Autopsy Round 10, 2024: St.Kilda v Fremantle

[Saint Watto]

Saw this on a Saints Facebook page and its too funny not to share, now that's a rant


We are ******* s**t!
We need to kick goals to win games of football. Why the heck are we so s*t at scoring??? Zero forward craft. We are the shittest team to watch in the league. Shittest game plan, most pathetic offense, over hand balling, absolute ****** trash! Pox ridden ******* dog s**t

Jeepers........I'm glad said poster didn't hold back !!!!!!

Tell us what you really think !!!!!



I'm not on Facebook.......but I've been told at times the Saints Facebook page..... its like a viper pit.

People get extremely worked up and quite irrational...........did I say unhinged????

 

[sauce_head]

He wasn't setting the world on fire before, but there is a clear drop off after the Richmond game (or when the fixture got really tight with the consecutive short breaks and the consecutive interstate trips).

Agree with all of that. I suppose we don’t really need to get too upset about it if the potential is still there. Just needs to work out how to work himself into the game I suppose.

 

[gringo2011]

Bassat said Ratten was moved on because the list was capable of more.

We've improved the list since then (I think so, anyway) and now apparently the reason we're sh*t is because the list is no good.

Even Joey and King on first crack are full of excuses for us, when King had us as potentially top 4 at the start of the year.

Our list needs to improve, but right now, the coaches are failing us. Players are going backwards. Our cohesion as a team is going backwards.

I'm not buying the bulls*t I'm being fed.

I was keen on pissing Ratts off because we looked like we were going nowhere with the list build and he wasn't pushing elite standards even. I thought Ratts maxed out getting us into finals but we didn't have the list. Lethlean was a disaster for the list, he set us on a top-up at all costs plan and stuffed the timing. Real arse-about stuff.

The main thing that we've done well under Lyon is invest in the foundations of the club which is the football department. If that stuff isn't right nothing you do is going to move you forward. We were looking for a destination without a map before. Now we have a crusty old pirate drawing one from memory but at least he's employed a crew for his ship.

 

[Sully111]

I was keen on pissing Ratts off because we looked like we were going nowhere with the list build and he wasn't pushing elite standards even. I thought Ratts maxed out getting us into finals but we didn't have the list. Lethlean was a disaster for the list, he set us on a top-up at all costs plan and stuffed the timing. Real arse-about stuff.

The main thing that we've done well under Lyon is invest in the foundations of the club which is the football department. If that stuff isn't right nothing you do is going to move you forward. We were looking for a destination without a map before. Now we have a crusty old pirate drawing one from memory but at least he's employed a crew for his ship.

How do you rate Harvey and Goddard's performance so far?

 

[CaptainRisky]

Jeepers........I'm glad said poster didn't hold back !!!!!!

Tell us what you really think !!!!!



I'm not on Facebook.......but I've been told at times the Saints Facebook page..... its like a viper pit.

People get extremely worked up and quite irrational...........did I say unhinged????

Yeah they are far worse than people on here , i just read the posts for a laugh

 

[The Punter]

I was keen on pissing Ratts off because we looked like we were going nowhere with the list build and he wasn't pushing elite standards even. I thought Ratts maxed out getting us into finals but we didn't have the list. Lethlean was a disaster for the list, he set us on a top-up at all costs plan and stuffed the timing. Real arse-about stuff.

The main thing that we've done well under Lyon is invest in the foundations of the club which is the football department. If that stuff isn't right nothing you do is going to move you forward. We were looking for a destination without a map before. Now we have a crusty old pirate drawing one from memory but at least he's employed a crew for his ship.

And there is a chance that the current malaise is a unavoidable stage related to that standard setting.

No one is putting a line through kids like Collard and Phillipou despite us effectively playing two short on the weekend because of them. We just need to grit our teeth and take the good with the bad.

