The 9th best player in the AFL is......

Shwab · May 31, 2011

Final Siren (stats website) 2011 Player Ratings

No 1 - Scott Pendlebury
No 2 - Matthew Boyd
No 3 - Dane Swan
No 4 - Dean Cox
No 5 - Marc Murphy
No 6 - Scott Thompson
No 7 - David Mundy
No 8 - Chris Judd
No 9 - Liam Shiels
No 10 - Dustin Martin
No 11 - Dale Thomas
No 12 - Lance Franklin

Was browsing a few stats websites and came across this extraordinary ranking of our invisible wonderkid. There's a million ways to fault this list and the websites rating system, but every other player in the top 10 is undoubtedly bona fide and recognised widely as having a great season.

Regardless of the many and varied arguments to completely discredit this rating, you can not deny the breakout year this young fella is having.

Time to win some bets at the pub on the "Number 1 ranked Hawthorn Player for 2011" according to FinalSiren.com - 5 guesses for $50?

illnino · May 31, 2011

Just wow.....didn't expect that. The kid is a keeper. Although many say you can't change your kicking style, I believe Pup is young enough to improve his. It's the one aspect of his game that needs a little work. The rest of his game, particularly this year, is excellent.

Well done Pup. Certainly flying under the radar a bit with so many other youngsters also playing well.

lethalselbow · May 31, 2011

Nice one. He's had an outstanding season to date. :thumbsu:

Agent Smith · May 31, 2011

Awesome young player - the future of Hawthorn. Kudos to Liam who has taken his opportunity with both hands and is doing himself proud.

It's amazing how a couple of years ago the worry was what would happen once the Mitchells and Hodges and Batemans of this world got too old to carry the midfield, who would take over?

Suddenly, Liam fulfills expectations, as does Savage, Hallahan is waiting in the wings, and Zac Smith comes on board.

Now we just need the next number 23 wearer to walk into the club. Which one of you was responsible for locking Buddy in a room with 100 women and how is the Buddy Jnr experiment going?

SSSSSS · May 31, 2011

Definately flying under the radar. He's the same age as Fyfe and Martin and yet is still not getting the same recognition as the two whilst having an outstanding year in terms of consistency and improvement. So far he is amongst the best from the 08 draft so far with Sidebottom, Zaharakis, Hill and Hannebury. Good job Shiela

Beandip · May 31, 2011

I'm loving that Pup is performing so well, so consistently basically completely under the radar.

A fairly meaningless addition, but if you look at DT over the last 5 or so rounds Shiels is arguably the best midfielder going around, more points than Swan/Judd/Selwood/Boyd/Pendles etc etc.

He is just a clever player he positions well to receive lots of ball, yet goes into packs to dig it out plenty as well has quick disposal, good pace and good endurance, he is slotting into our side like a 150 game player and he's only JUST turned 20! I must admit Pelchen has a tick in the win column with Shiels.

Hodgepodge · May 31, 2011

I like Shiels but finalsiren's ranking system is not much of an indicator. On Champion Data rankings he's averaging 91 . . . and I'd say 100 points or over pretty much guarantees you're a recognized gun player. Shiels had a good start to the year, but he's been in even better form the last 4 weeks in particular. The PA game was a breakthrough performance.

P.S. His kicking gets criticized a bit, but I bet if you ask Buddy he's one of his favourite players to lead to. Just pops it up nicely for him and allows him to run onto it. Not an elite kick, but smart by foot and uses it well.

Judd2Sewell · May 31, 2011

I love his work-ethic and hardness. He tackles (a lot), and is obviously an inside player - yet is willing to run and provide an option for our defenders as evidenced by his high mark tallies so far this season.

He's going to be a great player for us.

Hodgepodge · May 31, 2011

Averaging 104 Champion Data points a game since the bye. It's either a run of good form or he's gone up a level.

Dipper · Jun 1, 2011

I thought this was going to be another Murphy thread.

Thaihawk · Jun 1, 2011

Interesting to note there are no cats on the list.

pacman · Jun 1, 2011

Reminds so much of a young Lenny Hayes, not super quick and actually not elite at anything just excellent at everything.

hawker39 · Jun 1, 2011

Dipper said:
I thought this was going to be another Murphy thread.

VERY FUNNY

But maybe in another month it will be true????

Cynic · Jun 1, 2011

Thaihawk said:
Interesting to note there are no cats on the list.

