over that time.

Again - come talk to me if the Warriors are still continuing their playoff run in 2030.

 

[fidstar]

let it go man.

You're making a very simplistic point that completely ignores the context of the spurs themselves over that time (an aging team that has relied on getting the most out of its depth without the level of top level talent, still in their peak, that their opponents have had) or the fact that the west has been very tough over that time.
If the Spurs have underachieved - then so has every single other team from the western conference over that time.

Again - come talk to me if the Warriors are still continuing their playoff run in 2030.

If the Warriors don't win it this year, and then average 60ish wins per season for the next 5 seasons while not winning another one, I will happily admit that they have underachieved.

 

[fidstar]

They're a perennial 50 win team.

I know they're the Clippers, but they're not an automatic out.



I didn't say it wasn't an upset - I said that Memphis wasn't, and isn't a dud. It was a fore-runner of things to come from them.



You're looking at it one way, re win/loss record.

However, if you look at the teams that have won championships since 2007 - Celtics, Lakers, Heat, Cavs, Dubs, Mavs - has San Antonio underachieved overall? Not really, IMO.

Given the strength of the Western conference in that stretch, they've achieved about what I'd expect. The odd upset sure, but it happens.

It's not the same as LeBron reaching the Finals every year since 2011, because LeBron's teams have been a clear head above the rest. The Spurs never have been that far ahead in the West.

If LeBron had lost to a 46 win team when his team won 61 games, how would that have gone down?

If the Cavs lose to Boston in the ECF (should that eventuate), which is about equivalent in terms of teams win/losses for the SA v LAC teams. How would that go down for LeBron?

I'm just saying they escape criticism because of the great run they had before 08. I mean, cases in point, what's happening here.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

If the Warriors don't win it this year, and then average 60ish wins per season for the next 5 seasons while not winning another one, I will happily admit that they have underachieved.

This year the Warriors have 4 HoFers in their peaks - all 29 and under.

Over this 8 year period you want to talk about, this is where the Spurs top level talent has been:

Duncan's last 20-10 season was in 06/07. (also the last time he played 80 games)... the year he turned 31.
Manu's last season as a starter, and last 15ppg season - was '10/11. (the last time he played more than 70 games)... 33yo
TP last scored 20ppg in '12/13, and hasnt played 75 games since '10/11... and has often been injured for the playoffs.
Kawhi's breakout offensive season was last year. (same year we got LMA).

That is a 3 year gap without a single player in their peak, 5 without 2 together, and probably 8 without having a player in the top 5 of the competition (between peak Duncan and last years Kawhi). - and still managed a ring, and close to a 2nd, in that time... not a bad little result.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

If LeBron had lost to a 46 win team when his team won 61 games, how would that have gone down?

I already covered this - just because the media or whoever would make a big deal of it re. LeBron, it doesn't mean we should.

The Spurs losing to Memphis was not like Seattle losing to a Denver team that never won a playoff game - in fact barely made the playoffs, period - outside that year. Memphis was not your run of the mill 8th seed.

If the Cavs lose to Boston in the ECF (should that eventuate), which is about equivalent in terms of teams win/losses for the SA v LAC teams. How would that go down for LeBron?

I don't buy that comparison.

In real terms the Cavs are a 10-15 win better team than the Celtics, despite what the records say. The discrepancy was never that big between the Clippers and Spurs in 2015.

I'm just saying they escape criticism because of the great run they had before 08. I mean, cases in point, what's happening here.

They escape LeBron-level hysterical criticism. Which is a good thing.

Personally I don't excuse them because of pre-2007, I excuse them because of the age of their core and the quality of the conference they play in - simple.

 

[YippeeYiYeo]

Why LeBron? His team won 51 games this year. He also averaged 4.1 TO/game (3rd in the league). He actually had a higher TO percentage than Westbrook. Hardly an MVP year.

There is no question he's the best player in the league though. And daylight is second.

well thats why its vomit worthy that Westbrook or Harden will win it. If i had to start a team from scratch those 2 wouldnt even be the best point guard IMO. Kyrie every day of the week.

 

[stewie griffen]

well thats why its vomit worthy that Westbrook or Harden will win it. If i had to start a team from scratch those 2 wouldnt even be the best point guard IMO. Kyrie every day of the week.

Y'all need to build a wall

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

It's not just about Championships though. They've had years where they have been upset in earlier rounds than expected.

If LeBron had lost to a 46 win team when his team won 61 games, how would that have gone down?

If the Cavs lose to Boston in the ECF (should that eventuate), which is about equivalent in terms of teams win/losses for the SA v LAC teams. How would that go down for LeBron?

I'm just saying they escape criticism because of the great run they had before 08. I mean, cases in point, what's happening here.

When the Warriors lose though it's not about Curry. It's about the team.

Any year the 1 seed doesn't make the finals it's underachieving. It's exacerbated in the East due to lack of quality opposition.

Ask any fan about their team. Would you rather finish short in the playoffs or lottery?

 

[PP34]

well thats why its vomit worthy that Westbrook or Harden will win it. If i had to start a team from scratch those 2 wouldnt even be the best point guard IMO. Kyrie every day of the week.

Hahahahahaha

You can't be serious

 

[nahnah]

well thats why its vomit worthy that Westbrook or Harden will win it. If i had to start a team from scratch those 2 wouldnt even be the best point guard IMO. Kyrie every day of the week.

You need to post more, I like you

 

[fidstar]

well thats why its vomit worthy that Westbrook or Harden will win it. If i had to start a team from scratch those 2 wouldnt even be the best point guard IMO. Kyrie every day of the week.

solid troll

 

[fidstar]

When the Warriors lose though it's not about Curry. It's about the team.

Probably this year if they don't win it. But last year Curry got a lot of criticism. Not LeBron level obviously. s**t, he got a lot of criticism in 2015 when they won it all.

I also think the criticism was fair, even if overblown.

Any year the 1 seed doesn't make the finals it's underachieving. It's exacerbated in the East due to lack of quality opposition.

Unless it's the Spurs apparently (made the Finals 1 of the last 3 years they were the top seed).

Ask any fan about their team. Would you rather finish short in the playoffs or lottery?

As I've mentioned before, it's first world problems for an incredible team. The best run team in bball over the last 20ish years. Being a fan of them would be awesome. You can buy your playoff tickets preseason. You just know they are going to win 50 games.

 

[fidstar]

Where's the new thread?!?!



Stupid embed not working... http://www.espn.com /video/clip?id=19369563

 

[Son of Skeletor]

Where's the new thread?!?!

Relax, there's no game til Monday.

It'll be done before then.

 

[fidstar]

Relax, there's no game til Monday.

It'll be done before then.

If the title doesn't have "Super Team Warriors vs Underachieving Spurs", I'm gonna be pissed!