Analysis Youth and Pol Pot crazies

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May 25, 2006
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You haven't mentioned the quality of youth.

The quality of the bulldogs youth is far greater than ours if you compare lists with an unbiased eye.

Yep They are fantastic. So were Ports the last two years.

Something to aim for. Theres always something to aim for. Youth policy by its nature is hit and miss as well as unreliable in timing of when players will come good.

We could be sixth on the ladder and this thread would still be just as valid. In hindsight of course....which is my point.....

Where were all the "Dogs have better youth" arguments this time last year? Whose to say we cant get there just like the Dogs did the year and the Power did two years ago?
 

Kappa

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Yep They are fantastic. So were Ports the last two years.

Something to aim for. Theres always something to aim for. Youth policy by its nature is hit and miss as well as unreliable in timing of when players will come good.

We could be sixth on the ladder and this thread would still be just as valid. In hindsight of course....which is my point.....

Where were all the "Dogs have better youth" arguments this time last year? Whose to say we cant get there just like the Dogs did the year and the Power did two years ago?

Going to need Kennedy Broomhead and Freeman to all become good/elite young players, as well as Scharenberg to stay.
 
May 25, 2006
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Going to need Kennedy Broomhead and Freeman to all become good/elite young players, as well as Scharenberg to stay.

Yep and Ramsay Moore Grundy Adams Marsh De Goey Maynard Crisp .theres plenty there. Add a Treloar. If Sharenburg goes we will get good trade value for him...just a minor setback.
 
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Ketchup

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The dogs haven't beaten a side in the top 8 since round 5. Which was Sydney by 4 points. Which we should of won. They have also only won 3 games away from Etihad, 1 at the MCG. So have won 2 games outside of Victoria. One which was their home game against Gold Coast in Cazaly stadium (where ever the hell that is). The bulldogs season has been incredibly over rated.

Since round 12 their wins have come from, Lions, St kilda, Carlton, Gold Coast, Us, Essendon, Port Adelaide and Melbourne all at Etihad stadium (except Gold Coast). Losses to Geelong and West Coast. If it was our draw it would be about how they have beaten nobody, but because they play an attractive brand of football its "How good are the dogs". They're a year ahead of us, but they aren't world beaters.
 
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You haven't mentioned the quality of youth.

The quality of the bulldogs youth is far greater than ours if you compare lists with an unbiased eye.

The 'unbiased eye' would require comparing players at similar age and draft position which is precisely what we can't do right now. Moore and De Goey look to me to be tracking very well for first year, teenage players. Scharenberg and Freeman we all know about as second year players with 2 games collective experience owing to injury.

Of our other young guys, I think Maynard and Marsh as teenagers, teenagers, project very nicely. I'll search for a post I made in another thread comparing the two lists and drop it in here.

EDIT: Here it is.

The Dogs youth rebuild started a little earlier than ours with more early draft picks. I think what you want to look at are the number of our early draft picks and their age. The Dogs have 7 best 22 players 21 or under while we have 13.

Dogs
Liberatore (23)
Campbell (23)
Dalhaus (23 next week)
Talia (22)
Wallis (22)
Johannisen (22)
Jong (22)
Stringer (21)
McCrae (21)
Hrovat (21)
Boyd (20)
Hunter (20)
Bontempelli (19)
Webb (19)

Pies

Frost (23)
Fasolo (23)
Seedsman (23)
Elliot (23 next week)
Adams (22)
Williams (22)
Witts (22)
Grundy (21)
Kennedy (21)
Langdon (21)
Crisp (21)
Broomhead (21)
Oxley (21)
Ramsay (20)
Freeman (20)
Scharenberg (19)
Moore (19)
Marsh (19)
De Goey (19)
Maynard (18)
 
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Kappa

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The 'unbiased eye' would require comparing players at similar age and draft position which is precisely what we can't do right now. Moore and De Goey look to me to be tracking very well for first year, teenage players. Scharenberg and Freeman we all know about as second year players with 2 games collective experience owing to injury.

Of our other young guys, I think Maynard and Marsh as teenagers, teenagers, project very nicely. I'll search for a post I made in another thread comparing the two lists and drop it in here.

EDIT: Here it is.

The Dogs youth rebuild started a little earlier than ours with more early draft picks. I think what you want to look at are the number of our early draft picks and their age. The Dogs have 6 best 22 players 21 or under while we have 13.

