Zac Clarke

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Mattdougie said:
We are not into Clarke we are after McEvoy

Carlisle is holding out as the Hawks are sniffing around, they are trying to steal Dabger but if they don't they are into Carlisle. If they get him they will need to release some players to fit him in ie Lake McEvoy
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Thought he was good last night when the dockers pushed. He would be a great get
 

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I've got little interest in McEvoy. Games we got exposed in the ruck it was... Wait for it... In the ruck. Clarkes better in ruck contests.

im as confident in misunderstoods info as I would be MDs though anyway
 
Zgope1 said:
I've got little interest in McEvoy. Games we got exposed in the ruck it was... Wait for it... In the ruck. Clarkes better in ruck contests.

im as confident in misunderstoods info as I would be MDs though anyway
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over 500k per year seems like a hell of a lot of money for another club's fringe player. Wouldn't be surprised if we were interested in Clarke, but would be surprised if we were offering him that much.
 
bobby2 said:
over 500k per year seems like a hell of a lot of money for another club's fringe player. Wouldn't be surprised if we were interested in Clarke, but would be surprised if we were offering him that much.
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Yeah me too, hopefully it's a bit less. I don't stress too much about the reported contract offers. Don't know how anyone hears of that stuff. He'd play ruck for is though with rough. No doubt about that
 
Here's a good plan. We get McEvoy and pay Hawks draft picks for the privilege.

As a bonus Hawks free up salary cap to get Danger, Leuey and use our McEvoy picks to get Bennell/Aish/Carlisle.

Hawks dynasty continues.
 
Zgope1 said:
I've got little interest in McEvoy. Games we got exposed in the ruck it was... Wait for it... In the ruck. Clarkes better in ruck contests.

im as confident in misunderstoods info as I would be MDs though anyway
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Bev doesn't rate ruckman he wants someone that can compete and then go forward and take marks

I can honestly tel you thy I hadn't heard a whisper on McEvoy and then I basically got it from the horses mouth

Take that as you will
 
Mattdougie said:
Bev doesn't rate ruckman he wants someone that can compete and then go forward and take marks

I can honestly tel you thy I hadn't heard a whisper on McEvoy and then I basically got it from the horses mouth

Take that as you will
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have you seen McEvoy kick at goal?.....
 
Mattdougie said:
Bev doesn't rate ruckman he wants someone that can compete and then go forward and take marks

I can honestly tel you thy I hadn't heard a whisper on McEvoy and then I basically got it from the horses mouth

Take that as you will
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Bev rates ruckmen, and if he doesn't, I don't rate him.

But he does, luckily. And Mcevoys a bad option from the rucking viewpoint
 
Zgope1 said:
Yeah me too, hopefully it's a bit less. I don't stress too much about the reported contract offers. Don't know how anyone hears of that stuff. He'd play ruck for is though with rough. No doubt about that
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I'm not convinced that Beveridge would like the 2 rucks + Boyd setup. This actually makes me wonder whether we're considering moving Roughead on. He is suited to a 50-50 ruck split, but Boyd is suited to playing 10-15% in the ruck- they don't really fit together. People keep mentioning how there could be a surprise well-liked player up for trade. If we get a first ruckman (Martin/McEvoy/Clarke?) and a key defender, Roughead won't be best 22, but he would have decent currency. Obviously he's handy depth and I'd very happily keep him, but it's hard to see who else is being floated in these deals for the likes of Carlisle, a ruckman, Haynes and Tomlinson. With Hale ageing and McEvoy potentially leaving, Hawthorn could entertain Roughead as an option, as could the Giants who are looking for a backup to mumford.
 

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bobby2 said:
I'm not convinced that Beveridge would like the 2 rucks + Boyd setup. This actually makes me wonder whether we're considering moving Roughead on. He is suited to a 50-50 ruck split, but Boyd is suited to playing 10-15% in the ruck- they don't really fit together. People keep mentioning how there could be a surprise well-liked player up for trade. If we get a first ruckman (Martin/McEvoy/Clarke?) and a key defender, Roughead won't be best 22, but he would have decent currency. Obviously he's handy depth and I'd very happily keep him, but it's hard to see who else is being floated in these deals for the likes of Carlisle, a ruckman, Haynes and Tomlinson. With Hale ageing and McEvoy potentially leaving, Hawthorn could entertain Roughead as an option, as could the Giants who are looking for a backup to mumford.
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I doubt we'd move on the bloke Bev himself made Vice Captain.
 
immortalmike said:
I doubt we'd move on the bloke Bev himself made Vice Captain.
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Yeah, I agree it's unlikely, but that's kind of why I thought it sounded like what people have been alluding to (someone unexpected, who is well liked, but not necessarily one of our stars- I honestly can't think of anyone who fits the description better). Couple that with the fact that he could fit another team's structure better (i.e. a team where he can play second ruck and complement the key forwards) and I think it's possible that we could be shopping him around for the right offer.

