Sorry I forgot Champion Data ranking, contested possessions, score involvements, goal assists, tackles, and hard ball gets.
Pretty much every key stat for ruckmen that there is.
2 years younger, still learning the game.
Zac Smith v Nic Naitinui v Other
- Thread starter bballscout
- Start date
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Sorry I forgot Champion Data ranking, contested possessions, score involvements, goal assists, tackles, and hard ball gets.
Pretty much every key stat for ruckmen that there is.
2 years younger, still learning the game.
WCE92_94_06
Rookie
Yes Teffy goldstein is a good young ruckman, but you should stop with your opinions on eagles players because the make your opinions on north players far less credible.
NM blokes, we don't care if Nicnat had a better or worse game than Goldstein on the weekend (who is two years older than him anyway), but honestly **** off trying to tell us that Nic wasn't the most effectual ruckman on the ground on Sunday - bet you guys didn't even watch the game but automatically give bragging rights to Sandi because he won the hitouts. Even Freo fans would back me up here.
Goldstein may very well be ahead of Naitanui at this stage, but don't try telling us something about our player, who I bet you have barely even seen, that we don't already know.
Goldstein may very well be ahead of Naitanui at this stage, but don't try telling us something about our player, who I bet you have barely even seen, that we don't already know.
Just a question for you Tef, if you return:
You have 2 players, A and B
Both play in the same role, as a second ruckman, over a whole season.
A is 2 years younger than B
A beats B in all key statistical areas for their position over the year
Which player do you take?
Can we get back to the core of the thread now and discuss Smith and Naitanui?
You have 2 players, A and B
Both play in the same role, as a second ruckman, over a whole season.
A is 2 years younger than B
A beats B in all key statistical areas for their position over the year
Which player do you take?
Can we get back to the core of the thread now and discuss Smith and Naitanui?
Good post. North feeling a bit left out methinks.
Between Smith and Naitanui, both will be elite in the future. Who will be better? It really depends on how Naitanui develops. His ceiling is certainly higher.
- Banned
- #81
I don't remember Nic Nat "smashing" Goldstein once.
- Banned
- #82
Spartan
Brownlow Medallist
That makes Goldstein a better player and/or prospect?
When they were both 2nd rucks last year, Naitanui statistically > Goldstein statistically. /thread
Hahaahaha. You still can't grasp that stats don't tell the full story can you? Especially in regards to NN.
- Banned
- #85
The best all round player. Goldstein.
This thread is actually titled, "Zac Smith v Nic Naitinui v Other", although I can see why you would want to narrow the comparison to just Zac Smith v Nic Naitinui.
How quickly we forget.
Tune in to ABC at 1pm this Saturday to witness the single most dominant half of VFL footy that'll ever be played - until next weekend.
Tune in to ABC at 1pm this Saturday to witness the single most dominant half of VFL footy that'll ever be played - until next weekend.
- Banned
- #87
How quickly we forget.
Tune in to ABC at 1pm this Saturday to witness the single most dominant half of VFL footy that'll ever be played - until next weekend.
He'll make an excellent CHF.
He'll make an excellent CHF.
He'll make an excellent anything. He's already shown some prowess as a crumbing forward.
- Banned
- #89
He'll make an excellent anything. He's already shown some prowess as a crumbing forward.
Yep, a very good prospect, and I think he is a more natural forward than a ruckman, and at the end of the day if you had to choose which way to go with a talented tall player, you would take them as a forward every time.
Not only that, be he actually fills a badly needed requirement for Carlton.
I'm sure he'll play a lot up forward early but while he's not dominant in the hitouts, his work around the ground is phenomenal for a big man. Would not be at all surprised to see him line up on the wing at times or even as a pure mid ala Naitanui at WC (he's done a couple times in the past) if the club isn't keen on him rucking too often.
Ochre
Stop the Steal!
but but but
Goldsteins stats playing a full game v no ruckman is better than NicNats stats playing a half v Sandi
- Banned
- #93
Goldstein's stats are only marginally better this year, but considering that Goldstein is North's number 1 Ruckman atm, compared to Nic, who's behind Cox, Goldstein's stats should be much, much further in front than what they are. Either Naita is a very good back-up Ruckman, or Goldstein is getting poor numbers for a starting Ruckman.
Btw Teffy, with a join date of May 2011, why did you find the need to use a troll alias? It's funny how North have the biggest BF presence, yet smallest fan base and membership. Perhaps you should buy a North membership, then also use multiple alias' to buy multiple memberships, so North's members are as numerous, proportionally, to their presence on BF.
"Yawn" is watching North play. Hence "Yawn" is also what so-called North fans do when it comes time to deciding whether to buy a club membership or having to decide whether they can be bothered rocking up for a North game.
