Travis Cloke - Herald Sun

[mdc]

Richo has taken more contested marks in the last 12 years than any AFL listed player.

Who says Brown is better than Richo? As individual careers go (excluding team success) Richo is about to play his 250th game and has nearly 800 goals to his name. Browny has played about 130 games for less than 250 goals, he has a LONG way to go before he is held in the same esteem as Matthew Richardson.

I'd be very surprised if anyone argued Richo>Brown. Brown's basically the only player in the league who routinely gets double and triple teamed, but even so if you look at stats from the last 4-5 years (the first 3 years Brown clearly hadn't yet fully developed), their marks and goals per game are fairly similar and Brown is well ahead on possessions, tackles etc...and this is considering he's often playing injured.

Saying Richo has more contested marks than anyone in the last 12 years is a little misleading, since he'd be one of the few forwards left who's been active for that period. I would, however, be really keen to know where you find stats like contested marks (are they freely available?).

I agree that Richo has certainly been more consistent, but when Brown is healthy it's not even close. I just hope that his career doesn't go the way of Koutafides (who, as much as we all hate Carlton, was headed for massive things before his injuries).

Back to the topic, even though we might not agree that his hands are the best right now, we can agree that he does have great hands, and at 19 is well ahead of the curve of most of the best CHF of the last 10 years

 

[ant22]

Polak has long been reegarded for his sticky mits. Freo openly said that even if they had Pick 1 in the super draft that year they would have grabbed Polak ahead of Hodge, Ball and Judd (even if thats true, I can't believe they admitted it!)

I'm merely pointing to one particular skill, and thats clean marking. Polak and Cloke along with Richo are the best 3.



I never once said he was a better player than Pav or Brown, in fact I said he wasn't. I merely said he has better hands. As for suggesting that brown gets the worst delivery in the comp, you have to be joking. He still has 3 of the Fab 5 hitting him lace out with Lappin, Black and Power getting about. Its just that now he attracts the oppositions best 3 defenders all at once!



I watch Browny play every time he plays at the Gabba, I also watch him train maybe once every two weeks. Browny is the best key forward in the game today when he is 100% fit, but thats the whole package. Cloke, Polak and Richo are all better pack marks than Browny. Much like Reiwolt, Browny built his earlier career on having the tank of a midfielder and just outlasting the big lumbering key defenders with superb hard running for a big man. Sure he can take the contested mark, but have a look at his stats, he's never been a consistent top performer in the contested marks category. His injury troubles are purely as a result of his rediculous ability for gut busting running for someone of his size, when you get away from your man so much you fall into the habit of just ketting the footy hit you on the chest, so on the odd ocassion when you're in a contested situation the bad habits settle in.

As for Browny being a hall of famer, lets not get too far ahead of ourselves. He could be gone inside 3 years with the punishment his body has taken, and he hasn't yet done enough to be in the Hall of Fame.

We obvisouly ahve very different views of j brown. Who cares if Brown has the fab 3, yes they are good players but lappin missed the first 5 or 6 and once he came in power missed about 5. As I mentioned his delivary has been better in the last few weeks(strange coincidence he is dominating again) because power came in. The fact is unless all 3 have been playing Brisbane have been incredibily slow at moving the footy and he constantly has it put on his head.

IMO Brown is the best pack mark in the comp. Richo is the only bloke who comes close IMO. You mention cloke as being a good pack mark and yet I can honeslty say I ahve never seen him take a pack mark. Can you name one for me. He takes plenty of 1 out contested marks and is an excellent contested mark but pack marks, I dont think so.

I think we will have to agree to disagree

 

[magpies42]

lets not get carried away here. to say that cloke is better then rocca is ludicrous. I will reserve my judgment to when the opposition drop 2-3 players on cloke to see how he plays then

 

[Thommo 42]

I'd be very surprised if anyone argued Richo>Brown. Brown's basically the only player in the league who routinely gets double and triple teamed, but even so if you look at stats from the last 4-5 years (the first 3 years Brown clearly hadn't yet fully developed), their marks and goals per game are fairly similar and Brown is well ahead on possessions, tackles etc...and this is considering he's often playing injured.

Saying Richo has more contested marks than anyone in the last 12 years is a little misleading, since he'd be one of the few forwards left who's been active for that period. I would, however, be really keen to know where you find stats like contested marks (are they freely available?).

I agree that Richo has certainly been more consistent, but when Brown is healthy it's not even close. I just hope that his career doesn't go the way of Koutafides (who, as much as we all hate Carlton, was headed for massive things before his injuries).

Back to the topic, even though we might not agree that his hands are the best right now, we can agree that he does have great hands, and at 19 is well ahead of the curve of most of the best CHF of the last 10 years

Obviously the 32 year old Richo isn't better than the 26 year old Brown. But the 26 year old Richo was an outstanding player, amongst the best in the competition and in my opinion, better than Brown at the same age. People forget just how good he was in the mid to late 90's. Particularly 1996 and 1999!