Holding the man rule

[Ricky Vaughn]

I agree fewer free kicks is better.

But it needs to be consistent across all games, all season.

Macrae felt the need to comment about this very fact after Saturday's game; I reckon he's in a pretty good position to comment.

Unless you just think he was using it as a hollow excuse?

Macrae doesn't give s**t about being correct, he cares about what's best for Collingwood. He's put on the agenda that the Pies were hard done by in relation to HTB (He's wrong), but he's hoping those comments can translate to a few more decisions falling the Pies way moving forward.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

So by this post you are conceding that there is differing of the interpretation of the rules. Thanks for clearing that up.

Has that ever been up for debate? I've literally mentioned that numerous times.

First you need to know the rules before you can interpret them. A staggeringly large numbers of Collingwood fans on Saturday couldn't get the first bit right. Their opinion holds no weight.

 

[Fadge]

Macrae doesn't give s**t about being correct, he cares about what's best for Collingwood. He's put on the agenda that the Pies were hard done by in relation to HTB (He's wrong), but he's hoping those comments can translate to a few more decisions falling the Pies way moving forward.

'He's wrong'?

So you've reviewed all Collingwood games this season and the interpretation from umpires has been consistent all the way through, including Saturday's Final?

Because that is what he's basing his opinion on. And he has an extremely valid point.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

'He's wrong'?

So you've reviewed all Collingwood games this season and the interpretation from umpires has been consistent all the way through, including Saturday's Final?

Because that is what he's basing his opinion on. And he has an extremely valid point.

Yes, he's wrong. I don't respect umpire bashing, particularly by a senior coach.

You act like Macrae doesn't have an agenda in his comments.

 

[beerbandit]

Has that ever been up for debate? I've literally mentioned that numerous times.

First you need to know the rules before you can interpret them. A staggeringly large numbers of Collingwood fans on Saturday couldn't get the first bit right. Their opinion holds no weight.

That’s the stupidest post of this thread. Your arrogance here is laughable.

 

[Romeoh1]

You started the thread, I’m merely pointing out an obvious rule that Tom Hawkins gets away with. A lot of us opposition fans wonder how and why he gets away with pushing in the back so regularly.

As for holding the man rule, if you don’t have possession which means both hands or one hand controlling the ball then you can’t be tackled, this rule is fairly simple IMO.

The biggest issue with our game at the moment is the incorrect disposal rule/prior opportunity. It’s adjudicated differently each weekend which is the most frustrating thing for the fans.

You can throw stones all you like about my team losing on the weekend and being a “sore loser” but the simple fact is that if you were at the game on Saturday then you would of seen the unrest in the crowd due to the decisions not being called by umpires, Geelong supporters in the crowd were smirking to themselves very sheepishly at times as they knew they were getting away with a fair few holding the ball decisions. This is the biggest issue for the fans, there is no consistency in the interpretation. And to say that it is finals footy and to put the whistle away is an absolute farce as you need to reward the tackler for the effort they have just put in. Not sure if you have played the game but the hardest thing physically in our game is the repeat 2nd and 3rd efforts, for them to go unrewarded must be so frustrating to the players. Also the game flows better when they are paid as it doesn’t become a congested mess with continued stoppages.

The game would be in better shape if the umpires just were more consistent each week in how they payed the frees.

Codswallop.

 

[Fadge]

Yes, he's wrong. I don't respect umpire bashing, particularly by a senior coach.

You act like Macrae doesn't have an agenda in his comments.

Were Hardwick's comments (both in the press conference and on 360 on Monday night) about the Lynch goal/point reasonable?

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

Were Hardwick's comments (both in the press conference and on 360 on Monday night) about the Lynch goal/point reasonable?

Dimma's comments were hilarious.

That’s the stupidest post of this thread. Your arrogance here is laughable.

Unfortunately I can't top this for idiocy.

You can throw stones all you like about my team losing on the weekend and being a “sore loser” but the simple fact is that if you were at the game on Saturday then you would of seen the unrest in the crowd due to the decisions not being called by umpires, Geelong supporters in the crowd were smirking to themselves very sheepishly at times as they knew they were getting away with a fair few holding the ball decisions.

 

[Fadge]

Dimma's comments were hilarious.

That's not what I asked.

Was Dimma reasonable in making the comments he made in reference to the Lynch goal/point?

 

[beerbandit]

Dimma's comments were hilarious.

Unfortunately I can't top this for idiocy.

