Analysis Youth and Pol Pot crazies

Remove this Banner Ad

No-one wants to hear about the inexperience in our list as any type of explanation for how we've dropped off in the second part of this season. The counter argument to this youth 'excuse' is that the Dogs have done particularly well this season with a very young list.

The fact that the Dogs have shot ahead with kids after losing experienced players like Higgins, Griffen and Cooney last year, suggests we've gone awry, badly.

Yet the fact remains the Dogs are a few years ahead in their youth development. Their early young draft picks are a few years into the system while our early young picks have just hatched. The Dogs started to drop off and land early picks post 2009 while we dropped off post 2012 for our early picks.

There's youth, and there's youth. A young player 3-4 seasons in is not the same as a young player 1-2 seasons in. Especially when we're talking about top-end picks and when two of our top 10's of 2 drafts ago have 2 games between them. You can call it an excuse but there are just some realities you can't leapfrog. Like a tank and a strong body, like experience and tricks.

It's worth remembering that the Dogs ended 15th last year. 15th. There is no stepping over some realities, no matter how many platitudes and exhortations you want to lay down.

The mad Pol Pot thought Cambodia could leapfrog the reality of that countries situation and declare it as some advanced state by simply stating it as a fact and by dent of ridiculous dictates. Any tit can declare whatever they like by fiat. I can declare I'm the Queen of Sheeba but wanting something to be so doesn't make it so.

So when I read stuff in here about pulling the structure down on top of us, and starting again from year zero, I am bemused. We've got to stay the course.
 

THATSGOLD

Brownlow Medallist
10k Posts
Sep 21, 2005
16,658
6,881
the G.. home of the pies!
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
collingwood
Also Injuries! We've been using the injury excuse since 2012. We have an a fairly good bill health in comparison to some teams this season. Not buying that anymore either.
 
Also Injuries! We've been using the injury excuse since 2012. We have an a fairly good bill health in comparison to some teams this season. Not buying that anymore either.

You might have liked my post before reading the whole thing.

I'm suggesting our youth is like the Dogs youth but a couple of steps behind in development. I'm talking pre-seasons and stubborn specifics like body development and experience, not doctrinaire statements about 'where we should be'.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

THATSGOLD

Brownlow Medallist
10k Posts
Sep 21, 2005
16,658
6,881
the G.. home of the pies!
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
collingwood
You might have liked my post before reading the whole thing.

I'm suggesting our youth is like the Dogs youth but a couple of steps behind in development. I'm talking pre-seasons and stubborn specifics like body development and experience, not doctrinaire statements about 'where we should be'.
Well one thing I'd say about the Dogs youth is they brought in some fairly hard bodied young players which we haven't done. Stringer Wallis Bontempelli McCrae probably only DeGoey you can compare to big talent like that.
 
Ah yes, the longing glances towards the kennel and the youth of the Western Bulldogs...it's almost been enough to make me begrudge the long-suffering bastards their overdue dose of sunshine.

I appreciate the tune you're playing, but I'm not sure that there's much of an audience for your sort of music at the moment. Any suggestion that success will take any longer than an instant is met with accusations of idolatry, delusion, and complacency. I guess supporters are in the mood to gnash their teeth for a bit, scratch at one another, shed a bit of blood, and let the spittle fly.
 

Saintly Viewed

.
30k Posts 10k Posts Collingwood - Tyler Brown Player Sponsor 2020 Collingwood Magpies - Brayden Sier 2019 Player Sponsor Collingwood - Jaidyn Stephenson Player Sponsor 2018 Collingwood Board Goal Kicking Tip Comp Collingwood - Matthew Scharenberg Player Sponsor 2017 Shiny Penny
Aug 10, 2015
48,085
39,985
AFL Club
Collingwood
You raise some good points.
People like things black and white (pun intended)
But there are shades of grey.

It's never as simple as change eg coach then list wins flag!
It's about building and building till you get there.

Those poor old fogs, haven't seen a GF since 1961, hardly a yard stick.
2 grand final appearances - EVER!

Go pies
 
Well one thing I'd say about the Dogs youth is they brought in some fairly hard bodied young players which we haven't done. Stringer Wallis Bontempelli McCrae probably only DeGoey you can compare to big talent like that.

We've bought in plenty of hard bodied players.

What we lack is experience into our recent early picks and more specialist players like Moore as a mobile KP, Freeman as a speedy mid, Scharenberg as an elite decision-maker. All those players require experience and physical development which have been denied us for very stubborn reasons, namely age and injury.

We're a couple of years behind the Dogs but should (and must) be able to bridge the age-profile/skill deficit during trade week. Next year if we don't advance then there will be questions asked.
 