Bev did make him vice captain before the team played together. At the time, Roughead was considered our best key defender. A lot has changed since then, and more could change if we recruit a ruckman and a key defender. I also think the decision to make him VC would've been more based on his leadership ability than how he fits within the team structure.
 
bobby2 said:
Yeah, I agree it's unlikely, but that's kind of why I thought it sounded like what people have been alluding to (someone unexpected, who is well liked, but not necessarily one of our stars- I honestly can't think of anyone who fits the description better). Couple that with the fact that he could fit another team's structure better (i.e. a team where he can play second ruck and complement the key forwards) and I think it's possible that we could be shopping him around for the right offer.

Bev did make him vice captain before the team played together. At the time, Roughead was considered our best key defender. A lot has changed since then, and more could change if we recruit a ruckman and a key defender. I also think the decision to make him VC would've been more based on his leadership ability than how he fits within the team structure.
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Who's alluding to such a player being traded?

And while you're right that he was made VC before the team had played under Bev. Bev does seem to rate Roughy, often rushing him back early and talking about him as integral in pressers. But stranger things have happened, although I'd hate to lose our captain and vice in consecutive years.
 
Hypothetically speaking if we did, what would Roughy be worth on the trade table? His best is good, Looks to be starting to get some continuity. Would a late first rounder be too much?
 
Pugz89 said:
Hypothetically speaking if we did, what would Roughy be worth on the trade table? His best is good, Looks to be starting to get some continuity. Would a late first rounder be too much?
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I'm going to bow out of this. You guys feel free to discuss it though, I have a bit of an attachment to big Rough.
 
Cori said:
I am warming to Clarke too. He and Wallis could form the 'fro-brigade in the centre. AFL needs more afros.
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Libba could fro it up too with some effort. It we can add chris mayne and get a decent pre season into his hair we'd have the makings of a great fro spine. Thank god Higgins left and took that sailor boy cut with him.
 
Kretiukwasking said:
Thought he was good last night when the dockers pushed. He would be a great get
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That's the type of role he played at St Kilda regularly

His ability to drop behind play and help the defence out is excellent, a bit old fashioned but still a nice quality to have onfield, imo he's very team oriented too.





We know Bev wants someone who can get around the ground, McEvoy can get around the ground, sick of seeing posters say "no don't want him his ruck work is s**t" but the same posters would probably like injury-prone types such as Kreuzer or Leuenberger on huge money just because they would come for free. IMO you don't pay big bucks for blokes who potentially could spend long periods of time out injured, then become useless to the team onfield and a liability in terms of salary cap space as we might not get value for money out of those guys. Roughead's and Cordy's ruckwork is worse than McEvoy's FFS and McEvoy is better around the ground than both. Can't have it both ways imo, play to their strengths, Bev always plays people to their strengths and doesn't prioritise working on their weaknesses that much like our former coach did. McEvoy has shown flexibility this season at Hawthorn imo.


So out of all rucks we've genuinely been linked to by the media or by posters on here (excluding Kreuzer now as he just re-signed)

