Speculation Liam Baker

[Jeremias]

Time for some house cleaning.

1) Do not drag discussions or individual posts over here from other threads or boards.

Feel free to respond to those posts wherever they were posted, if you so choose.

2) Enough with the personal attacks. It’s a long season and this one may go the distance, so if you want to remain a part of the discussion, do it respectfully.

We will use thread bans and infractions if necessary.

 

[stallon]

He is worth more than Shultz… and that sets the value.

I hope you are comparing Schultz's ability off last year, not this year.
He was a very good player the last couple of years, one of the best half forwards in the comp. Kicked 63 goals in his last 2 seasons at Freo. I know as a Victorian you wouldnt know much about Schultz before his trade, but he was at least very comparable in quality to Baker.
Schultz was in contract too, Baker is not, thatll basically even it out to make them worth roughly the same.
A lot of the media and fans called the Schultz trade overs, so it could be argued that a pick expected to be 17-18 areas would also be overs for Baker.

 

[nut]

I hope you are comparing Schultz's ability off last year, not this year.
He was a very good player the last couple of years, one of the best half forwards in the comp. Kicked 63 goals in his last 2 seasons at Freo. I know as a Victorian you wouldnt know much about Schultz before his trade, but he was at least very comparable in quality to Baker.
Schultz was in contract too, Baker is not, thatll basically even it out to make them worth roughly the same.
A lot of the media and fans called the Schultz trade overs, so it could be argued that a pick expected to be 17-18 areas would also be overs for Baker.

Oh yes the media … like they had anything to do with the Shultz trade… both Collingwood and Freo worked out exactly his value. It’s called a trade for reason… !!!
Trades traditionally use past trades as a bench mark.

 

[stallon]

Oh yes the media … like they had anything to do with the Shultz trade… both Collingwood and Freo worked out exactly his value. It’s called a trade for reason… !!!
Trades traditionally use past trades as a bench mark.

Im using media and fans as somewhat of a judge to whether the trade was fair, there isnt anything else to go off. Very few trades are completely even, teams have to compromise to work with what both clubs have in terms of tradable assets, it was widely regarded that the Schultz trade had the Pies paying slight overs.

Regardless, you didnt read the rest of my comment which was the main point of what I was saying. Schultz roughly similar value to baker, but hes out of contract, so worth slightly less than what Schultz was worth.
Hope that helps!

 

[WilloTree]

Oh yes the media … like they had anything to do with the Shultz trade… both Collingwood and Freo worked out exactly his value. It’s called a trade for reason… !!!
Trades traditionally use past trades as a bench mark.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Schultz was contracted.

 

[tiger_tough]

In that trade you don't get #20, you get #17 and a future second.

Yeah I know, but you said the trade values him @ pick 20.

 

[Taylor]

Yeah I know, but you said the trade values him @ pick 20.

And if the trade is:

#17 plus F2 for Baker and F3

It values Baker at #15 based off current ladder positions.

 

[tiger_tough]

And if the trade is:

#17 plus F2 for Baker and F3

It values Baker at #15 based off current ladder positions.

Cool. Won't happen.

 

[THE_GUN]

I’ll let you Richmond supporters figure out which position he is best in. Once you guys agree can you let the rest of us know.



If he’s a midfielder he wouldn’t be playing in front of Fyfe, Young, Brayshaw, Serong and Johnson smoked him on the weekend. No team pays their 2nd string midfielders even $800k. Maybe he’d be in front of JOM and we pay him about $500k and he cost a 2nd rounder.

Cool he is sh!t we can keep him

End thread

 

[THE_GUN]

You have every right to your opinion on what he is worth in a trade... but I'm not convinced you fully understand how the trade system works (you're not the only one on these boards though).

• Yes i do have the right to my opinion on his value as you do and my opinion is a pick*10-#15
• You are not convinced thats upto you and i cant , wont change that and dont feel the need to
• Me not Knowing how the trade system works ? Well maybe you explain to me how it works going on the Adam Saad/CCJ trades

 

[THE_GUN]

If the Tigers arent willing to facilitate a trade that gets Baker where he wants to go, hes hardly going to stay there, he may as well take his chances in the PSD and hope he gets through to the Eagles pick.

