Alien/UFO Aliens

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Posted about this guy in another thread - David M Jacobs.

He's a very well respected history professor in America. And also a very high profile Ufologist.

His field of expertise is alien abductions. And he gathers his data, and has done so for 30 years. using hypnosis.

His methods are quite rigorous, and from what I gather he's very non-directional.

Anyways, he's published a few books on his conclusions from the research. He takes a more pessimistic view of the alien situation than the sadly departed John Mack.

Worth a look if you want to get a fix on the more academic end of alien research - still fringe and highly contentious, but at least he follows what he believes is the evidence, and leaves much of the New Age investing out.

"Temple University professor David Jacobs, Ph.D., the author of the highly regarded books The UFO Controversy In America and Secret Life, has spent more than 30 years researching UFOs and alien abduction. But it was only recently that he came to feel he had solved the mystery to his own satisfaction. The solutions he arrived at are the subject of his third book, The Threat: What The Aliens Really Want And How They Plan To Get It (Simon and Schuster, 1998). Finding what he believes to be the answers was not a happy event for Jacobs. He told us recently that he now approaches the subject with an attitude of dread and deep concern about the future of humanity and the planet we call home."

http://aliensandchildren.org/InterviewwithProf.htm
 
Couple of bits in the news last week that are worth bearing in mind re the possibiitity of alien life.

1. Some young kid emailed NASA for help with his school project. Oe of the questions was how many stars were there in the universe. Here is the answer from NASA's head engineer:

"Q: How many stars are there?

A: You might see a lot of stars, but the truth is there are more stars than you can even see. There are so many stars that it’s really hard to imagine how many there are. So we haven’t counted every single star in the universe, that would take a really long time. But instead engineers and scientists are really good at estimating really large numbers.

- he told Lucas there were about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...ur-year-old-schoolboys-science-questions.html

NASA also announced the discovery of a bunch of new planets, doubling the amount of known planets orbiting stars.

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sc...discovers-715-new-planets-20140227-33j58.html

And this, which suggests that our Milky Way alone has 20 Billion earth like planets.

It’s not possible to detect and count every single planet in the Milky Way, any more than it’s possible to shake the hand and take the name of every single person living in the U.S. In both cases, a sort of statistical sampling is often involved. When you know enough about most of the people living in any one town, county or state, you can make accurate inferences about the rest. The same goes in space, where Kepler is trying to determine the frequency of certain types of exoplanets. What percentage of stars host Jupiter-size worlds? How many have Neptunes? And most crucially for the search for extraterrestrial life, how many Earth-size planets orbit in their stars’ habitable zones, the regions in which temperatures are hospitable for living creatures?

Kepler has been chipping away at this question since the probe was launched in 2009, but a new report in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences has now moved scientists a giant step closer to the ultimate answer. According to the new analysis, a whopping 22% of sunlike stars have planets more or less the size of Earth in their habitable zones. That adds up to about 20 billion Earths in our galaxy alone, says lead author Erik Petigura, of the University of California, Berkeley. That in turn means that an Earth-like world is likely to be just 12 light-years away, and that its parent star is visible to the naked eye. “It’s really amazing when you think about it,” Petigura says.

http://science.time.com/2013/11/04/...ecial-there-could-be-20-billion-just-like-it/

Read more: 20 Billion Earths in the Milky Way Alone? | TIME.com http://science.time.com/2013/11/04/...uld-be-20-billion-just-like-it/#ixzz2ugqq0ghn
 
grizzlym said:
Couple of bits in the news last week that are worth bearing in mind re the possibiitity of alien life.

1. Some young kid emailed NASA for help with his school project. Oe of the questions was how many stars were there in the universe. Here is the answer from NASA's head engineer:

"Q: How many stars are there?

A: You might see a lot of stars, but the truth is there are more stars than you can even see. There are so many stars that it’s really hard to imagine how many there are. So we haven’t counted every single star in the universe, that would take a really long time. But instead engineers and scientists are really good at estimating really large numbers.

- he told Lucas there were about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...ur-year-old-schoolboys-science-questions.html

NASA also announced the discovery of a bunch of new planets, doubling the amount of known planets orbiting stars.

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sc...discovers-715-new-planets-20140227-33j58.html

And this, which suggests that our Milky Way alone has 20 Billion earth like planets.

It’s not possible to detect and count every single planet in the Milky Way, any more than it’s possible to shake the hand and take the name of every single person living in the U.S. In both cases, a sort of statistical sampling is often involved. When you know enough about most of the people living in any one town, county or state, you can make accurate inferences about the rest. The same goes in space, where Kepler is trying to determine the frequency of certain types of exoplanets. What percentage of stars host Jupiter-size worlds? How many have Neptunes? And most crucially for the search for extraterrestrial life, how many Earth-size planets orbit in their stars’ habitable zones, the regions in which temperatures are hospitable for living creatures?

