Opinion Non-Crows AFL 10

[AFC979810]

Seriously, that was over 16 years ago.

We have moved on well since then. If that was today, Hall would be out for a season.

Times have changed indeed.

 

[Pea Nut]

Times have changed indeed.

Clearly not for the better.

 

[Scorpus]

If you think mean words are more harmful than physical violence, then you clearly don’t.

About 10x as many people kill themselves each year vs die from homicide

 

[Slippery Pete]

About 10x as many people kill themselves each year vs die from homicide

So let’s just be clear here: you think slurs on a football field should attract harsher penalties than say, punching someone out Barry Hall-style.

 

[jackster83]

About 10x as many people kill themselves each year vs die from homicide

People's mental health is fair game though.

You can tell someone to go kill themself and not cop any repercussions.

Not that I agree with it, but society doesn't give a shit about it.

 

[AFC979810]

Yes more, so it'll stop happening. Just like punches off the ball should be more as well. All off ball incidents should be getting way more games bigger fines than any of these in the action, ball is in play tackle or bump suspensions

Start giving out half a season bans or full season bans, or something like half your match payment for 2 years goes to a fund to help a charity.

Jeez Louise. Half a season ban or a full season ban for a heat of the moment slip of the tongue.

The guy made a comment that only one player actually heard. He apologized to that player immediately and you want him to potentially miss an entire season?!?!

I think the Suns making him do an ISIS style hostage video where he had to apologize to all the groups who might be offended (even though they don't know what he said) should have been all the punishment he needed.

About 10x as many people kill themselves each year vs die from homicide

And how many of them are due to mean words?

 

[FullyBigKPro]

PAP's getting desperate rushing Aliir back in... Backing in their medical team no doubt

Injury-hit Power make four changes for Cats clash

Ken Hinkley is forced to re-shape his side for the trip to Geelong

www.afl.com.au

 

[Danger in Texas]

About 10x as many people kill themselves each year vs die from homicide

This is exactly why no AFL player has come out yet, tbh

 

[AFC979810]

Old Jeremy Finlayson

11

Jeremy Finlayson

Age

28

Ht

197cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.5

3star

K

9.9

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.4

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.0

1star

K

7.0

3star

HB

0.0

1star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

18.4

5star

K

12.6

5star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.0

1star

was hoping to ease back in uneventful return to AFL footy this weekend. Can bet you he wont be sending Tom Powell a Christmas card.

 

[Scorpus]

So let’s just be clear here: you think slurs on a football field should attract harsher penalties than say, punching someone out Barry Hall-style.

No. I think the effects of "mean words" are much more serious than you made it out to be, and so seemingly harsh penalties are fair, as they are for serious assault too.

People's mental health is fair game though.

You can tell someone to go kill themself and not cop any repercussions.

Not that I agree with it, but society doesn't give a s**t about it.

If you tell a co-worker to kill themselves I think you'll find yourself in hot water

And how many of them are due to mean words?

Not sure. It's a contributing factor, just like punching someone can be a contributing factor to homicide. Or maybe they're just injured (mentally or physically) and recover.

A culture of homophobia and intolerance does have a serious impact on the mental health of gay people, which allowing homophobic slurs perpetuates. LGBTQ people have a high rate of suicidal thoughts and suicide attempts.

Jeez Louise. Half a season ban or a full season ban for a heat of the moment slip of the tongue.

It's extremely easy to not use a slur

 

[Slippery Pete]

No. I think the effects of "mean words" are much more serious than you made it out to be,

Words can hurt, for sure, but let’s not pretend this is why the player has been suspended.

You could call someone a fat see you next Tuesday (thanks Kirky) and absolutely nothing would happen to you. Despite the fact this could also have an impact on someone’s mental health.

Should those sort of slurs be policed too?

 

[jackster83]

Words can hurt, for sure, but let’s not pretend this is why the player has been suspended.

You could call someone a fat see you next Tuesday (thanks Kirky) and absolutely nothing would happen to you. Despite the fact this could also have an impact on someone’s mental health.

Should those sort of slurs be policed too?

Did Zorko get suspended for his remarks to Petty, that obviously had an impact on his mental health?

Or that follow up from that other Lions player to him only a couple of weeks ago?

Mental health is still fair game.

 

[Scorpus]

Words can hurt, for sure, but let’s not pretend this is why the player has been suspended.

You could call someone a fat see you next Tuesday (thanks Kirky) and absolutely nothing would happen to you. Despite the fact this could also have an impact on someone’s mental health.

Should those sort of slurs be policed too?

In most workplaces if you called a co-worker a fat campaigner in a derogatory way you'd face some sort of discipline

I'd think the circumstances around weight vs sexuality would factor into the punishment. For example, weight can be adjusted through lifestyle, whereas sexual orientation cannot. And the historic and current vilification of some sexualities is much more severe than vilification related to weight

 

[Geoffa32]

Clearly not for the better.

Depends on your perspective.

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[cmndstab]

Words can hurt, for sure, but let’s not pretend this is why the player has been suspended.