You can throw stones all you like about my team losing on the weekend and being a “sore loser” but the simple fact is that if you were at the game on Saturday then you would of seen the unrest in the crowd due to the decisions not being called by umpires, Geelong supporters in the crowd were smirking to themselves very sheepishly at times as they knew they were getting away with a fair few holding the ball decisions.

No you have and continue to do so.

You were obviously too busy touching up CatMans face paint to acknowledge the crowds behaviour around you, if you were at the game at all.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

That's not what I asked.

Was Dimma reasonable in making the comments he made in reference to the Lynch goal/point?

I don't want to argue semantics as I don't view comments in those settings as "reasonable" or "unreasonable." Both Macrae and Dimma got it wrong. I don't like senior couches criticizing umpiring, but it doesn't keep me up at night.

I'm not sure if Tom Lynch found the comments reasonable. I'd be pretty flat if my boss told me that despite my best efforts my actions cost people their jobs and the company millions of dollars.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

No you have and continue to do so.

Is that your opinion, or did you need the crowd from Saturday to determine your feelings here too?

 

[Fadge]

I don't want to argue semantics as I don't view comments in those settings as "reasonable" or "unreasonable." Both Macrae and Dimma got it wrong. I don't like senior couches criticizing umpiring, but it doesn't keep me up at night.

I'm not sure if Tom Lynch found the comments reasonable. I'd be pretty flat if my boss told me that despite my best efforts my actions cost people their jobs and the company millions of dollars.

See, in my opinion Dimma and Macrae were right to call out their observations, and there should be more of it.

Acknowledging the fact there was some great footy played on the weekend, it must be a concern to the rational person that 50% of the games were influenced by questionable umpiring in the eyes of the head coaches.

Until we see evidence of the vision the ARC referee saw to be able to determine so quickly the Lynch kick was a behind, there must be question marks about that decision. Don't try to twist Hardwick's comments back to Lynch; his comments were rightly about the flawed process whereby there must be conclusive evidence to overturn the goal umpire's decision, and we as the viewing public have not seen that.

Macrae also rightly called out that his team has built a game style that was duly rewarded during the home and away season, but was adjudicated very differently in the Qualifying Final. In a game where the margin was 6 points, this approach from the umpires inevitably also influenced the result of that game.

We get that winners are grinners and losers please themselves, but I for one have had a problem for a long time about the inconsistent and unaccountable nature of the application of the rules in this game. Unfortunately, it seems to be getting worse with every new rule change than better.

 

[beerbandit]

Is that your opinion, or did you need the crowd from Saturday to determine your feelings here too?

Yeah of course I do

You come across like your the only man who has ever watched a game of football , yet all you are doing is coming across as a pompous a**hole.

The crowd are what make our game so special, so please keep insulting everyone of us who attend our fantastic game.

To say the opinions of Collingwood fans have no weight or meaning is absolute comical. Keep pushing your narrative of being a smart arse w*nker. Your doing a top job.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

It should be paid much sooner . If players don't want to get tackled they can tap it on instead of picking up the ball.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

You come across like your the only man who has ever watched a game of football , yet all you are doing is coming across as a pompous a**hole.

The crowd are what make our game so special, so please keep insulting everyone of us who attend our fantastic game.

To say the opinions of Collingwood fans have no weight or meaning is absolute comical. Keep pushing your narrative of being a smart arse w*nker. Your doing a top job.

heck mate, there’s some pretty hurtful stuff in here. Thankfully, as you’re a Collingwood fan, your opinion means nothing to me.

 

[Millky95]

It should be paid much sooner . If players don't want to get tackled they can tap it on instead of picking up the ball.

Lately seeing a lot of players take possession, drop it right before the tackle then get called holding the man. Or deliberately avoid taking possession to get called HTM instead

Frustrates the s**t out of me

 

[beerbandit]

* mate, there’s some pretty hurtful stuff in here. Thankfully, as you’re a Collingwood fan, your opinion means nothing to me.

 

[PhatBoy]

See, in my opinion Dimma and Macrae were right to call out their observations, and there should be more of it.

Acknowledging the fact there was some great footy played on the weekend, it must be a concern to the rational person that 50% of the games were influenced by questionable umpiring in the eyes of the head coaches.

Until we see evidence of the vision the ARC referee saw to be able to determine so quickly the Lynch kick was a behind, there must be question marks about that decision. Don't try to twist Hardwick's comments back to Lynch; his comments were rightly about the flawed process whereby there must be conclusive evidence to overturn the goal umpire's decision, and we as the viewing public have not seen that.