Kepler has been chipping away at this question since the probe was launched in 2009, but a new report in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences has now moved scientists a giant step closer to the ultimate answer. According to the new analysis, a whopping 22% of sunlike stars have planets more or less the size of Earth in their habitable zones. That adds up to about 20 billion Earths in our galaxy alone, says lead author Erik Petigura, of the University of California, Berkeley. That in turn means that an Earth-like world is likely to be just 12 light-years away, and that its parent star is visible to the naked eye. “It’s really amazing when you think about it,” Petigura says.

http://science.time.com/2013/11/04/...ecial-there-could-be-20-billion-just-like-it/

Read more: 20 Billion Earths in the Milky Way Alone? | TIME.com http://science.time.com/2013/11/04/...uld-be-20-billion-just-like-it/#ixzz2ugqq0ghn
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Ripping post, the topic and vastness of space so to speak is so hard to comprehend.
 
Absolutely, 100%, there are aliens out there..this however is a totaly different topic to "have we met them"...

The shark is an animal that has existed since the age of dinosaurs. It has been supremely successful, and has had no need to change its design...it's not capable of designing a ufo, and never will be. What's to say there aren't many different established and quite complicated life forms which similarly have only reached a point of development suited to their environment and nothing else. Life in the oceans of Europa would have no concept of a world above the ice they'd be trapped in - it's rarely open, and anything near such cracks would probably be killed off, due to the extreme turbulence (created by the gravitational stresses that heat the oceans up in the first place)...

I've often tried to imagine different life forms, trying to completely break away from the stereotypes given to us by Star Trek (just put prosthetic noses on human actors), and Star Wars, and a favourite that keeps coming up is giant jellyfish floating in the atmosphere of gas giants, inhabiting the zones where they can float, breathe, not be crushed by dense gases and liquids, or burnt...but what use would such a creature have for hands, which have been the catalyst for apes to develop the intelligence needed to create spaceships on this planet...? If they managed to develop intelligence and wonder at the universe, how would they get the materials needed to build a starship...wouldn't be easy if you were a creature kilometres wide to begin with...

We assume all life needs the molecular structures we see here on Earth, but what if life elsewhere isn't carbon based, and isn't even solid? Could an alien be made of gas, instead of solid matter? We still don't understand the brain, thought, or the electrochemical processes which we are constructed from - what if mental processes, rather than being a still magical phenomenon we attribute to spirits and god, are a tangible but undiscovered element we haven't detected properly yet - aliens made of thought? We also assume that life has to exist in the temperate belt around any given star, the range of temperature life on Earth can live inside...which, if it were a graph, would occur in a line as wide as your hand, on a graph the size of a skyscraper. What if life, instead of using water as a medium, exists in a temp zone too cold for h20...organisms living in liquid nitrogen, for example...?

It's out there, absolutely. i don't personally believe we've seen it, and maybe never will until we can land on alien worlds, which will be limited to those we can reach in this solar system. I'm not convinced we will develop the ability to warp space, beat the speed of light, or whatever...or that anyone else has or will either. We can travel faster than Voyager, but we won't be reaching Sirius or Vega literally for centuries - if we can design an intergenerational ship and beat all of the human body destroying problems that outer space throws at us, never mind the ship staying together long enough for that to occur...

Which means, that if we ever want an intelligent conversation, we have to rely on radio telescopes. However, two catches - 1) signal degradation...if it's already hard enough trying to pick up a tv station 100km away due to a few hills, how can we expect anything to make it through dark matter, radiation, solid bodies, time, space and dust and still be the recognisable product we've tuned our sensors to, and 2) speaking of tuning, we are a species that has designed our entire counting system on the fact we have ten fingers. We therefore start setting our frequencies to multiples of ten...if you're an alien with 14 fingers, though, such factorisation becomes totally irrelevant...forgive my fuzzy maths, but you'll find the freqencies you'd need to set your gear to, become numbers noone would think of on planet Remulak, and vice versa...

Saturday night, nothing on tv until Round 1 in a fortnight, kids finally in bed, bourbon based ramblings...!
 
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grizzlym said:
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This dude, wrote the Threat. I looked it up online, I gather he's suggesting that they are here to take over the world, using us to breed hybrids because, to quote from the interwebz, "they can't reproduce".

Now hang on there big guy, if the aliens are unable to reproduce, then how the feck were they born in the first place?
 

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Duritz said:
This dude, wrote the Threat. I looked it up online, I gather he's suggesting that they are here to take over the world, using us to breed hybrids because, to quote from the interwebz, "they can't reproduce".

Now hang on there big guy, if the aliens are unable to reproduce, then how the feck were they born in the first place?
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OK this will sound weird but... alien "folklore" says that "Greys" reproduce by cloning, which degrades their DNA over time so they extract DNA samples from humans to repair the damage. Can't remember where I read it though :confused:
 
Duritz said:
This dude, wrote the Threat. I looked it up online, I gather he's suggesting that they are here to take over the world, using us to breed hybrids because, to quote from the interwebz, "they can't reproduce".