Btw Teffy, with a join date of May 2011, why did you find the need to use a troll alias? It's funny how North have the biggest BF presence, yet smallest fan base and membership. Perhaps you should buy a North membership, then also use multiple alias' to buy multiple memberships, so North's members are as numerous, proportionally, to their presence on BF.
"Yawn" is watching North play. Hence "Yawn" is also what so-called North fans do when it comes time to deciding whether to buy a club membership or having to decide whether they can be bothered rocking up for a North game.
- Banned
- #94
You can't factor in TOG without factoring in the benefits of having a top liner like Cox in support and the associated benefits that come with consistent resting.
You WCE folks are trying to have your cake and eat it too, and you just come off as looking desperate.
- Banned
- #95
If Naita was a starting Ruckman, he would more often than not be at the stoppages and in a position to be in the play more than he is presently as a back-up Ruckman. To say otherwise is naive, ignorant and daft.
Goldstein gets rested at some stages too, but unlike Naita, has a more prominent role, yet his figures are still comparable to WC's number two.
How about matching apples with apples. 2nd Ruckman against a 2nd Ruckman. You won't compare them apples because it won't be favourable to your argument. Last year stats compared between the two, for example.
Despite Goldstein being North's number 1 and Nic being WC's number 2 this year, stats are almost similar. That says it all. How do you like them apples?
- Banned
- #96
Again, read my previous post for the important data you are conveniently overlooking.
If Goldstein was playing second fiddle to Cox he would crap all over NicNats output and average 2-3 goals a match besides carrying his share of the ruck duties.
NicNat is a ruckman, or he is resting.
Goldstein is a ruckman AND a forward.
Why would I compare a number one ruckman to a number two ruckman unless I was a desperate West Coast supporter with a high emotional investment in a number one draft pick, that causes me to skew data in an attempt to wallpaper highly visible flaws and limitations?
I don't need to bother with that. Goldstein is the better player, and what's more he is a better player taken 36 picks later in the draft.
WINNING!
Do you actually believe that you have achieved some kind of victory? You're very funny.
- Banned
- #97
Important data? You haven't said anything relevant, let alone important.
If, if, but, but. As has been mentioned in this thread before, that's all you're offering up. If Goldstein was Cox's number 2, blahdy blah blah.
How can you make a comparison involving NicNat when you don't even know the extent of his role?
Naita rucks, occasionally playing as a rover, and kicks an adequate amount of goals when resting forward, when not resting on the bench. What's even more impressive about Naita's numbers this year is that WC have had a 3 ruck rotation with Lynch, which means Nic is accumulating his possessions and having an impact in even further limited time. Nic has a unique role for someone his size, because his athletic traits allow him to do things other Ruckmen are incapable of.
When it comes to young Ruckman cum forward's, Kreuzer is the man, not Goldstein.
A desperate supporter with too large an emotional attachment you are. Because this thread isn't about Goldstein, you had to push your man Goldstein in their like the fanboi you've proven to be. Accept the offended that it must cause you when no-one thinks that Goldstein is better than Naita, and move on. Your whole embarrassing diatribe regarding Goldstein is proof of your emotional attachment and need for validation from others who don't rate Goldstein as highly as other young Ruckmen like Naita, Kreuzer and Smith.
You talk about skewing data, yet you can't even get basic facts correct, such as "number 1 draft pick." Naita wasn't such. Furthermore, Goldstein was pick 37. This is further evidence of your lack of credibility. Because you're continually making such basic mistakes, how are you expected to not be seen as talking out of your anus when it comes to debating more complex matters. Give it up youngen, school is back in.
Better player, huh? Pass the doobie. Goldstein can't ruck, tap, jump, chase, tackle, pressure, make multiple efforts in the same passage of play, as Naita can. I could go on. Yet you say a limited, generic, dime-a-dozen Ruckman like Goldstein is better. Your need for validation ain't gonna come from BF. What's more, Naita's stats are just as good despite being a back-up and is two years younger.
You think pick 37 for a generic Ruckman is winning. That may be good for North, but your mob will have to start picking modern ruck greats of the game before claiming a win. Interestingly, Naita is ahead of the two modern greats (Cox and Sandilands) at a similar stage. So enjoy your under-performing dime-a-dozen, lumberer, while he has his 15 minutes in the sunshine due to injury.
Yes I do. Naita is an epic win. Did I mention that he dominated against Sandilands on the weekend. Goldstein probably has wet dreams of such, wishing that he could do what only Naita can do.
Just as North = mediocrity, Goldstein inevitably follows the same path. He's nothing more than the stock standard factory model.
Spartan
Brownlow Medallist
The 'blah blah' response.. the 'yawn' comeback and now the ol' tl;dr.
Perhaps you can follow up yet again with something along the lines of 'I know you are, you said you are, but what am I?!".
Btw no one is telling you not to be happy with your player. Goldstein is doing well, you could even say very well. However you look ignorant or simply come across as a troll when you keep trying to drag down Nic's current performances and potential.