Dogs
Liberatore (23)
Campbell (23)
Dalhaus (23 next week)
Talia (22)
Wallis (22)
Johannisen (22)
Jong (22)
Stringer (21)
McCrae (21)
Hrovat (21)
Hunter (20)
Bontempelli (19)
Webb (19)

Pies

Frost (23)
Fasolo (23)
Seedsman (23)
Elliot (23 next week)
Adams (22)
Williams (22)
Witts (22)
Grundy (21)
Kennedy (21)
Langdon (21)
Crisp (21)
Broomhead (21)
Oxley (21)
Ramsay (20)
Freeman (20)
Scharenberg (19)
Moore (19)
Marsh (19)
De Goey (19)
Maynard (18)

You don't have Boyd on that list but he'll end up better than Moore, just needs some time to develop seeing as he relies on wrestling (eg Hawkins)
 

Ketchup

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You don't have Boyd on that list but he'll end up better than Moore, just needs some time to develop seeing as he relies on wrestling (eg Hawkins)
I think Boyd is really going to struggle at AFL level. Apart from strength, there isn't much aspect to his game. The game has moved on from forwards like him.
 
Oct 6, 2004
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You don't have Boyd on that list but he'll end up better than Moore, just needs some time to develop seeing as he relies on wrestling (eg Hawkins)

Maybe, but i reckon our window opens up in about 2 years and cloke will still be around playing good footy.

We get too caught up in guys under 23 when comparing lists. What you need to do is look at your list when the premiership window opens.

A forward line with cloke and moore will be perfect. Forwards play into their 30s (namely pav, riewoldt, petrie)

Pendles, sidebottom etc will still also be playing a high level of football.

Its just about fast tracking our youth to get to a stage where we can push for a flag whilst still having cloke and pendlebury.

If you do depth charts, i think our list is still a very good one
 

Kappa

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Maybe, but i reckon our window opens up in about 2 years and cloke will still be around playing good footy.

We get too caught up in guys under 23 when comparing lists. What you need to do is look at your list when the premiership window opens.

A forward line with cloke and moore will be perfect. Forwards play into their 30s (namely pav, riewoldt, petrie)

Pendles, sidebottom etc will still also be playing a high level of football.

Its just about fast tracking our youth to get to a stage where we can push for a flag whilst still having cloke and pendlebury.

If you do depth charts, i think our list is still a very good one

It's all well and good to have depth, but you also need multiple A grade superstars (particularly in the midfield) to win a premiership.

Swan probably won't be around in 2-3 years, Pendles will be 30 years old... so who will be our next All Australian midfielders?

Our next Beams Thomas Pendlebury Swan?

Kennedy? Nope

Freeman? His career is still up in the air

Adams? Slight chance, but his disposal kills us.

Broomhead? He'll be a good player, but not an A grader imo.

Crisp? Solid player but won't end up a superstar

De Goey? Probably the best chance, too early to say though.
 

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THATSGOLD

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It's all well and good to have depth, but you also need multiple A grade superstars (particularly in the midfield) to win a premiership.

Swan probably won't be around in 2-3 years, Pendles will be 30 years old... so who will be our next All Australian midfielders?

Our next Beams Thomas Pendlebury Swan?

Kennedy? Nope

Freeman? His career is still up in the air

Adams? Slight chance, but his disposal kills us.

Broomhead? He'll be a good player, but not an A grader imo.

Crisp? Solid player but won't end up a superstar

De Goey? Probably the best chance, too early to say though.
So you are saying Hine has lost the plot?
 
The dogs haven't beaten a side in the top 8 since round 5. Which was Sydney by 4 points. Which we should of won. They have also only won 3 games away from Etihad. One which was their home game against Gold Coast in Cazaly stadium (where ever the hell that is). The bulldogs season has been incredibly over rated.

Since round 12 their wins have come from, Lions, St kilda, Carlton, Gold Coast, Us, Essendon, Port Adelaide and Melbourne all at Etihad stadium (except Gold Coast). Losses to Geelong and West Coast. If it was our draw it would be about how they have beaten nobody, but because they play an attractive brand of football its "How good are the dogs". They're a year ahead of us, but they aren't world beaters.

They've won 13 games which isn't too shabby. They beat Sydney, Richmond, Adelaide and were pretty close to West and Fremantle early in the season when they were fresh. The run-home was almost the reverse of ours.

That being said, the talk hasn't come from them. They are probably ahead of where they anticipated being and therefore I don't think they're over-rated, at least internally and based on start of season projections by everyone. People getting carried away externally is no poor reflection on a club.
 