Worst case for Baker is a team he doesnt want to play for picks him up, fully knowing he doesnt want to be there, with him setting his price at $1mil+ for a 1 year deal, and hoping that none of the Vic clubs take him before West Coast have a chance. Once he gets to west coast on 1mil+ they can sort something out to even out a 5 year deal or whatever they wanna do.
If hes coming home, then hes coming home, you dont get to play hard ball with clubs when you have 0 leverage.

Yes I know clubs dont burn other clubs, but the Tigers are a part to this too lol, they cant go demanding overs, that would be them trying to burn the clubs chasing Baker. If Baker is as respected and liked as you make out, then they will let him go for fair compensation considering the circumstances, a late first or early second rounder

We are back to the delusional school boy arguments

On 1 hand you say why should Baker sign a 1 year deal at Richmond and leave as a free agent the next year
Then you say he can go PSD on a 1 year deal and North, Hawks or even Richmond can take him

You club will pay the required pick mate

 

[Tugga27]

He is worth more than Shultz… and that sets the value.

Of course it doesn't.
Like Westcoast05 said, each trade is different.

WC got unders for Willie Rioli as he was uncontracted.
Sydney gave pick 43 for Brodie Grundy because it was a salary dump.

Blake Acres who was pretty much the same age as Baker went to Carlton for a future 3rd
rounder, which I don't think was ever used.

Did that set the market?

It's really naive to just look at one trade and say "the market has been set".

 

[Tugga27]

I’ll let you Richmond supporters figure out which position he is best in. Once you guys agree can you let the rest of us know.



If he’s a midfielder he wouldn’t be playing in front of Fyfe, Young, Brayshaw, Serong and Johnson smoked him on the weekend. No team pays their 2nd string midfielders even $800k. Maybe he’d be in front of JOM and we pay him about $500k and he cost a 2nd rounder.

TBF, with the new CBA coming in, he will be on a lot more than $500 000.

 

[Tugga27]

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Schultz was contracted.

Apparently, it doesn't matter........

 

[stallon]

We are back to the delusional school boy arguments

On 1 hand you say why should Baker sign a 1 year deal at Richmond and leave as a free agent the next year
Then you say he can go PSD on a 1 year deal and North, Hawks or even Richmond can take him

You club will pay the required pick mate

LOL. The 1mil+ 1 year price tag is to deter other clubs picking him up, not because he might be happy to stay in Vic for 1 more year.
The idea is North, Hawks and Richmond dont waste their time paying a guy over a mil when he doesnt want to be there. You think theyll get their moneys worth? Highly unlikely.
The Tigers will take a second rounder before they take nothing, not like the eagles second pick is outrageously unfair, its likely very close to true value, basically nitpicking over a few spots in the draft.
You said Baker will fetch Freos best first rounder instead of their worst because its basically nitpicking over a few picks before didnt you? Works both ways.

You clearly dont understand how the draft works lmao, players have the power, if they want to get somewhere, itll happen

 

[Taylor]

Well maybe you explain to me how it works going on the Adam Saad

Adam Saad looks like the sort of trade Carlton do to get the player they want. Saad for #8 in a draft that pushed the next pick they had out to #37 and then a group of picks exchanged to balance that.

The next season Carlton also traded pick #6 for Cerra in a similarly impacted draft where the side that finished 6th last had a second pick at the draft at #27

Carlton bought Zac Williams and George Hewett too. That's why nearly half their list are players who were from somewhere else.

They can't trust their drafting.

Freo's drafting is fine.

 

[THE_GUN]

LOL. The 1mil+ 1 year price tag is to deter other clubs picking him up, not because he might be happy to stay in Vic for 1 more year.
The idea is North, Hawks and Richmond dont waste their time paying a guy over a mil when he doesnt want to be there. You think theyll get their moneys worth? Highly unlikely.
The Tigers will take a second rounder before they take nothing, not like the eagles second pick is outrageously unfair, its likely very close to true value, basically nitpicking over a few spots in the draft.
You said Baker will fetch Freos best first rounder instead of their worst because its basically nitpicking over a few picks before didnt you? Works both ways.

You clearly dont understand how the draft works lmao, players have the power, if they want to get somewhere, itll happen

I offered you a bet on your claim about a 2nd rounder
Richmond will absolutely get fair value from west coast and it could be a 2nd rounder but with other attachments like a F2 thrown in but it wont be for 1 pick lesser value than a west coast 2nd rounder

Matt Clarke & Liam Baker dont operate that way mate

 

[MisterMarcus]

Why do Richmond fans keep bringing up CCJ?

