Umpiring The Umpiring Dissent Rule - Discuss Here

[Fadge]

What is the difference between putting your arms out in disbelief and putting your hands over your eyes/on your head in disbelief?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

No one is forcing you to watch AFL footy. You have complete freedom of choice not to.

 

[danster168]

Yep. He was talking in riddles.

All the dissent frees that were paid were correct, and there were six that were missed. What were these 6?

Dissent is to be judged by the umpires, and he stopped short of stating 'Arms out is dissent', which was interesting.

Nothing surer than a free to be paid for dissent when a player puts his arms out appealing for a free kick over the next couple of rounds, which apparently is not considered dissent.

Not to mention when a 50m is paid due to umpire dissent amd the player reacts with another arms out. By the letter of the law, this should be another 50m.

This happened with Hawkins. He gave away a 50m for standing too close to sicily. Then put his arms out. Should've been another 50m.

This weekend i'm going to screenshot every arms out that isn't paid in 1 game of footy. And find a way to put it into 1 photo. i reckon i'll get about 100 in 1 game. And Brad Scott has the nerve to say they only missed 6.

 

[MickG88]

Umpires don't deserve to be abused for doing their jobs, if the AFL think it's perfectly fine to do anything they need to get rid of it then they have a right but if the umpires want a good relationship with the player, the AFL needs to allow the umpires to have input in what they believe is dissent and abuse. You will start to see players not engage with the umpires and the umpires won't like that because it seems that they love being a part of the "boys". The AFL will put a wedge between players and umpires and that will make the game worse.

 

[nick1408]

Not to mention when a 50m is paid due to umpire dissent amd the player reacts with another arms out. By the letter of the law, this should be another 50m.

This happened with Hawkins. He gave away a 50m for standing too close to sicily. Then put his arms out. Should've been another 50m.

This weekend i'm going to screenshot every arms out that isn't paid in 1 game of footy. And find a way to put it into 1 photo. i reckon i'll get about 100 in 1 game. And Brad Scott has the nerve to say they only missed 6.

On the other hand it could become a farce is 100 50m penalties are paid

 

[danster168]

On the other hand it could become a farce is 100 50m penalties are paid

100%. but a farce will create change. i'd rather it be a circus for a week or 2 than pay 20 umpire dissent's only to miss 467.

 

[Libbaaaa]

This really wasn't that hard to implement, any abusive language or aggressive body language is 50, obviously any swearing or Mitch Robinson

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trying to bite an umps head off. Waving your arms casually and saying 'that wasn't a free' should never be penalised. Civil discourse between player and umpire needs to be encouraged, right now the AFL is basically saying do not even look at the umpire ever.

Would you get 50 paid against you if you told the umpire you love them when a free kick is paid against you? "50, your language and declaration of love was not genuine, come with me".

 

[KissKiss]

This weekend i'm going to screenshot every arms out that isn't paid in 1 game of footy. And find a way to put it into 1 photo. i reckon i'll get about 100 in 1 game. And Brad Scott has the nerve to say they only missed 6.

There will be so much coaching this week to stop players even looking at the umpires let alone putting their arms out. So just wait another 4 weeks until they slacken off again and start ignoring the arms out

 

[Toump Ass]

Can't wait until we have 50 metre penalties for eye rolls.

 

[Toump Ass]

"Tommy your back wasn't straight when you spoke to me! That's disrespectful! 50 metres and you've been reported as well!"

 

[Antzzz]

This is a farce now …. We have got to the point of ridiculousness … I can’t believe clubs will sit there and not stand up against this rubbish

 

[CheapCharlie]

Yep, sure.

There is no place for anyone who risks showing emotion whilst participating in any type of sport.

Emotion is fine.
Dissent / hostility / unnecessarily remonstrating with the Ump isnt.

Learning to control your emotions when needed is part of being a functional adult

 

[peternorth]

Dare umpires to pay 50 on this guy

 

[Fadge]

Emotion is fine.
Dissent / hostility / unnecessarily remonstrating with the Ump isnt.

Learning to control your emotions when needed is part of being a functional adult

Yep, and this is exactly where this line is blurred, and therefore the cause of all of the angst/confusion at the moment.

Is putting your arms out in posturing disbelief at a decision regarded as dissent, and how is this different to putting your hands over your eyes/front of your head in disbelief, or rolling your eyes in disbelief?

 

[Antzzz]

How many 50m penalties for BT here

 

[Bungeye]

Umpires will need to enrol in a body language course to determine if a player is simply annoyed at himself, or has a genuine dissent towards the umpire.

 

[Babylove]

There was always going to be an adjustment period. But at the same time, arguing with the umpires is not the sort of thing that you would miss once it’s gone. You don’t watch an incident where the players don’t argue and wish they had. The players will adjust their behaviour and the AFL will strike the right balance, but it will take some time to get there. But the reality is we don’t want to get back to where we were last year where disrespect for umpires was so blatant that people (including people in the AFL media) were arguing that what Toby Greene

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did last year was acceptable (especially after hearing the horrific incidents that have been happening at the lower levels that were shared after that incident when this all came to a head). And reality is part of the pain from this is because the AFL were too lenient in the past and allowed the disrespect to get out of control. If they had’ve pulled it up sooner this wouldn’t be necessary.

Robbo on 360 last night raised the NRL as a example where they do allow some talk with the umpire but they do have an excessive backchat rule, where once the umpire feels you have gone too far either by going over the top in a single incident or a cumulation of talking back to much. Some of the of the penalties I’ve seen paid include advancing the opposition with the ball 10m (which would be an equivalent to a 50m penalty in AFL) or sin binning them for 10 minutes (the most famous example of which was Cam Smith who was binned once for excessive backchat).