Justlokan

All Australian
Aug 24, 2014
881
995
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Cleveland Browns, Everton
Well one thing I'd say about the Dogs youth is they brought in some fairly hard bodied young players which we haven't done. Stringer Wallis Bontempelli McCrae probably only DeGoey you can compare to big talent like that.

Stringer, Bonts, Macrae were all out of our reach in the draft
And Wallis was FS
And Shaz and Freeman were attempts to pick up bigger types. Ok they haven't worked out for us yet but not for lack of trying.
 
Oct 6, 2004
10,332
11,361
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
collingwood
Good post.

The dogs are clearly ahead of us in development with guys like macrae, stringer etc having had that extra year than our guys. Even bontempelli is a 2nd year player whereas our guys in the same draft have been injured.

They are also quite experienced down back. Murphy, boyd and morris are seasoned veterans, and wood has been around a while. Roughead and talia have had a few years as well.

Plus im only convinced they can play etihad. Im yet to be convinced they can stand up at the G playing the style they do. Theyve been smashed by hawthorn and west coast this year.

Credit to them though. It gives me hope how quickly things can turn with good recruiting, good coaching and momentum.

I thought beveridge had a shocker on the weekend though...picking 1 ruckman against the Eagles with no backup.

At one stage lin jong was contesting the ruck for about a 5 minute patch in the last.

Also, they showed no ability to hold the eagles. Its only one gear for the bulldogs. Port Adelaide were similar last year and got found out this year. Even the saints turned a 50 point margin around against them.
 
Oct 6, 2004
10,332
11,361
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
collingwood
Well one thing I'd say about the Dogs youth is they brought in some fairly hard bodied young players which we haven't done. Stringer Wallis Bontempelli McCrae probably only DeGoey you can compare to big talent like that.

So then what are de goey, marsh, scharenberg, freeman, greenwood and crisp???
 

Thirteen

Team Captain
Jun 3, 2010
372
914
Between twelve & fourteen
AFL Club
Collingwood
No-one wants to hear about the inexperience in our list as any type of explanation for how we've dropped off in the second part of this season. The counter argument to this youth 'excuse' is that the Dogs have done particularly well this season with a very young list.

The fact that the Dogs have shot ahead with kids after losing experienced players like Higgins, Griffen and Cooney last year, suggests we've gone awry, badly.

Yet the fact remains the Dogs are a few years ahead in their youth development. Their early young draft picks are a few years into the system while our early young picks have just hatched. The Dogs started to drop off and land early picks post 2009 while we dropped off post 2012 for our early picks.

There's youth, and there's youth. A young player 3-4 seasons in is not the same as a young player 1-2 seasons in. Especially when we're talking about top-end picks and when two of our top 10's of 2 drafts ago have 2 games between them. You can call it an excuse but there are just some realities you can't leapfrog. Like a tank and a strong body, like experience and tricks.

It's worth remembering that the Dogs ended 15th last year. 15th. There is no stepping over some realities, no matter how many platitudes and exhortations you want to lay down.

The mad Pol Pot thought Cambodia could leapfrog the reality of that countries situation and declare it as some advanced state by simply stating it as a fact and by dent of ridiculous dictates. Any tit can declare whatever they like by fiat. I can declare I'm the Queen of Sheeba but wanting something to be so doesn't make it so.

So when I read stuff in here about pulling the structure down on top of us, and starting again from year zero, I am bemused. We've got to stay the course.

You WANT to BE the Queen of Sheba?

In a Caitlyn Jenna kinda way? :)

image.jpg
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Saintly Viewed

.
30k Posts 10k Posts Collingwood - Tyler Brown Player Sponsor 2020 Collingwood Magpies - Brayden Sier 2019 Player Sponsor Collingwood - Jaidyn Stephenson Player Sponsor 2018 Collingwood Board Goal Kicking Tip Comp Collingwood - Matthew Scharenberg Player Sponsor 2017 Shiny Penny
Aug 10, 2015
48,085
39,985
AFL Club
Collingwood
No-one wants to hear about the inexperience in our list as any type of explanation for how we've dropped off in the second part of this season. The counter argument to this youth 'excuse' is that the Dogs have done particularly well this season with a very young list.

The fact that the Dogs have shot ahead with kids after losing experienced players like Higgins, Griffen and Cooney last year, suggests we've gone awry, badly.

Yet the fact remains the Dogs are a few years ahead in their youth development. Their early young draft picks are a few years into the system while our early young picks have just hatched. The Dogs started to drop off and land early picks post 2009 while we dropped off post 2012 for our early picks.