Almost everyone acknowledges North massively overpaid for him - I seriously doubt that's any sort of benchmark to base Baker's worth off.....

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I hope you are comparing Schultz's ability off last year, not this year.
He was a very good player the last couple of years, one of the best half forwards in the comp. Kicked 63 goals in his last 2 seasons at Freo. I know as a Victorian you wouldnt know much about Schultz before his trade, but he was at least very comparable in quality to Baker.
Schultz was in contract too, Baker is not, thatll basically even it out to make them worth roughly the same.
A lot of the media and fans called the Schultz trade overs, so it could be argued that a pick expected to be 17-18 areas would also be overs for Baker.

I definitely think Tigers fans are leaning way to heavily on Schultz's performance this year when considering the value. Kicked over 30 goals two years in a row and provided absolutely elite pressure and was 25 / 26 while being contracted. While it was a boring trade period, the consensus was Pies got the best player of the period to move. Baker may be a better player but any difference is made up in that strength of bargaining where Freo ALWAYS extract overs on contracted players.

It's all huff and puff in here for the next 5 months anyway, I expect he'll leave, I expect he'll go to Freo for reasons already stated and I expect it will be done with basically no fuss for one of our later two 1sts as one of the first trades of the period.

The ironic thing is most agree on his value from both sides, around 15 (10% either way is whatever) but as we need to do in these threads, need to argue the minutiae of late vs middle 1st

 

[THE_GUN]

Adam Saad looks like the sort of trade Carlton do to get the player they want. Saad for #8 in a draft that pushed the next pick they had out to #37 and then a group of picks exchanged to balance that.

The next season Carlton also traded pick #6 for Cerra in a similarly impacted draft where the side that finished 6th last had a second pick at the draft at #27

Carlton bought Zac Williams and George Hewett too. That's why nearly half their list are players who were from somewhere else.

They can't trust their drafting.

Freo's drafting is fine.

Ok so teams like Carlton paid #8 for Saad we cant trust them
Nort paid #19 +++ for CCJ north are crazy

But others are ok , Cool got it

Really cannot see how you guys just dont get it, Liam Baker will not screw Richmond and will do exactly what CCj did and instruct his manager that he will want to make sure his club is compensated and will commit only if the manager tells him the 'Club' will get this done

This is what loyal club leaders do as their club and relationships will be for ever due to multiple premierships

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Why do Richmond fans keep bringing up CCJ?

Almost everyone acknowledges North massively overpaid for him - I seriously doubt that's any sort of benchmark to base Baker's worth off.....

I'd bring it up if I was them, probably most recent comparative for them, but it's the rest of the comps problem that North list management is the worst the comps ever seen

 

[THE_GUN]

The ironic thing is most agree on his value from both sides, around 15 (10% either way is whatever) but as we need to do in these threads, need to argue the minutiae of late vs middle 1st

100%

But you forgot the PSD bit as the herbs and spices in the post
it just adds that little' Bit More'

 

[THE_GUN]

Why do Richmond fans keep bringing up CCJ?

Almost everyone acknowledges North massively overpaid for him - I seriously doubt that's any sort of benchmark to base Baker's worth off.....

Why its almost an exact same scenario and best example

• Out of contract player
• Selected a club the chased him and convinced him to move whilst his club had a contract for him

*North were dead last with PSD pick #1 so the 'Threat was real"
* North still traded what was considered at the time fair value

Almost exact same scenario and why wouldnt it be used

 

[bc27]

would there be a world where the compensation we could receive from a Dan Rioli trade from Gold Coast be attached to a baker trade to west coast and collect west coasts first round pick this year?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

100%

But you forgot the PSD bit as the herbs and spices in the post
it just adds that little' Bit More'

PSD threat is the same as pretending Richmond have any leverage or control on an out of contract player IMO. Neither are going to be a thing because there are no Adelaides in the potential parties and there is respect between everyone. I'd really like it to be done day 1 assuming it's a thing, that would be the ultimate sign of respect for Baker

 

[stallon]

would there be a world where the compensation we could receive from a Dan Rioli trade from Gold Coast be attached to a baker trade to west coast and collect west coasts first round pick this year?

Would have to be some serious overpayment by Gold Coast for Rioli to make that work. Would not take GCs current pick 8 + Baker for our first pick(likely 3 or 4)