The first time RL was coach, there was a penny-dropping moment around the midway mark of season 2. Don't be surprised if there is another one soon. Having said that, the last quarter on the weekend in particular was execrable.

 

[gringo2011]

Bassat fed supporters a load of bull- he wanted quick fixes and presumed somehow Lyon was going to make it like to was in 2010. Rebuilds are only an excuse for failure.

We all guessed that we were rebuilding on the fly. I think the club realised that the patch job that we'd done was another stuff up and needed to build a path forward. Ratts wasn't the guy that could be the architect of a system build even though he was a solid match day coach.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

In my opinion, the weirdest thing Ross said about Pou was not about him being happy to play in the VFL.

It was about him being BOG for Sandy the week before. Said it at the presser during the week and repeated it pre match.

Certainly his VFL performance was better than his 2024 AFL performances however it gave the impression that he ripped it up. And that’s not how I viewed that game.

 

[malevu]

So the fact that nearly all the media chatter about it has been negative (why would a young player want to go to the VFL) was just an accident?

Hes either made an error in judgement or hes trying to send a weird message.

Either way, to me, thats a convo between player and coach that shouldnt be publically relayed OR its a lie thats blown up in his face. Either way, its a poor outcome.

A big over reaction. That's not how I heard it or interpreted it all. From memory I think Lyon said Pou was happy to play twos again. I read that as meaning he was okay if they thought he needed another game at Sandy, not meaning he wanted to play there. I actually took it as a complement to Pou that he was okay with whatever the coaches thought best.

Obviously some people hear what they want to hear depending on their personal agenda.

 

[malevu]

We all guessed that we were rebuilding on the fly. I think the club realised that the patch job that we'd done was another stuff up and needed to build a path forward. Ratts wasn't the guy that could be the architect of a system build even though he was a solid match day coach.

There's an art to rebuilding on the fly which has been mastered by Geelong and Sydney. It's more miss than hit for most clubs. I don't think it's in the Saints handbook.

 

[phantom13]

A big over reaction. That's not how I heard it or interpreted it all. From memory I think Lyon said Pou was happy to play twos again. I read that as meaning he was okay if they thought he needed another game at Sandy, not meaning he wanted to play there. I actually took it as a complement to Pou that he was okay with whatever the coaches thought best.

Obviously some people hear what they want to hear depending on their personal agenda.

Including pretty much everyone in the media who commented on it.

I dont hate Ross so can we not make this a "youll look for any excuse" thing. My read of it was the same as a number of media pundits so at the very least its not just something ive made up here.

 

[Sully111]

In my opinion, the weirdest thing Ross said about Pou was not about him being happy to play in the VFL.

It was about him being BOG for Sandy the week before. Said it at the presser during the week and repeated it pre match.

Certainly his VFL performance was better than his 2024 AFL performances however it gave the impression that he ripped it up. And that’s not how I viewed that game.

I feel like it's in response to what Pou's manager said.

 

[littlecreatures]

Bassat said Ratten was moved on because the list was capable of more.

We've improved the list since then (I think so, anyway) and now apparently the reason we're sh*t is because the list is no good.

Even Joey and King on first crack are full of excuses for us, when King had us as potentially top 4 at the start of the year.

Our list needs to improve, but right now, the coaches are failing us. Players are going backwards. Our cohesion as a team is going backwards.

I'm not buying the bulls*t I'm being fed.

Without looking back over Bassat’s exact comments, and I could be wrong here too, I wonder whether this is also around how much Rat’s was going to get out of the list over the long term, rather than here and now.

Rat wasn’t going to be a good fit for a club which needed a stronger day-to-day programme and standards, which would impede development over the long term.

I’m still not 100% Ross is the answer either, nor was Roos at Dees either prior to their flag, but he may very well be a step closer. There’s a bit to play out this year and next.

 

[True Believer]

Including pretty much everyone in the media who commented on it.

My read of it was the same as a number of media pundits so at the very least its not just something ive made up here.

