Ze Vurld Kupp - 2018 world cup thread

Discussion in 'Melbourne Demons' started by Cannon82, Jun 16, 2018.

  1. mrmonkey

    mrmonkey Club Legend

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    England will get another crack at a world cup next year with the Cricket and Rugby world cups are coming up, which are far more prestigious than the fifa world cup :p
     

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  2. Klyntonius

    Klyntonius Norm Smith Medallist

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    I've always had a soft spot for Croatia for no reason at all so I hope they take home the cup. Also, reading through their squad, I can't escape thinking of The Twelfth Man's soccer commentary.
     
  3. Russian Demon

    Russian Demon Club Legend

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    Bahahha, thats all I could hear watching the game!

    Also, sitting in a pub in the UK with a million pissed up fans singing Ïts coming home"at half time...... it was sweet!
     
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  4. Cannon82

    Cannon82 Brownlow Medallist

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    "Passes to Smith... I hope I've pronounced that correctly."

    Or Zmycz, as baby Zelic would say.
     
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  5. Cannon82

    Cannon82 Brownlow Medallist

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    Truly was a bottling by England. They were coasting for 75 minutes against a team that were running on fumes and managed to slip up twice. Second goal was the most unforgivable; Stones asleep at the wheel while a knackered Mandzukic showed a bit of anticipation, and that was the difference in the end.

    Sadly, don't think the final will be exciting viewing. Croatia one day less rest, three extra time matches in a row and a few of their key players are well over 30. Strinic is likely a scratching, although the bloke who came on in his place didn't look half bad, so might not be an issue there. Plus, their back line isn't exactly pacey so they're going to end up playing deep to try to nullify Mbappe and will end up stretched in the midfield, which will just about finish off Modric and Rakitic won't be far behind. Will take some magic for them to get up.

    And I've said it before, but is there any more fitting punishment for a team that has just lost their World Cup semi-final than being forced to take part in the 3rd place participation medal match? You'd be positively roaring as a player - they'll take the few extra days holiday before reporting straight back to their clubs for pre-season training.
     
  6. Klyntonius

    Klyntonius Norm Smith Medallist

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    Haha, that's my favourite part.

     
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  7. Tempy Tiger

    Tempy Tiger Premiership Player

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    Croatia has a population just over 4 million, how the hell do they compete against the soccer giants like Brazil, France and England? And why aren’t China, the US and India better given their respective populations? It’s the same with Rugby Union, I don’t get how NZ can be so dominant when they have so few potential athletes to draw from.
     
  8. Topkent

    Topkent Brownlow Medallist

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    because in NZ for example it's rugby or nothing. That and Pacific island athletes are almost unparalleled. India play cricket, US Bball and and Gridiron and China aren't a big team sports country.

    Plus soccer as a game invites these kinds of miracles with the nature of the low scores. I'd Croatia played France Germany and Brazil 10 times in a year they would probably be bottom of the group. That's how it works.
     
  9. Blackas87

    Blackas87 Norm Smith Medallist

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    was reading an English article a few weeks ago on Croatia and England from 4 years ago, just a coincidence they made the semi final. It was on why Croatia can produce a heap of talented players and compete with England. It was saying Kids in England are taught from a young age to play 11 on 11 playing on grass fields, taught how to pass and defend. In Croatia they don’t have the soccer fields they have in England, kids are taught on small ashfelt courts, playing 6 on 6, they are taught to take in their opponents on rather than the passing around they do in England. Kids in Croatia are taught a similar style to they way kids are taught in Brazil and South America.

    As for NZ in Rugby Union, not too many places around the world have Union as the number 1 sport, in Australia its AFL in the south, or Rugby league in the North, Europe its soccer.
     
  10. Tulip

    Tulip Brownlow Medallist

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    Standards of coaching are responding to this in Oz as well, albeit very late. As of next year, kids will only start playing 11v11 on full pitches for their clubs once they hit under 13s. Its puzzling, because participation rates and club enrolments in football are above those of AFL and the rugby codes - but there is no established pathway to the A-League; which itself is failing in its mission to unite the rest of Australian football around it.
     
  11. mrmonkey

    mrmonkey Club Legend

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    Makes me think of the 2010 world cup. New Zealand did very well even managed a draw against Italy. When you consider the population and the rugby factor it's an amazing effort. So I think you're right on the low scoring factor of the game giving lower rank teams a sniff if they can hang in.
     