Now hang on there big guy, if the aliens are unable to reproduce, then how the feck were they born in the first place?
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Dunno. One of the best things Jacobs wrote was something along the lines of: 'I don't know what their reason is, all I know is from the evidence I'm gathering they appear to be engaged in a mass covert operation that centres upon reproduction'. In short, merely presenting the 'evidence' as he sees it without venturing a conclusion. I haven't read The Threat, does he propose a theory?
 
grizzlym said:
Dunno. One of the best things Jacobs wrote was something along the lines of: 'I don't know what their reason is, all I know is from the evidence I'm gathering they appear to be engaged in a mass covert operation that centres upon reproduction'. In short, merely presenting the 'evidence' as he sees it without venturing a conclusion. I haven't read The Threat, does he propose a theory?
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I haven't read it either, but war a touch worried about a species who can't reproduce, and who yet manage to not be in existence. :confused:
 
Werewolf said:
OK this will sound weird but... alien "folklore" says that "Greys" reproduce by cloning, which degrades their DNA over time so they extract DNA samples from humans to repair the damage. Can't remember where I read it though :confused:
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So they can't reproduce, they clone? So what happened when the first Grey sprang up into existence? Did he look about him and say, "Right. Best I invent a cloning machine so's I have someone to carry on after me."

A touch far fetched.
 
Duritz said:
I haven't read it either, but war a touch worried about a species who can't reproduce, and who yet manage to not be in existence. :confused:
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The reasons 'why' I always find problematic. The 'program' might simply be the extraterrestrial equivalent of a puppy farm. After all, what can we offer a species that can master space/time and build things that fly really, really fast? The 'why' is invariably, and not unreasonably, completely constructed from our perspective, both with humans at the centre of the narrative and the narrative framed in our terms of understanding. What I mean by this is we're like the chickens and they the farmers. We're talking like chickens, from the chicken's perspective. We simply cannot frame the narrative in something we have no idea about.
 
grizzlym said:
The reasons 'why' I always find problematic. The 'program' might simply be the extraterrestrial equivalent of a puppy farm. After all, what can we offer a species that can master space/time and build things that fly really, really fast? The 'why' is invariably, and not unreasonably, completely constructed from our perspective, both with humans at the centre of the narrative and the narrative framed in our terms of understanding. What I mean by this is we're like the chickens and they the farmers. We're talking like chickens, from the chicken's perspective. We simply cannot frame the narrative in something we have no idea about.
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A good analogy. Perhaps it's like the tiger in the jungle, who the rangers tag so they can monitor it. They fly down in strange machines that frighten the tiger, and render it paralysed, before performing a strange surgical procedure on it. From the tigers point of view, all this is baffling. From the rangers point of view, necessary for the tigers survival.

I think I read that analogy somewhere.
 
Duritz said:
A good analogy. Perhaps it's like the tiger in the jungle, who the rangers tag so they can monitor it. They fly down in strange machines that frighten the tiger, and render it paralysed, before performing a strange surgical procedure on it. From the tigers point of view, all this is baffling. From the rangers point of view, necessary for the tigers survival.

I think I read that analogy somewhere.
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I think Jacques Valle used the chicken and farmer analogy. Whoever it was also expanded it to include how they feel about us: we're literally low rent animals, Barely evolved, compared to them, and while they don;t try to harm us, but if they inadvertently do, it's much like the farmer and the chicken.
 
grizzlym said:
I think Jacques Valle used the chicken and farmer analogy. Whoever it was also expanded it to include how they feel about us: we're literally low rent animals, Barely evolved, compared to them, and while they don;t try to harm us, but if they inadvertently do, it's much like the farmer and the chicken.
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Unlike the chickens though, we have the capacity to improve, and learn. Perhaps the aliens were once in the role of chicken, too, many thousands of years ago.
 
Duritz said:
Unlike the chickens though, we have the capacity to improve, and learn. Perhaps the aliens were once in the role of chicken, too, many thousands of years ago.
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Yes, but our capacity to learn and improve is only compared to other animals on this planet. Another advanced lifeform might regard what we perceive to be a massive difference to be almost nothing at all; a mere footnote in the galactic book of barely-above sentient species.
 
grizzlym said:
Yes, but our capacity to learn and improve is only compared to other animals on this planet. Another advanced lifeform might regard what we perceive to be a massive difference to be almost nothing at all; a mere footnote in the galactic book of barely-above sentient species.
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Perhaps. However, I could argue that any self aware being could possibly, over a long enough period, have limitless potential improvement.
 
Duritz said:
Perhaps. However, I could argue that any self aware being could possibly, over a long enough period, have limitless potential improvement.
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Yes, sure. we just don't know, or can't comprehend what the scale of measurement might be.
 
Werewolf said:
OK this will sound weird but... alien "folklore" says that "Greys" reproduce by cloning, which degrades their DNA over time so they extract DNA samples from humans to repair the damage. Can't remember where I read it though :confused:
Click to expand...
This is the plot of Destroy All Humans...
 
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