Mega Thread AFL Victoria Points debate.
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Could be argued that anyone who couldn't get a gig at Melbourne would struggle at our elite A Grade level. Remember Jack Watts is still getting a game down at the Dees.
Mags may struggle.
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Doubt it. Has been killing it in the VFL. Absolute beast of man who will dominate the VAFA.
Thought it would be impossible for a VAFA team, particularity an old boys club, to get anywhere near the points limit but SKOBs seem to be giving it a decent crack. While I don’t profess to know how it works surely 6 or so AFL players who did not go the school or play for their unders would put them right up there.
They might need the services of Julian Burnside after all
Halfback Flank1
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Doubt it. Has been killing it in the VFL. Absolute beast of man who will dominate the VAFA.
Thought it would be impossible for a VAFA team, particularity an old boys club, to get anywhere near the points limit but SKOBs seem to be giving it a decent crack. While I don’t profess to know how it works surely 6 or so AFL players who did not go the school or play for their unders would put them right up there.
They might need the services of Julian Burnside after all
I think you might find the St Kevin's will be ok. Salopek has been there for three years so he's a 1 or 2 pointer. Gysberts low points as he hasn't played an AFL game for years. I think the points system is a joke in the VAFA. The VAFA has the opportunity to become the comp of choice for players looking to better themselves and secure a professional future rather than become cash mercenaries in the EFL or EDFL. Just look at SKOB there ex AFL boys hang around. St Bernards Bentick has been there for 3 or 4 years. These boys see the merits of the VAFA and have improved the level of footy. If the VAFA didn't introduce the points the comp would get even stronger. It would even become a feeder to the AFL for emerging players especially when the VFL drop the development league in 2017.
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Not saying the points system or good or bad. I’m actually asking for someone to explain it to me and also suggesting that SKOBs might do what I thought was impossible and actually gets close to the max allocation. And how many of their current AFL blokes went to the school? Not that it really matters but the answer is zero
I certainly don’t need a lecture on the pro and cons of the VAFA. Been involved in almost every capacity since the 80s so I believe me I get it!
Bentick different to the SKOB players. Went to the school and has other family connections to the club. He would be there irrespective of job offers or other opportunities.
BrianSpeaking
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Steve Salopek as far as SKOB are concerned is a St Kevin's boy, his brother went to the College, so Stevie is certainly seen as 'one of us'. Steve Gilham is the godfather of Sal's kids and his best mate, so not much in it to be honest, which won't excite the conspiracy theorists but it's a fact.
I believe the VAFA should also be giving the promoted clubs an extra 20% allowance as far as points go, everyone knows when you go up a grade that you need 6-8 re recruits to be competitive.
Any news on the Uni teams?
I believe the VAFA should also be giving the promoted clubs an extra 20% allowance as far as points go, everyone knows when you go up a grade that you need 6-8 re recruits to be competitive.
Any news on the Uni teams?
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Matters little but no matter which way you dice it Salopek went to St Francis Xavier and Gilham to Whitefriars. And fwiw Gysberts went to Yarra Valley Grammar I think. So with Jamar and Magner they will accrue quite a few points.
20% allowance.....Please. My limited knowledge of the points system is that it is so generous it is almost impossible to exceed it. St Kevins has so many footballers on the books they don’t know what to do with them all. Surely you have enough resources at your disposal already?
Unsubstantiated word is that Blacks have lost quite a few to retirement or $ in some country and metro leagues but maybe Tyson Kruse back. Not sure on Blues. Watts gone so that is big one.
Doubt it. Has been killing it in the VFL. Absolute beast of man who will dominate the VAFA.
Thought it would be impossible for a VAFA team, particularity an old boys club, to get anywhere near the points limit but SKOBs seem to be giving it a decent crack. While I don’t profess to know how it works surely 6 or so AFL players who did not go the school or play for their unders would put them right up there.
They might need the services of Julian Burnside after all
Seems subsequent posts by the Burnside theorist have allowed that bit of absurdness to die of natural causes.
Re the points system. Let me get this right, if a friend of the mate of a player who is the acquaintance of someone who was a student of a school at some point in time makes him a former student and eligible to be considered an old boy by, er, proxy.