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  12. 00Stinger

    00Stinger Duel Group 1 winner

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    A big thing is having players that play all over Europe in different leagues with different playing styles.

    Before Spain went on their domination around 2010 they were always seen as under achievers like England. Just before they hit this peak in the previous 4-5 years a lot of top line Spanish talent moved from Spain to the premier league and Bundesliga. This allowed players to learn a new style of football. This cannot be understated. England is probably still the only country where top line players very rarely if ever leave to play abroad. In fact Beckham, McManaman and to a lesser extent Joe Hart are the only significant players to do this over the last 25 years.

    The other main point with players playing over the world is that when international games are on the players are pumped to come back and meet up with each other rather than seeing it as a chore. This builds a much better team harmony and culture which gives any team a massive boost.

    I don't buy this whole 11 v 11 on grass as opposed to 6 v 6 on gravel argument tbh. You only have to look back at the last 20 odd years of the England team where they have had world class players like Terry, Ferninand, Ashley Cole, Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard, Shearer, Owen, Rooney & Beckham. They would all be walk up starts in any teams in the world yet they could not put it together on the park mainly due to the fact they considered their club rivalries bigger than Englands success

    Here is a good interview with Lampard, Ferdinand & Gerrard on the failure of the golden generation
     
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  13. Topkent

    Topkent Brownlow Medallist

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    I disagree with this, Spain and Germany's dominance came because their national teams were basically club sides.

    Spain had Pique Alba Iniesta Fabregas Villa Xavi Pedro Busquets all from Barcelona

    Germany had Lahm Neuer Boateng Schweinsteger Muller Gotze Kroos

    They basically built club sides.
     
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  14. Cannon82

    Cannon82 Brownlow Medallist

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    For the most part, Spanish teams have predominantly been picked from players plying their trade in Spain. Ditto Italy and England. Also, as a (dirty) Liverpool fan, you've overlooked your mate Michael Owen spent a wee bit of time overseas. Owen Hargreaves spent most of his time elsewhere. There have been a few others here and there (plus the Bundesliga is currently becoming a bit of a development ground for young Poms) fairly constantly, but yes, there was a dip after the likes of Gazza, Hughes, Waddle, Hoddle, etc. Also disgusted you've forgotten the epic two games Kevy Keegles played for Blacktown City in Sydney all those years ago.

    The 11 v 11 on a big field compared to the smaller sided games absolutely does have an influence. Smaller games require better technique, and less players means more touches for each player and more movement required. Kids playing on a big field will teach them to kick it long and they'll end up a bit fitter, but that's how you end up with the current Australian team, not the Australian team you want. Futsal, 5 a side, etc are absolutely what the young'uns and developing players should be playing, at the very least. As they get older, they can play full-size games in addition to that.

    I haven't watched the interview, but England's golden generation failed because they couldn't put it together on the park. Ever. Never had a manager who could form the world class talent they had in to a cohesive team. Instead of building a team around Scholes, they shunted him out to the left wing and he retired. Kept trying to shoe-horn Lampard and Gerrard into the same side instead of just dumping Gerrard into a vat of boiling oil. They had plenty of quality defensive options, but also enjoyed picking keepers who made the odd blunder. Despite the talent you listed above, the only player they had with any pace was Ashley Cole. Maybe if Giggs was English instead of Welsh, that 2000 ish era team might have had a chance.

    And, while it was England's "Golden Generation", most other countries around the world had just as good players without the heavy tag. Italy, Germany, Czech Republic, France, Brazil, Holland and the Argies had plenty of superstars of their own.
     
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  15. Cannon82

    Cannon82 Brownlow Medallist

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    Wouldn't say they built club sides, but the German and Spanish club sides for whatever reason don't seem to have any particular issues about selling their best home-grown talent to Barca / Real / Bayern for a reasonable fee. Of the big leagues, those three sides tend to be composed (recently) of a large contingent of the best national talent supplemented by the superstar imports. It's generally the other way around for English teams at the pointy end of the ladder, with a couple of decent local players and lots of foreign stars. Italy are somewhere in between yet are in a major slump, and France, Holland and the rest export their best players.
     
  16. jhong

    jhong Club Legend

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    Watched the 3rd place playoff , or EPL all stars game . If Kane was playing for Belgium he would have scored a hatrick .
     