You could call someone a fat see you next Tuesday (thanks Kirky) and absolutely nothing would happen to you. Despite the fact this could also have an impact on someone’s mental health.

Should those sort of slurs be policed too?

There is a difference between a slur and an insult. Both do relatively minor harm in isolation, but slurs help to perpetuate a culture of discrimination which, in the case of things like homophobia or racism, has caused extreme harm historically and will continue to do so if we don't take a hard line stance against it.

It's also super easy not to say slurs. They don't just "slip out" unless it's something you say regularly behind closed doors. I used to say slurs as well, 15-20 years ago. Then at one point I stopped to reflect on what I was doing, and made some steps to stop doing it. Took a while to break the habit, but it's not like it was difficult.

To the extent that penalties have existed in the past, they have clearly not worked to prevent it. So the penalties should be harsher.


Just to look specifically at your example, such a comment would probably be considered fatphobic. That's certainly problematic in its own right, but has a much less violent and ugly history than homophobia.

 

[AFC979810]

Words can hurt, for sure, but let’s not pretend this is why the player has been suspended.

You could call someone a fat see you next Tuesday (thanks Kirky) and absolutely nothing would happen to you. Despite the fact this could also have an impact on someone’s mental health.

Should those sort of slurs be policed too?

What about Noah Answorth bullying Harrison Petty on the football field? We accept that behavior when teen suicide rates are so high? Shame on us. 12 game ban.

Not sure. It's a contributing factor, just like punching someone can be a contributing factor to homicide. Or maybe they're just injured (mentally or physically) and recover.

A culture of homophobia and intolerance does have a serious impact on the mental health of gay people, which allowing homophobic slurs perpetuates. LGBTQ people have a high rate of suicidal thoughts and suicide attempts.

I am sure it does. And sure - it was a bad thing to say. He knew he made a mistake and apologized.

A 5 game is massively excessive IMO - when all of the people he has to apologize to don't even know what he said.

It's extremely easy to not use a slur

It is. What was the slur though? Shouldn't we at least know so that he can apologize to the right group?

 

[Scorpus]

What about Noah Answorth bullying Harrison Petty on the football field? We accept that behavior when teen suicide rates are so high? Shame on us. 12 game ban.

Did anyone accept that behaviour? Answerth was slammed when he did it, and Brisbane forced Zorko to apologize the first time it happened.

Was that not enough accountability? Maybe it wasn't. I don't think that's a reason to reduce the penalty in the event of homophobic slurs.

It is. What was the slur though? Shouldn't we at least know so that he can apologize to the right group?

Why would we need to know what it is, other than it's homophobic? Surely that tells you which group he should be apologizing to.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Mental health is still fair game.

And it should be.

This opinion is going to offend a lot of people here, of course, but they are just words.

The reason you can’t (or shouldn’t) police spoken words on a football field is that there is no limiting principle to that concept.

So you punish some slurs and leave others alone? Who gets to decide that?

There has been some egregious, disgusting things said on football fields over the years. One of the worst I’ve ever seen was what Will Minson said to Kane Cornes.

But you didn’t need to suspend him — he paid dearly for it in the court of public opinion. As he should have.

An AFL-imposed five game suspension for something, anything, a player said on a football field is laughable.

 

[Pea Nut]

Depends on your perspective.

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The perspective of someone who thinks logically and clearly.

 

[GreyCrow]

Times have changed indeed.

All those flags we have won since then

 

[Geoffa32]

The perspective of someone who thinks logically and clearly.

You work in an environment where such slurs go unpunished and are Gay, would you tell your workmates about your sexuality?


Would you feel comfortable working there?


Easy for hetro people to say "just words".


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[Coopers]

This is exactly why no AFL player has come out yet, tbh

There's probably a few really religous players that would make the whole thing a mess.

I have a conspiracy theory that the AFL would probably try to convince the player not to come out, just to avoid the problem.

 

[cmndstab]

And it should be.

This opinion is going to offend a lot of people here, of course, but they are just words.

The reason you can’t (or shouldn’t) police spoken words on a football field is that there is no limiting principle to that concept.

So you punish some slurs and leave others alone? Who gets to decide that?

This is a silly argument. Of course there is a limiting principle - the league can decide, informed by both expert opinions and also just the general temperature of the public, where the lines are.

Most workplaces have a set of rules around what constitutes harassment. I can go into my workplace and call a colleague an idiot and probably not face any repercussions. If I use a racial slur, I almost certainly will. Clearly there is a line somewhere. Who decides that line? My workplace, mostly. And if I think the line is inappropriate, I can go through various channels to challenge it.

The AFL can set whatever standards it chooses. Make no mistake about it, the AFL is a business first and foremost. They will choose the line that they feel situates them most favourably in the eyes of their customers.

 

[Pea Nut]

You work in an environment where such slurs go unpunished and are Gay, would you tell your workmates about your sexuality?


Would you feel comfortable working there?


Easy for hetro people to say "just words".


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[kirky]

And it should be.

This opinion is going to offend a lot of people here, of course, but they are just words.

Every time you post you offend someone . It is in your nature.