Macrae also rightly called out that his team has built a game style that was duly rewarded during the home and away season, but was adjudicated very differently in the Qualifying Final. In a game where the margin was 6 points, this approach from the umpires inevitably also influenced the result of that game.

We get that winners are grinners and losers please themselves, but I for one have had a problem for a long time about the inconsistent and unaccountable nature of the application of the rules in this game. Unfortunately, it seems to be getting worse with every new rule change than better.

In the eyes of two defeated head coaches.

Hardwick’s comments to me don’t really have a lot of merit because the correct decision was achieved.

He’s essentially saying a process should have seen his side win a game they didn’t deserve to win via a poor decision.

‘We were hard done by because a correct decision went against us and holding onto the fact that the process used was murky is what we have left as leverage.’

I don’t think he’s covered himself in glory.

McRae’s comments reeked of someone who had lost and only had decisions that piqued HIS interest in the forefront of his mine.

Yeah absolutely Geelong got some friendly calls that might have gone the other way on another day.

So did Collingwood. McRae pointing towards the ones that went against his side doesn’t mean much when there was plenty that went for them.

 

[Fadge]

In the eyes of two defeated head coaches.

Hardwick’s comments to me don’t really have a lot of merit because the correct decision was achieved.

He’s essentially saying a process should have seen his side win a game they didn’t deserve to win via a poor decision.

‘We were hard done by because a correct decision went against us and holding onto the fact that the process used was murky is what we have left as leverage.’

I don’t think he’s covered himself in glory.

I disagree with your perspective.

He's saying there is a process in place, and the correct process didn't appear to have been followed.

We see it all the time in cricket. LBW decision where 3/4's of the ball appears to we hitting the stumps as per DRS, but because the umpire's call was not out, the batsman is not out.

Process.

McRae’s comments reeked of someone who had lost and only had decisions that piqued HIS interest in the forefront of his mine.

Yeah absolutely Geelong got some friendly calls that might have gone the other way on another day.

So did Collingwood. McRae pointing towards the ones that went against his side doesn’t mean much when there was plenty that went for them.

It wasn't just decisions that piqued HIS interest.

The general consensus from many neutral observers watching that game was that Collingwood were not being rewarded for their tackling efforts in the same way as the rules have been applied across the season. I'm sure you saw the comments in the GameDay thread here on BigFooty, and no it wasn't just because everyone wanted Geelong to lose. Collingwood aren't that well liked by opposition supporters, you know.

50% of games where the result likely went the wrong way as a result of dubious umpiring.

That's not the way it should be in a professional sport in this day and age.

 

[PhatBoy]

I disagree with your perspective.

He's saying there is a process in place, and the correct process didn't appear to have been followed.

We see it all the time in cricket. LBW decision where 3/4's of the ball appears to we hitting the stumps as per DRS, but because the umpire's call was not out, the batsman is not out.

Process.


It wasn't just decisions that piqued HIS interest.

The general consensus from many neutral observers watching that game was that Collingwood were not being rewarded for their tackling efforts in the same way as the rules have been applied across the season. I'm sure you saw the comments in the GameDay thread here on BigFooty, and no it wasn't just because everyone wanted Geelong to lose. Collingwood aren't that well liked by opposition supporters, you know.

50% of games where the result likely went the wrong way as a result of dubious umpiring.

That's not the way it should be in a professional sport in this day and age.

There’s been many neutrals say the opposite as well.

And as the Twitter umpire said:

Free kicks are penalties, not rewards.

They are given to teams because the other side has transgressed, not because the receiving team has earned the free kick.

And while Collingwood are not well liked? I would say anecdotally from this forum, from social media and general discourse, Geelong just for now are even less well liked. Collingwood will always have an undercurrent of opposition dislike and there will come a time when Geelong f***s off and for a while no one will hate us at all but right now I would wager that there is a very big element of people seeing what they want to see at the cost of all else

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Great to see the Pies v Cats cripple fight on this thread.

But I watched that game on Saturday without any stake in the outcome and I definitely thought Geelong got the better of the adjudications by anything up to about 5-6 decisions net over a fairly adjudicated game. On average that would be worth more than the 1 goal final margin.

If I were a Collingwood supporter I would definitely have felt robbed.

If Cats win their Preliminary Final it definitely has an asterisk. If they also fluked the Grand Final, triple asterisk. Required both rules and umpires in their favour.

Fortunately the Premiership is not decided the same way the All Australian team is.