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  17. Cannon82

    Cannon82 Brownlow Medallist

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    Lukaku's touch let him down a couple of times. Were a few chances he should have controlled and buried, there. Still, glad Belgium won, good on them. Meunier, Witsel and Hazard were both fantastic, de Bruyne wasn't great but still created chances.

    Similarly, if England had a Hazard floating off Kane instead of Rashford or Sterling, they'd be playing tonight and possibly favourites. Neither Rashford nor Sterling have put anything resembling decent football together this tournament - I wonder if Southgate had gone the other way and started Vardy up top and off the shoulder, which would allow Kane to float around the pitch and pick up the ball in space. It'd create space for one of them, and Vardy is quick with a decent finish on him so I think he'd have brought more to the table than the two young wingers.

    Also, the pre-match anthem this morning was interesting. Maybe I was imagining in, but Hazard looked pretty ticked off. He's the type of player who should be playing in tonight's game instead of partaking in Belgium's second friendly of the tournament. He's certainly been one of the best in this World Cup.
     
  18. jhong

    jhong Club Legend

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    Hazard is a beauty, should go to Real Madrid , etc . For an English team , their crossing was poor , sterling is a very skilled dumb player imo , still they did better than us I suppose . (Low bar) .
     
  19. Cannon82

    Cannon82 Brownlow Medallist

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    Eh, I hope he doesn't. He can be the main man at the likes of Chelsea, but I suppose he'd make a fair Ronaldo or Messi replacement. PSG might put in a ludicrous offer for him, too.

    Sterling isn't a bad player, but he's stuck out like a sore thumb for me in the England games I've seen. He dithered on the ball, slowed the play down and just wasted it time and time again. Far cry from the player he is at Man City. Looked like it was playing on his mind, too, given the complete lack of confidence with the ball.

    We're not much of a yardstick for anything. I enjoy talking about Australia because that's what most other people around here are interested in, but I couldn't really give a toss that we went out. There are far, far better teams to follow than us.
     
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  20. Cannon82

    Cannon82 Brownlow Medallist

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    Good first half, but pretty filthy about the refereeing. Go to the VAR and give a penalty for an incidental non-intentional handball in the box, yet Griezmann is going down two minutes before contact to win his free kick for the first goal and it's allowed to stand. Should have been a yellow for diving instead of 1-0 France. VAR has been a positive for this tournament, but it's supposed to be used to correct glaring mistakes, not punish incidental contact. Shithouse officiating on the biggest stage.

    Croatia have been impressive, but they're pressing hard and hitting with pace on the counter, so realistically they're going to nose-dive badly in the second half. Can't see them being able to keep up the same intensity for much more of the match. Modric and Perisic have been great but they need more from Rakitic. The guy again has been quiet and barely had an impact. They'd do better with Kramaric or Kovacic out there - Rakitic is playing on reputation at the moment.

    Would imagine Mbappe is going to be prominent in the second half once Croatia start committing more numbers forward to chase an equalizer. Ideally Croatia will jag a goal in the first 20 minutes of the half and can play with a bit of restraint. Otherwise France don't look particularly fluent. Giroud is isolated and Pogba, Mbappe and Griezmann have been well muzzled (free kick and penalty aside) thus far.
     
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  21. Topkent

    Topkent Brownlow Medallist

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    And there is the counter attacking third goal, not sure what Subasic was doing there. He anticipates the shot going one way and puts himself out of position for the save. Basically like Gilly taking 2 steps to the legside on a warney legspinner to a RHB.

    The penalty was a disgrace.
     
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  22. Pedantic

    Pedantic All Australian

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    Makes me sick. The refereeing cost Croatia both goals in the first half and I doubt the second half would be going the way it is if not for Croatia having to chase the game.

    The saddest thing is this is Croatia's golden generation -- it's hard to see them ever making it back to this stage.
     
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  23. Pedantic

    Pedantic All Australian

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    Hang on! Awful by Lloris lol
     
  24. Asada Mao

    Asada Mao Team Captain

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    no idea what the croatian keeper was doing for the 3rd and 4th goals. i know he would have seen them late, but he didn't even try to make a save.

    France's first two goals were a joke, wasn't a free kick or a penalty. Croatia have been the much better side
     
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  25. Topkent

    Topkent Brownlow Medallist

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    His footwork was horrific on both, anticipating the ball going the wrong way instead of moving with the shot.
     
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