Yeah but as they do every week, the media are looking for filler for a few days until there's actual football stuff to start reporting on again once team selections for the next round start to drop..........

 

[my name was taken]

JFC, sure his one year where an offense was top 4 (but we finished first) is definitely the sign hes an offence first coach.

Calm down, You brought up the 2009 with hyperbolic statement.

 

[phantom13]

Calm down, You brought up the 2009 with hyperbolic statement.

Ahhh wrong, I didn’t bring up 09. My original post was in response to 2010.

Someone else brought up 09 and I responded noting it’s the anomoly for Ross led teams whilst also noting our attack was still lower than our ladder position.

In any event everyone else moved past it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

There's an art to rebuilding on the fly which has been mastered by Geelong and Sydney. It's more miss than hit for most clubs. I don't think it's in the Saints handbook.

Geelong have still got players they took in the 2006 draft.
Hell they have players WE took in the 2007 draft.

If you aren't constantly shoving players out the door, you aren't constantly having to replace them.

Notable Ins vs Outs.
How did Richo have a chance when we lost 25 good best 22 players, and struggled to find 7?

2009: Peake / Ball , Hudghton.
2010: -- / King
2011: Ross, Webster / Gardiner, Baker.
2012: Roberton, Hickey / Goddard, Peake, Gram
2013: Longer, Bruce, Billings , Dunstan, Acres, Savage / DalSanto , McEvoy. Blake , Milne , Koschitski
2014: Membrey , Sinclair / Gwilt , Stanley, Hayes , Jones
2015: Carlilse Gresham / Schneider, Ray
2016: Steele, Stevens , Brown, Battle, Marshall, Carlilse / Fisher
2017: Clark / Dempster, Riewoldt, Montagna.
2018: King, Wilkie / Hickey , Stevens, Gilbert
2019: Hill, Howard, Jones , Butler / Armitage , Longer , Acres Steven
2020: Crouch, Higgins, Wood / Brown, Savage
2021: Wanganeen-Milera Owens, Windhager / Roberton , Dunstan Carlisle,
2022: Philipou / Geary
2023 : Wilson / Gresham, Billings

 

[puntking]

Bassat said Ratten was moved on because the list was capable of more.

We've improved the list since then (I think so, anyway) and now apparently the reason we're sh*t is because the list is no good.

Even Joey and King on first crack are full of excuses for us, when King had us as potentially top 4 at the start of the year.

Our list needs to improve, but right now, the coaches are failing us. Players are going backwards. Our cohesion as a team is going backwards.

I'm not buying the bulls*t I'm being fed.

He was trying to be nice he was let go because of poor standards brought up from the review

 

[stfan]

After sleeping on last night’s result, all I will say is that Ross isn’t the undisputed reason we are playing the way we are - but he isn’t immune to criticism.

We are not a good football team at the moment, and playing finals last year has muddied the waters for most fans. We overachieved last year, and with such an even competition, the slightest bit of regression will see teams finish in the bottom five.

As has been mentioned before, I do see Ross being the Paul Roos at Melbourne-type figure to fix this club and put it on the right track. Is he the bloke who wins us a flag? Unlikely, in my opinion. However, whoever takes over will have the best opportunity to compete over the long term.

Read the Herald Sun article from Mark Robinson this week and even watch the presser from last night. Ross and the rest of the major decision makers at the club know exactly where we are and know what needs to be done to make us a good team. The past decade has seen us believe we aren’t far off a flag, but we aren’t close at the moment. Just look at the depth running around in clubs in flag contention, it’s night and day compared to us. We will hit the draft hard and we will explore free agency to fix our biggest problem - our midfield. Will it take five years? Will it take 18 months? Who knows, but the club knows it won’t happen this season. It hurts for us as fans to acknowledge that, but we need to persist.

While I agree with what you say, it all seems to hang on landing gun free agent mids. And that is just extremely unlikely to happen unfortunately.