There's youth, and there's youth. A young player 3-4 seasons in is not the same as a young player 1-2 seasons in. Especially when we're talking about top-end picks and when two of our top 10's of 2 drafts ago have 2 games between them. You can call it an excuse but there are just some realities you can't leapfrog. Like a tank and a strong body, like experience and tricks.

It's worth remembering that the Dogs ended 15th last year. 15th. There is no stepping over some realities, no matter how many platitudes and exhortations you want to lay down.

The mad Pol Pot thought Cambodia could leapfrog the reality of that countries situation and declare it as some advanced state by simply stating it as a fact and by dent of ridiculous dictates. Any tit can declare whatever they like by fiat. I can declare I'm the Queen of Sheeba but wanting something to be so doesn't make it so.

So when I read stuff in here about pulling the structure down on top of us, and starting again from year zero, I am bemused. We've got to stay the course.

I agree with most of your post but it is hard to criticise supporters who have had their expectations raised at the start of the year by Pert and Ed.
 
Talking about quality not quantity. Most the players we have brought in can't kick.

You bring in the best available with early picks. Scharenberg and Maynard are high quality kicks, Ramsay is like Toovey but can kick it better. Varcoe is a very good user. Moore is a very sound kick.

We'll top off our list with good outside users once the fundamentals are locked down but that's no guarantee of anything. Freo have Hill and D Pearce with mixed results. Suckling is in and out. Winning the contested ball is still king.
 

Saintly Viewed

.
30k Posts 10k Posts Collingwood - Tyler Brown Player Sponsor 2020 Collingwood Magpies - Brayden Sier 2019 Player Sponsor Collingwood - Jaidyn Stephenson Player Sponsor 2018 Collingwood Board Goal Kicking Tip Comp Collingwood - Matthew Scharenberg Player Sponsor 2017 Shiny Penny
Aug 10, 2015
48,085
39,985
AFL Club
Collingwood
If she has a "go home" factor then I expect the Lions to draft her with pick 1
I thought she might play for Sydney with a cost from home alowance
 
Ed, not so much Pert or Bucks.

I can recall Pert making a premiership in three years call. These are the guys who set the external expectations and when they are not met the s**t is going to hit the fan.
 
Ed, not so much Pert or Bucks.

Ed certainly tried to sell the supporters some candy, but Pert was the one who came out with somewhat more grandiose statements, something along the lines of 'we will a premiership in 3 years'. He made that call last year, which means we're a certainty for next year.

I'm a fan of optimism, but club CEOs need to be a bit more restrained (or private) in their enthusiasms.
 

Snell1234

Team Captain
Mar 5, 2014
334
577
AFL Club
Collingwood
No-one wants to hear about the inexperience in our list as any type of explanation for how we've dropped off in the second part of this season. The counter argument to this youth 'excuse' is that the Dogs have done particularly well this season with a very young list.

The fact that the Dogs have shot ahead with kids after losing experienced players like Higgins, Griffen and Cooney last year, suggests we've gone awry, badly.

Yet the fact remains the Dogs are a few years ahead in their youth development. Their early young draft picks are a few years into the system while our early young picks have just hatched. The Dogs started to drop off and land early picks post 2009 while we dropped off post 2012 for our early picks.

There's youth, and there's youth. A young player 3-4 seasons in is not the same as a young player 1-2 seasons in. Especially when we're talking about top-end picks and when two of our top 10's of 2 drafts ago have 2 games between them. You can call it an excuse but there are just some realities you can't leapfrog. Like a tank and a strong body, like experience and tricks.

It's worth remembering that the Dogs ended 15th last year. 15th. There is no stepping over some realities, no matter how many platitudes and exhortations you want to lay down.

The mad Pol Pot thought Cambodia could leapfrog the reality of that countries situation and declare it as some advanced state by simply stating it as a fact and by dent of ridiculous dictates. Any tit can declare whatever they like by fiat. I can declare I'm the Queen of Sheeba but wanting something to be so doesn't make it so.

So when I read stuff in here about pulling the structure down on top of us, and starting again from year zero, I am bemused. We've got to stay the course.
The bulldogs are at least one year ahead of us in their rebuild. In their equivalent year as us last year, they had their coach sacked.

You could even argue they are further than a year ahead as ours has been set back due to the injuries of scharenberg and freeman.

Let's see how we go over the next two years before we make any judgements.

I used to be Buckley's harshest critic, but I have seen enough this year to suggest he is a good coach. In fact, I've never been more comfortable and confident with where we are heading under Buckley than now.

You'll all see in 2 years time.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Back