BrianSpeaking
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Salopek is a 1 point player, Gysberts a 2 point and Gilly 5 points, so 8 points between them. The equivalent of two recruits from the EDFL or the Eastern League, so SKOB have plenty up their sleeves
As far as resources go, this is not about SKOB, it's about all teams in the VAFA who are promoted into the level above, it makes sense that they are given a leg up if they have to abide by this ridiculous scenario imposed upon a non paying club or they will go straight back down.
As far as resources go, this is not about SKOB, it's about all teams in the VAFA who are promoted into the level above, it makes sense that they are given a leg up if they have to abide by this ridiculous scenario imposed upon a non paying club or they will go straight back down.
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Salopek is a 1 point player, Gysberts a 2 point and Gilly 5 points, so 8 points between them. The equivalent of two recruits from the EDFL or the Eastern League, so SKOB have plenty up their sleeves
As far as resources go, this is not about SKOB, it's about all teams in the VAFA who are promoted into the level above, it makes sense that they are given a leg up if they have to abide by this ridiculous scenario imposed upon a non paying club or they will go straight back down.
So in simple terms how does it work? Why Gilham 5 and Gysberts 2 when they arrived at the same time? I assume on that basis Magner and Jamar would be 4 or 5s?
Do we get many from the EDFL or EFL who did not go to the school affiliated with the club? Can’t think of many?
Just cannot see how a club could get anywhere near the max points without entering into a model that is completely unsustainable
I'll let you boys do some quick sums*remember bonus points (if not a home player for:
•3 clubs in 3 years
•top 5 in club BNF or top 10 league BNF previous season
•more than 40 goals previous season
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Cheers. More questions than answers though! How does it impact on a returning player - e.g. someone who only ever played at the club but then went off to the VFL or other comp for a few years?
I need to do some homework to get my head around this.
Returning player (even if they played AFL) is only 1 point. That is if they played more than 40 games of juniors linked to that club
Or that club has a memorandum of understanding with a junior club
I don't claim to be a know it all but I've had a couple of extra months studying this. Ask away if you have any questions
Is it broadly based on the system that has been in place in the MPNFL for sometime Fish 20?
http://www.sportingpulse.com/get_file.cgi?id=1699521
http://www.sportingpulse.com/get_file.cgi?id=1699521
Looks like it is loosely based AM except new AFL Vic model:
•is 50 points instead of 39
•no "exemption player"
•has a premium community player section. Meaning non home players revert to 4 points if:
*top 5 club BNF
*top 10 league BNF
*40+ goals in previous season AND
**VAFA rep side in previous or current season (meaning extra points will be added on during the season if not a home player) e.g player could go from 2 points to 4 points mid way through the year
•extra point added for 3 clubs in 3 years (shouldn't bother VAFA sides too much)
•has a development player section (2 points) i.e more reserves games played than seniors in the previous season if transferring to your club
•AFL & state player categories slightly structured differently in that MPNFL had a breakdown in games played category
•is 50 points instead of 39
•no "exemption player"
•has a premium community player section. Meaning non home players revert to 4 points if:
*top 5 club BNF
*top 10 league BNF
*40+ goals in previous season AND
**VAFA rep side in previous or current season (meaning extra points will be added on during the season if not a home player) e.g player could go from 2 points to 4 points mid way through the year
•extra point added for 3 clubs in 3 years (shouldn't bother VAFA sides too much)
•has a development player section (2 points) i.e more reserves games played than seniors in the previous season if transferring to your club
•AFL & state player categories slightly structured differently in that MPNFL had a breakdown in games played category
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I don't it like it at all.
The art of recruiting is an art.
Having a strong team who does homework on players leaving the AFL or VFL system, getting a list of who to approach and then targeting these players is what all teams need to do. If you are not aware of a player who is a chance to want to play A Grade next year, then become aware. Dont rely on a points system that does not suit our ammos comp to help you out.
The art of recruiting is an art.
Having a strong team who does homework on players leaving the AFL or VFL system, getting a list of who to approach and then targeting these players is what all teams need to do. If you are not aware of a player who is a chance to want to play A Grade next year, then become aware. Dont rely on a points system that does not suit our ammos comp to help you out.