By average they have 9 & 10 with Selwood and Johnson, Shiels come in at 12.

Collins-Langford-Ayres · Jun 1, 2011

Has a huge future.

benhawk · Jun 1, 2011

Agent Smith said:
Awesome young player - the future of Hawthorn. Kudos to Liam who has taken his opportunity with both hands and is doing himself proud.

It's amazing how a couple of years ago the worry was what would happen once the Mitchells and Hodges and Batemans of this world got too old to carry the midfield, who would take over?

Suddenly, Liam fulfills expectations, as does Savage, Hallahan is waiting in the wings, and Zac Smith comes on board.

Now we just need the next number 23 wearer to walk into the club. Which one of you was responsible for locking Buddy in a room with 100 women and how is the Buddy Jnr experiment going?

Now that would be nice!

parsons nose · Jun 1, 2011

Probably have to go all the way to Craw to find a young midfielder with so impressive numbers. Not sure if champion data recognizes defensive pressure as I feel this is an area where he really excels.

Hodgepodge · Jun 1, 2011

parsons nose said:
Probably have to go all the way to Craw to find a young midfielder with so impressive numbers. Not sure if champion data recognizes defensive pressure as I feel this is an area where he really excels.

It has a new stat called pressure acts. From memory Shiels had 20 of these. The highest amount for the Dogs was 32.

Bardo State · Jun 1, 2011

Averaging 5.4 tackles, monster effort. Could end up one of the best pick 34s (?) of all time

Hawks2009 · Jun 1, 2011

Final siren stats are purely Dream Team stats.

3 points per kick, 2 per handball, 3 per mark, 4 per tackle etc.

And it is overall points, not everage per game so if a player has missed a game he wont be there.

Not bagging the stat, it just shows that he is winning a lot of the footy and taking a lot of marks and making a lot of tackles. Although I think the can be missleading because you get 3 points for a mark. He averages 7 marks a game.

The stat i like is he has 48 tackles from 9 games.

Also has 15 frees for and only 5 against. 3 came in the 1 game.They include OOF and holding the ball against too.

Only once has he had under 20 touches this season

Just shows you need patience with the young blokes, last year he was being accused of not being up to it on this board.

Roby · Jun 1, 2011

This is what I posted last week in the Bay of all places.

I started a thread in the main board how Shiels is underrated. Some of the comments here suggest that no doubt.

Here are some of the stats at the same age:
Shiels vs Selwood

13.4 Kicks Per Game 11.8
9.5 Handballs Per Game 13.5
22.9 Disposals Per Game 25.3
6.5 Marks Per Game 4.2
0.5 Goals Per Game 0.2
0.6 Behinds Per Game 0.4
5.4 Tackles Per Game 3.2
0.2 Hitouts Per Game 0.1
1.4 Frees For Per Game 2.6
0.6 Frees Against Per Game 0.9

There is not a massive difference here in disposals, 2 disposals. I'm guessing the contested possession would favour Selwood, but Shiels is averaging 2 more tackles, that's quite a bit. Shiels is also averaging .3 goals a game more.

This year after 8 games, Shiels has averaged 90 supercoach points after only having turned 20 a month ago. At the same age, Selwood in his previous 8 games averaged 77.5 supercoach points. If you include his whole year up until age 20, Selwood averaged 82.5, but like all young players he had a up and down start. Although one should note, he finished that year playing in a GF and with an average of 98 and an excellent finals performance, especially in the grand final.

I find it amusing when people say that Shiels cannot be held in the same breath as Selwood. Every game I've seen says to me at such a young age he is definitely in that category. The problem is that the Cats in the last few years have been at the top, the Hawks haven't reached that since 08 (Shiels had not even been drafted yet) and perceptions and judgements are based on these.

The difference is that Selwood was drafted as 18 year old, where as Shiels was still doing VCE and drafted as a 17 year old. He just made the draft age requirement. So in a struggling side who could not make the finals in 08 and year younger still at school and one needs to make concessions when making comparisons.

Shiels improvement in the last 2 seasons has been immense, and I expect him to continue to improve and maybe he might end up as good as Selwood, and if he doesn't I can't really ask too much more as a Hawks supporter as he already plays like 200 game player. He currently is in the top tackler at the club and is the top 5 in nearly every category you can think of. Not bad for a someone who just turned 20 a month ago and played 25 games.

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