Pros
  • Martin - athletic, highest production ruckman in the league in terms of a complete ruckmans game (marks, disposals, hitouts, tackles etc), in career best form currently, hasn't played a lot of AFL footy for a person at his age so may not have the same wear and tear as others his age and could play well into his 30s, seems to be a genuine late bloomer
  • McEvoy has developed some forward craft at Hawthorn this season after first struggling up there last year, knows how to ruck one out very well (did this at St Kilda) but can effectively play in a duo also, just turned 26, very accountable defensively, great reader/interceptor of the ball
  • Clarke - athletic, played solid footy in 2013 when he was Freo's number one when Sandi/Griffin were injured, is 25 and would get him cheapish in terms of trade-able assets (2nd rounder/pick upgrades/PSD), could be a late bloomer if given a chance
  • Leuenberger - best tap ruck out of the four, can take a mark around the ground when rucking one out, free agent only costing salary space
Cons
  • Martin - has soft-tissue injury history, is 28 nearly 29, would cost a first rounder or close to it
  • McEvoy - people think his ruckwork is suss, imo it may be the bigger bodied clearance type rucks he struggles against (Sandi, Mumford, Minson etc), would cost a first rounder
  • Clarke - apparently lacks intensity, not suited as a 2nd ruck resting forward, though he has been hidden by Sandi for a long time, $500k a season? Hell no, would rather Melksham on $400k a year :oops::$
  • Leuenberger - made of glass, durability is horrible, like Clarke he struggles up forward and is better suited to playing as a lone ruck
immortalmike said:
Who's alluding to such a player being traded?

And while you're right that he was made VC before the team had played under Bev. Bev does seem to rate Roughy, often rushing him back early and talking about him as integral in pressers. But stranger things have happened, although I'd hate to lose our captain and vice in consecutive years.
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McEvoy was in St Kilda's VC/leadership group and touted as their next captain when he was traded IIRC, Colbert was Geelong's captain when traded to Norf. Not a good look but could be a sacrifice/hard decision made on someone who might be a liability in the future, I hope Roughy can contribute going forward but what's his best position? He's too slow as a KPD and he rucks best with help from someone, but as a number one he struggles, we don't want Boyd and Roughead in the same forward line also, they are too similar in terms of size. The fact Roughy re-signed this year makes me think he's close to no chance moving on now, but if he doesn't improve/fit into the team next year or in 2017, then the writing may be on the wall for him.



Thanks for that Mattdougie, makes sense to me that Hawthorn would push someone out if Carlisle or Danger nominated them. Both players would fit a future succession plan for Hawthorn (Carlisle in for Lake/Gibson, Danger in for Mitchell/Hodge/Lewis), hope you're on the money again. Imo ruckman are very expendable, I reckon Hawthorn would find someone if he moved on, they have a knack of finding talls.
 
Zgope1 said:
Bev rates ruckmen, and if he doesn't, I don't rate him.

But he does, luckily. And Mcevoys a bad option from the rucking viewpoint
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Then why aren't we into the clearance beasts like Mumford, Maric, Lobbe etc who have excellent ruck craft?

Why did Minson get dropped? I'll tell you why, they aren't mobile enough around the ground in Bev's gameplan.



Bev wants a mobile ruck who can provide spread or has other qualities around the ground, McEvoy or Clarke might be someone who ticks more boxes overall than the clearance beasts. McEvoy is pretty durable also and has shown he can work in a duo or play solo ruck.

Perfect rucks like Goldstein or maybe Max Gawn (next elite ruck imo) are unattainable as the cost is too high, we have to make do with someone who fits into our system and has more pros than cons.
 
go you pups said:
Then why aren't we into the clearance beasts like Mumford, Maric, Lobbe etc who have excellent ruck craft?

Why did Minson get dropped? I'll tell you why, they aren't mobile enough around the ground in Bev's gameplan.



Bev wants a mobile ruck who can provide spread or has other qualities around the ground, McEvoy or Clarke might be someone who ticks more boxes overall than the clearance beasts. McEvoy is pretty durable also and has shown he can work in a duo or play solo ruck.

Perfect rucks like Goldstein or maybe Max Gawn (next elite ruck imo) are unattainable as the cost is too high, we have to make do with someone who fits into our system and has more pros than cons.
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My perfect ruckman is Mumford, sure he's had a few injuries lately. He has the mix of athleticism, grunt and campaigner that I like. He can kick goals, crack heads and get around the ground. He also genuinely taps well.
Is he worth trying for?
 
Zephiisdaman said:
My perfect ruckman is Mumford, sure he's had a few injuries lately. He has the mix of athleticism, grunt and campaigner that I like. He can kick goals, crack heads and get around the ground. He also genuinely taps well.
Is he worth trying for?
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Lobbe for etc is far more athletic than Mumford imo

Mumford is in the Minson/Maric category of ruck imo and he's extremely injury-prone also, he doesn't miss whole seasons, but he does seem to miss 5-10 games a year affected by injury. He can take a grab up forward when resting but he doesn't spread that well around the ground imo. I would guess his contested possessions ratio is extremely high.
 
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