Jul 21, 2008
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You don't have Boyd on that list but he'll end up better than Moore, just needs some time to develop seeing as he relies on wrestling (eg Hawkins)
If there is one draftee who I believe is going to be a win win for us it is Moore. He is an exciting combination of height, athleticism and speed. He will not play the same role in our team as Boyd. We need to draft a replacement for Cloke, who has struggled to make an impact much of the year anyway, and Moore is not that player, but an exciting prospect in his own right. It is unfair to compare Moore and Boyd, or Moore and Hawkins. We nailed our 2 top 10 picks last year. No complaint from me on Moore.
 
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It's all well and good to have depth, but you also need multiple A grade superstars (particularly in the midfield) to win a premiership.

Swan probably won't be around in 2-3 years, Pendles will be 30 years old... so who will be our next All Australian midfielders?

Our next Beams Thomas Pendlebury Swan?

Kennedy? Nope

Freeman? His career is still up in the air

Adams? Slight chance, but his disposal kills us.

Broomhead? He'll be a good player, but not an A grader imo.

Crisp? Solid player but won't end up a superstar

De Goey? Probably the best chance, too early to say though.

We will hipefully get treloar and aish this year, sidebottom is also young. Hopefully we retain scharenberg because he is looking really good now at vfl level. And maynard is the youngest on our list at 18 and i reckon he will be a gun.

Pendlebury will play into his 30s as he has been pretty durable. Jamie elliott could be anything as well.

Grundy can be a star ruckman, and marsh will be an elite defender and moore an elite forward. Thats a good spine in the making.

De goey and broomhead im veru confident on...and lets just keep our fingers crossed on treloar.

Then there are a few from left field who could be jets like abbott, cox and nathan freeman.

I reckon that list is mouth watering to be honest.

Swan is the only one on our list i reckon will miss our premiership window, but even he is in great form so may hang in there
 

Ketchup

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They've won 13 games which isn't too shabby. They beat Sydney, Richmond, Adelaide and were pretty close to West and Fremantle early in the season when they were fresh. The run-home was almost the reverse of ours.

That being said, the talk hasn't come from them. They are probably ahead of where they anticipated being and therefore I don't think they're over-rated, at least internally and based on start of season projections by everyone. People getting carried away externally is no poor reflection on a club.
100%. But I don't think we have missed the mark internally as well. What is said in public and whats going on internally are completely different. If they weren't, Nathan Buckley has failed two years in a row according to the club and he should well be sacked for not meeting expectations, the fact he hasn't said it all. The talk didn't come from us either, or the media infact. But it was us supporters (not all), you ask any football identity where they had us placed in 2015 and most will say "they're were I thought they would be", but it was us supporters that on a consistent basis was saying "when is the media going to notice us, why is it always an easy draw etc etc."

I generally believe we're in the same area as the dogs they play a better brand on the eye and thats about it, a little bit of luck has gone their way, such as the Sydney game, where we have had none go our way add in bad kicking in the Hawthorn, Fremantle, Port, Richmond (first time), Sydney games etc.

Next year we will win those games against those 5 sides it they played the same way again. And that is the extra year the dogs has had on us with development.
 

Soaring Magpie

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There is certainly a lot to work with over the next 2-3 years, give the young blokes a couple of preseasons and this side will be exciting to watch. Just got to hang tough for now.
 
Jul 21, 2008
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We will hipefully get treloar and aish this year,
I have heard this a number of times but has anyone explained how we are going to get both these players with one top 20 draft pick? And if we do get both players, where is the drafting of another KPF feature in our plans. Good KPF players don't come cheaply unless McKenzie at Richmond defies the low pick at which he was taken and becomes a regular in the AFL team.

I can see how we might pick up Treloar and Aish if Scharenberg leaves but otherwise don't see how mathematically we can get both.
 

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Another "a team above us on the ladder is better than us" thread.

Last year it was Port Adelaide, fyi.

I can do this too. Theres young teams below us on the ladder who are much worse than us!

Port Adelaide still are.

Let's hope the Dogs aren't next year.
 
I was converted by the way we played in the patch where we didn't win, funnily enough.

The game plan had developed and it was good enough to take it up against the best sides - something we hadn't done since 2011.

We have dropped off later this year to a number of factors. Injuries, kids tiring, heads dropping after playing so well for no results.

People forget how young our team is.
Genuinely please that someone who was a Buckley critic can see this season for what it is. Nice one :thumbsu:
 

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