So to me the two options for changing behaviour in this space are stick with the the zero tolerance which is black and white but allows no form of dissent, or you change it too excessive dissent baring in mind that excessive is subjective and will be different for each umpire, but you increase the penalties (examples include 50m penalty regardless of who has the ball + an automatic suspension for x number of weeks or having paying a double 50m penalty). This second option does allow for some level of dissent (such as the Harris Andrews

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case), but has a level of grey that by its nature will be inconsistent. However for this option to change behaviour, you need super harsh penalties to dissuade players from pushing the boundaries in that grey area.

 

[Antzzz]

View attachment 1378760
How many 50m penalties for BT here …. The good old days when dissent was dissent !!!!

 

[GeTrain]

Personally I think this rule is going to have the opposite effect in the long term. Abuse from onlookers (particularly in local footy) is going to get a lot worse when a 50 is paid and they don't know the reason.

 

[danster168]

Can't wait until we have 50 metre penalties for eye rolls.

but thats the thing, eye rolls are just as bad as arms out. What muppet decided that arms out was more dissent than an eye roll when they both mean the same thing.

 

[Fadge]

So to me the two options for changing behaviour in this space are stick with the the zero tolerance which is black and white but allows no form of dissent, or you change it too excessive dissent baring in mind that excessive is subjective and will be different for each umpire, but you increase the penalties (examples include 50m penalty regardless of who has the ball + an automatic suspension for x number of weeks or having paying a double 50m penalty). This second option does allow for some level of dissent (such as the Harris Andrews case), but has a level of grey that by its nature will be inconsistent. However for this option to change behaviour, you need super harsh penalties to dissuade players from pushing the boundaries in that grey area.

Zero tolerance is not black and white until dissent is defined, and it is clear which actions are regarded as dissent, and which are not.

To my knowledge, dissent has not been defined in the context of this rule.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

View attachment 1378760
How many 50m penalties for BT here

That is what dissent is.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

There was always going to be an adjustment period. But at the same time, arguing with the umpires is not the sort of thing that you would miss once it’s gone. You don’t watch an incident where the players don’t argue and wish they had. The players will adjust their behaviour and the AFL will strike the right balance, but it will take some time to get there. But the reality is we don’t want to get back to where we were last year where disrespect for umpires was so blatant that people (including people in the AFL media) were arguing that what Toby Greene did last year was acceptable (especially after hearing the horrific incidents that have been happening at the lower levels that were shared after that incident when this all came to a head). And reality is part of the pain from this is because the AFL were too lenient in the past and allowed the disrespect to get out of control. If they had’ve pulled it up sooner this wouldn’t be necessary.

Robbo on 360 last night raised the NRL as a example where they do allow some talk with the umpire but they do have an excessive backchat rule, where once the umpire feels you have gone too far either by going over the top in a single incident or a cumulation of talking back to much. Some of the of the penalties I’ve seen paid include advancing the opposition with the ball 10m (which would be an equivalent to a 50m penalty in AFL) or sin binning them for 10 minutes (the most famous example of which was Cam Smith who was binned once for excessive backchat).

So to me the two options for changing behaviour in this space are stick with the the zero tolerance which is black and white but allows no form of dissent, or you change it too excessive dissent baring in mind that excessive is subjective and will be different for each umpire, but you increase the penalties (examples include 50m penalty regardless of who has the ball + an automatic suspension for x number of weeks or having paying a double 50m penalty). This second option does allow for some level of dissent (such as the Harris Andrews case), but has a level of grey that by its nature will be inconsistent. However for this option to change behaviour, you need super harsh penalties to dissuade players from pushing the boundaries in that grey area.

It can’t be any cleaner or respectful. You cannot remove emotion.
Not seen any dissent to an umpire in decades, don’t know what the issue is? Rule of the year or something?

 

[CheapCharlie]

Yep, and this is exactly where this line is blurred, and therefore the cause of all of the angst/confusion at the moment.

Is putting your arms out in posturing disbelief at a decision regarded as dissent, and how is this different to putting your hands over your eyes/front of your head in disbelief, or rolling your eyes in disbelief?

I don't see a blurred line. Rolling your eyes in disbelief would be dissent. That's the purpose of an eye roll, to show dissatisfaction.

All this arm throwing and head shaking and pointing at screens has gotten out of hand as players and coaches have tried to influence future umpiring decisions within a game.

Its such an easy fix for a player, just say nothing and move on to the next part of the game

 

[Cwp14]

Emotion is fine.
Dissent / hostility / unnecessarily remonstrating with the Ump isnt.

Learning to control your emotions when needed is part of being a functional adult

AFL football is an emotion-filled, controlled violence sport. It is not a situation in which being a functional adult falls under. It's a pressure filled environment where players making a single mistake can cause them to lose their place in the side, their standing in the team, their trust of coaches.

To give a 50m penalty (which is a massive penalty) for something as minor as throwing your hands out in frustration or slumping over in annoyance, will actually turn a game. I'd be happy with the player being fined after the game x amount of match payments, but for it to have such a huge impact on the outcome of the game is a disgrace. I'm watching the game worrying that players will remonstrate to the umpire instead of enjoying the game for what it is.

Call me a sook all you like - but so many people i know are losing love for the game because they are taking the emotion and character out of the game.