I agree about rogic . Still mystified as to why luongo got no minutes at all . It's frustrating to see us just treading water so to speak .
Ze Vurld Kupp - 2018 world cup thread
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00Stinger
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Other than the opening game v Russia, Saudia Arabia gave a pretty decent account of themselves tbf
Tulip
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Yeah we’re definitely treading water. It would be misguided to blame BVM, he could only work with what he had
But he's just boring, boring, boring. As bad as Pim. Wasn't even inventive enough to make some team changes. We can blame him for not trying a few more players at least, can't we? Luongo anyone?
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Why are we so s**t at soccer? We normally bat well above average in other sports.
Do you think if we cancelled AFL, Rugby and Cricket and just focussed on soccer like a lot of the Europeans do, that we'd be any good?
Do you think if we cancelled AFL, Rugby and Cricket and just focussed on soccer like a lot of the Europeans do, that we'd be any good?
Russian Demon
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I think there may have been a few lucrative oil drilling contracts exchanged favourably to convince the Saudis to allow in 5 goals.
Cannon82
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It'd be a start but it wouldn't go close to closing the gap. Football is massive in Africa, it's the number one sport in many countries and they produce top-tier physical specimens as well as some of the world's best players. They still more often than not get turned over by more skilled and technical teams. The way we play is fairly similar; generally cover technical deficiencies by working harder and playing a more physical game.
Similarly, you could get rid of rugby league, soccer and AFL and think we'd be a good shout of turning over the Kiwis in union, but they'll keep punching above their weight until other places start training local teams 3-4 times per week from the Junior age levels. Got to build up the base of that pyramid to get better players at the pointy end.
00Stinger
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Alot of these countries especially the ones in Africa dont have the funding that we would have if soccer became our number 1 sport. Money plays a huge role in development.
Now im under no illusion that we would become a powerhouse like a Brazil or Germany. But I reckon we would sit on the next tier with countries like Uruguay and Croatia.
Having said all of that if the USA only had soccer they would be almost unbeatable
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Tulip
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Pim had a lot more to work with IMO. Bert’s choice was to go for it and get nailed, it play patiently and hope we could take the chances that came our way. Agree on Luongo, I’d have played him yesterday over Mile
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I'm fine with not hating on BvM, but surely people aren't claiming he did a good job? He didn't work miracles with the squad; he just parked the bus for three games like any hum-drum jumped up manager would do when playing against the big boys. We defended with 10 behind he ball, played two very deep defensive mids, tried to break teams down with three hard-working, willing but (very) limited players and let Rogic get isolated trying to link in between. Plus, I need more hands to count the number of times Risdon either was caught or went charging out of position, and I don't understand what the wingers were trying to do by playing so narrow up top (at times both Leckie and Kruse had run from the opposite side of the field past the near post). All they're doing is making it harder to score and crowding the goals. We were a sort of Spain 2014 clone where we had the lion's share of the ball for the game but spent most of that possession dinking it around in the back half and the shallow end of the opponent's half.
We created a few chances and were probably unlucky not to score, but we didn't deserve a result on the quality of play and didn't deserve to get out of the group on the performances we put out.
Re: Irvine and Rogic... sure, Irvine scored 10 or 11 goals in 2016/17, and Rogic scored 7. Irvine scored two goals last season, and Rogic scored 5. Plus Rogic has 7 in 40 for Australia while Irvine has 2 in 22. I know who I'd prefer to have on if we need to score goals, tired or not. That's not getting into assists either, and Rogic is clearly far more likely to drum a chance up for himself or someone else out of nothing.
Tulip
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Yep, we produce brilliant, hard working atheletes in this country but they mostly go play AFL and league. Imagine low-center of gravity players like Ablett, Rioli and Wingard playing soccer their whole lives. Not to mention coordinated giants like Dean Cox.
00Stinger
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the aboriginals would play a Brazilian type style imo.
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Money helps, but from a certain level when the Juniors start to hit the elite pathways. I doubt there are many kids in the US or Australia that are kicking taped up rags around in the street with their mates. Also not playing 5-a-side / Futsal religiously, and us developed nations would feature a far greater proportion of kids sitting inside playing FIFA on the couch instead of actually kicking a ball around. The US wouldn't suddenly become the best side in the world - most NFL players wouldn't be suited to the game, baseball... meh, basketball would be interesting if there were 10 lightning fast guys as tall as Peter Crouch on the park, but I'm sure they'd have their difficulties, too.
If money and population are the key factors, then surely China are the slumbering giants about to come into their own? Don't see it happening.
00Stinger
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the American dominate any sport they put cash and development into.
Basketball players with their height, agility, leap and explosive speed would make great defenders and/or strikers.
Most of the poor communities where the African American kids come from would be running around playing 5 a side kicking tapped up rags. Ditto the aboriginal kids in out back communities here.
Plus its not like kids in Spain, Germany, Italy and France dont have playstations
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I agree imagine combining all the money of afl nrl rugby and soccer and imagine the talent we could produce if soccer was the only football code. Not sure about nrl but you look at the talent the afl gets out of indigenous communities every team has at least 3-4 indigenous players. Also look at the broader community imagine how much funding could go into developing underprivileged people. I'm sure there's a lot of kids out there that can't afford to play aussie rules (maybe some more work could be done here) and soccer is even more expensive. I would like to think we could at least produced more players that could hit the onion bag. We shouldn't be desperately calling out to play a 38 year old to try find a goal. I don't know much about soccer but from what I have seen from the world cup I rarely felt excited when we attacked and I felt very nervous when opposition teams did. Anyway overall we weren't humiliated we played quality teams and just lacked some polish.