The 'art' will be in forcing clubs to use finesse in securing players rather than wealth and connectedness by evening the playing field. Those clubs who believe they are superior recruiters should have nothing to fear with the checks and balances inherent in the proposed system. Only the Arthur Daley's need be concerned.
BrianSpeaking
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Canada, agree wholeheartedly. This system rewards clubs who don't work hard enough, and it will also reward Old Boys clubs who have super strong football programmes at school.
It will also restrict the VAFA in its goal of being the the strongest competition outside of the AFL/VFL.
It will also restrict the VAFA in its goal of being the the strongest competition outside of the AFL/VFL.
Of course fear plays a part. Progress often affects people that way. There's even one individual here who spoke of legal challenges on some fatuous human rights grounds.
When the AFL draft was being considered we had the same cries of doom and gloom from the conservatives and the obstinate.
To suggest club wealth is not a factor is to not see the wood for the trees and only part of connectedness is due to hard work.
Top line recruiters will embrace the change seeing the evening of the playing field as a challenge to be met. As I mentioned, only the Arthur Daley's will be getting stressed.
I like your posts AM, but I'm guessing you haven't been part of a well oiled recruiting team? If wealth equals the team drinking a Peroni at the pub, rather than a tap draft, then maybe you are onto something. But I'm talking about a group dedicated to making their club strong by taking the time and effort to meet at the pub 10 times over a 2 month period, during normal family time, and work out who to get and how to get them. It's just effort and hard work. Nothing else.
Connectedness comes from hard work. Clubs just need to find out who actually knows who and how to contact them. Everyone knows someone who knows someone, who can help put in that call. As I said, this point system will not suit the Ammos.
Connectedness comes from hard work. Clubs just need to find out who actually knows who and how to contact them. Everyone knows someone who knows someone, who can help put in that call. As I said, this point system will not suit the Ammos.
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A Q for Fish
As nearly all VAFA school based clubs don’t have juniors how does the 40 games rule apply? If the player went to the school (or the uni as described above) does that equate to a junior club? Most have U19s but difficult to chalk up 40 games of unders.
Would suggest that 80 % of the players who join my club at U19s are drawn from 3 junior clubs and 95% went to the school. However not many would play 40 games of U19s.
For some reason in thought it was 49 points, which is why I suggested SKOBS, might run that close. However 50 is extremely generous and I cant se how any old boys club could get anywhere near that.
As nearly all VAFA school based clubs don’t have juniors how does the 40 games rule apply? If the player went to the school (or the uni as described above) does that equate to a junior club? Most have U19s but difficult to chalk up 40 games of unders.
Would suggest that 80 % of the players who join my club at U19s are drawn from 3 junior clubs and 95% went to the school. However not many would play 40 games of U19s.
For some reason in thought it was 49 points, which is why I suggested SKOBS, might run that close. However 50 is extremely generous and I cant se how any old boys club could get anywhere near that.
I'm no babe in the woods Canada. Not for awhile, but I've been a 'spotter' for a club with a 'well oiled' list management group outside the VAFA and involved with two clubs within the VAFA where recruiting was part of it. Volunteers sadly don't grow on the proverbial tree. In many clubs it's a case of all- hands-on-deck. Added to which, not many VAFA clubs have people who exclusively recruit. I can't think of any off hand.
Let me give you one of many instances of club wealth being a factor because it relates to this board. One of the SKEVIES posters said that the new facilities were a factor in them securing players. Facilities the club put around $250k into so it was suggested. Throw in the influence the club had in getting agreement for the other millions to be spent and there you have it.
Part of connectedness is diligent work, I've agreed with that, but it is not only that. It also has to do with influence, networks et al. A club like Chadstone - to pick just one of many - will never be capable of matching an OX - to pick just one of many - no matter how industrious they are.
I'm not sure why people are so fearful of a system designed to even-out the playing field. A version has been in existence in the MPNFL for years and worked well. My understanding is there is no push to remove it even from the naysayers who shouted from the rooftops when it was being considered.
Anyway, I'm confident the VAFA won't agree to be part of the points system unless they see upside in it.
SKOB Football
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Don't have a problem with a points system in any league where players are paid. Telling a player he cannot play at a club of his choice for nothing in the VAFA because if he plays the club will exceed its points limit does not sit well with me. I thinks it's pretty farcical actually. Canada's posts are spot on.