While yes we will keep hitting the draft, that looks to be mainly with ordinary picks.


We also still don't look likely to get the legup of gun father sons that day the Pies and Dogs are blessed with.


Gold Coast have a never ending stream of very good academy picks.


North have had many low picks, though have selected too many kids.

If we trade for a gun, then we lose our early picks.

So it all seems to hang mainly on gaining gun FAs and that seems to be a Hail Mary strategy.

 

[Sully111]

He was trying to be nice he was let go because of poor standards brought up from the review

That makes no sense to me at all.

How is a president saying a reason the coach is being sacked is because he's unable to get the best out of the list, being nice?

I'm not saying standards weren't a factor in the decision, but he clearly said he believed the list was capable of better. I absolutely believe that's what he thought.

 

[gringo2011]

How do you rate Harvey and Goddard's performance so far?

I wouldn't know because I'm not inside the club but Harves has been at top clubs as an assistant over a long period. He must have some ability. That said I was critical of the appointment because it was out of line with all other appointments which seemed to be best available.

 

[stfan]

But isn't all that is proved is he's a very capable player at VFL level but out of his depth at AFL level?

So your thesis is to keep playing him in the seniors even if he is no good, just because he thinks he is good?

Crazy logic there.

 

[gringo2011]

And there is a chance that the current malaise is a unavoidable stage related to that standard setting.

No one is putting a line through kids like Collard and Phillipou despite us effectively playing two short on the weekend because of them. We just need to grit our teeth and take the good with the bad.

The first time RL was coach, there was a penny-dropping moment around the midway mark of season 2. Don't be surprised if there is another one soon. Having said that, the last quarter on the weekend in particular was execrable.

The malaise is a result of injury to the midfield and eating away at our depth. Losing mids and small forwards while the kids have gone backwards. We then lost confidence and competitiveness. I hope we stay down now and load up in the draft.

To save us from being decimated we are locking down and. making the Saints the worst team to watch in footy. Ideal we get a few players back and look attractive and competitive without winning many more games.

 

[gringo2011]

There's an art to rebuilding on the fly which has been mastered by Geelong and Sydney. It's more miss than hit for most clubs. I don't think it's in the Saints handbook.

It should be easy to formulate from analysing what those clubs did. A huge part of both is exceptional talent identification, development and leadership. Sydney with a huge academy leg up but Geelong have been incredible at finding players outside the regular pathway and knowing who to cut and who to persist with.

 

[gringo2011]

Geelong have still got players they took in the 2006 draft.
Hell they have players WE took in the 2007 draft.

If you aren't constantly shoving players out the door, you aren't constantly having to replace them.

Notable Ins vs Outs.
How did Richo have a chance when we lost 25 good best 22 players, and struggled to find 7?

2009: Peake / Ball , Hudghton.
2010: -- / King
2011: Ross, Webster / Gardiner, Baker.
2012: Roberton, Hickey / Goddard, Peake, Gram
2013: Longer, Bruce, Billings , Dunstan, Acres, Savage / DalSanto , McEvoy. Blake , Milne , Koschitski
2014: Membrey , Sinclair / Gwilt , Stanley, Hayes , Jones
2015: Carlilse Gresham / Schneider, Ray
2016: Steele, Stevens , Brown, Battle, Marshall, Carlilse / Fisher
2017: Clark / Dempster, Riewoldt, Montagna.
2018: King, Wilkie / Hickey , Stevens, Gilbert
2019: Hill, Howard, Jones , Butler / Armitage , Longer , Acres Steven
2020: Crouch, Higgins, Wood / Brown, Savage
2021: Wanganeen-Milera Owens, Windhager / Roberton , Dunstan Carlisle,
2022: Philipou / Geary
2023 : Wilson / Gresham, Billings

Lethers got rid of a layer of good ordinary middlers and used a lot of draft capital to replace them with a very similar level of players. We really had zero plan or direction in that period. List management has been as awful as drafting.