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They dominate basketball, baseball and NFL... what else? Track and field and swimming? Bit like saying we dominate the world in AFL; no one plays NFL, a few countries take baseball seriously and basketball is more widespread but the US is the top league and where all the best players play.
Kids in Spain, Germany, Italy and France absolutely do have their playstations, but they're also playing far more football / futsal / 5-a-side growing up.
I'm sure there are plenty of players with height, agility, leap and explosive speed all over the world, yet there aren't that many at the top level of football. I seriously doubt its because all the world's most impressive physical specimens are playing basketball. I'm sure being a huge gangly creature has its own set of drawbacks - big difference between throwing a ball around and kicking it.
Russian Demon
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To be honest, I blame the A league. 20 years ago, players like Aloisi were shipped off to Europe as 15 or 16 year olds to go and learn the right techniques from the best. As teenagers they experienced the high training standards, and if they made it through that, they were ready to compete on the international stage.
With the A-league and development pathways in Australia, kids won't leave here (if at all) until they are at least 18-20. Those formative years learning here (which lets face it, doesn't compete with the European club powerhouses) means they aren't as ready for top tier and are less likely to make it at the top level. In addition, the places these players go has changed. The money in China, India, Japan is actually pretty reasonable, so why wouldn't young players go there instead? That adds the complexity of game styles. If all your national players play in Europe, it stands to reason they come together to play a somewhat similar style. If they come from everywhere, its a mish mash.
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Yep, completely agree. The good players we had 10 or 15 years ago were generally developing in their late teens in England, Italy, Croatia, the Netherlands etc (Kewell, Neill, Cahill, Viduka, Skoko, Emerton, etc). I like the A League well enough because the old system was a s**t show, and I found myself watching games most Saturdays purely because I have nothing better to do with myself. We'll never have a decent league though because we're a backwater football nation - pour as much money into the A League as you like and trickle it down to grass roots, that still won't change. Having one or two fading former stars at your club isn't going to help a player develop as much as training against 40 other kids the same age who are at a much higher standard.
Styles across Europe still contrast pretty significantly and plenty of players have had trouble adapting to the different leagues. Juan Sebastian Veron and Diego Forlan probably the more recent popular exponents I can think of off the top of my head.
Talking about development I remembered something about Iceland and having over 800 coaches with some form of a uefa coaching license. For a population of 329000 that's quite impressive. They also have indoor stadia that kids can use. Here's an article https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/30012357
They also have football as a subject in primary school .
Topkent
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Kidding themselves if people are happy with the style of play? 3 scoreless open play games and the same exact formation tactics and substitutes.
We have s**t players, what's the point setting us up to maybe get lucky and win 1-0? I'd rather see us entertain and have a go even if we conceded goals. We achieved absolutely nothing at this world cup. Playing with 10 men behind the ball isn't something any manager couldn't do an our possession was a waste of time.
I thought Mooy was average as **** against Peru. Sat far too deep and had no influence on the game with the ball. Alot of sideways passing. Not alot of quick switching or balls up the middle. Mooy doesn't screen well and doesn't win back much ball so we may aswell have played another screening mid. We had Leckie Kruse and Juric playing as 3 hold up strikers all coming back towards the ball and laying it off. We have no ability to get in behind when Rogic isn't involved.
Juric is crap, can't believe he is the best Australian striker in the world right now. Couldn't even hold up the ball well let alone make dangerous runs or atleast open space for Leckie and Kruse.
Why the **** we brought on Irvine who to me looks like a s**t box to box midfielder with no passing ability when we had Luongo on the bench is a mystery. Arzani took more shots on goal than Juric and Kruse combined, the others didn't even want too.
We have s**t players, what's the point setting us up to maybe get lucky and win 1-0? I'd rather see us entertain and have a go even if we conceded goals. We achieved absolutely nothing at this world cup. Playing with 10 men behind the ball isn't something any manager couldn't do an our possession was a waste of time.
I thought Mooy was average as **** against Peru. Sat far too deep and had no influence on the game with the ball. Alot of sideways passing. Not alot of quick switching or balls up the middle. Mooy doesn't screen well and doesn't win back much ball so we may aswell have played another screening mid. We had Leckie Kruse and Juric playing as 3 hold up strikers all coming back towards the ball and laying it off. We have no ability to get in behind when Rogic isn't involved.
Juric is crap, can't believe he is the best Australian striker in the world right now. Couldn't even hold up the ball well let alone make dangerous runs or atleast open space for Leckie and Kruse.
Why the **** we brought on Irvine who to me looks like a s**t box to box midfielder with no passing ability when we had Luongo on the bench is a mystery. Arzani took more shots on goal than Juric and Kruse combined, the others didn't even want too.
Tulip
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Insanity
Sweden beat Mexico 3-0, and South Korea beat Germany 2-0 in injury time to send Mexico through anyway.
Sweden beat Mexico 3-0, and South Korea beat Germany 2-0 in injury time to send Mexico through anyway.
Germany out is big .
The old NSL had to go . For lots of reasons but the downside of the new A League was no pathway . All the juniors that were coming through the youth teams ( like Viduka etc) of the NSL clubs had no way of progressing because the Aleague started with no youth teams at all . I still believe we are a generation or 2 away from seeing if our Dutch love affair with coaching will bear any fruit . In some ways the " golden generation " has become a millstone around our collective necks .
