Environment Newsin
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NSWCROW
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^^
Devil and the deep blue sea
Devil and the deep blue sea
- Sep 6, 2005
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NSWCROW
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^^ TBF we were kinda left up the creek without a paddle after 9/11.
What i mean is the Yanks said " If ya not part of the SOLUTION........"
What i mean is the Yanks said " If ya not part of the SOLUTION........"
Papa Juggs
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Exactly why war is coming.
I for one would love to build missiles for a living. Very little has happened in rocketry and aviation since the cold war.
War fuels economic and technological progress. People are happy with the status quo in peacetime and are fearful of change.
- Apr 2, 2013
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Yes but they want a war they can win. The US have received a touch up from cave dwellers and local Iraqis who it was guessed would welcome them with flowers.
Sure they might like a regional war to keep profits flowing, one where they shock and awe and install a puppet government and collect the contracts.
A full blown world war with China and the US the major players would see either:
The US have their #$## handed to them
A long drawn out conflict like WW1 or 2 with loss of life on a scale not seen before
Nukes detonated
A clear immediate win to the US won't happen. If anything China start favourites.
The Chinese are desperate for resources and the hardliners would fancy their chances of taking them and want the opportunity to flex their muscle and gain revenge for perceived and real injustices going back hundreds of years. But China can't afford to make enemies right now. Their economy is still developing and not yet fully furnished so they don't need embargoes, sanctions or a massive war %###&& it up. Also internal unrest if a heap of their disenfranchised are slaughtered could undo them from the inside. If anything they may just wait for the US to implode before consolidating their empire.
As for Australia. A large land mass and a small population mean we are at the mercy of international conditions and need allies. While Australia is a large mass and difficult to invade we lack critical mass so could be vulnerable.
I would be stunned if this wasn't happening already but Australia need to use her wealth of uranium, raw materials and science capacities to nuke up. Preferably with a large stash. No need to be as stupid as North Korea and Iran and start grandstanding and threatening all and sundry. Simply finish the product wave em round when finished, tell the US we are done with their wars and any hostiles that even dream of invading for our resources we will deal with.
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Sorry, but this thread is idiotic.
1. The USA, still, economically, militarily, and ideationally, dwarfs any other nation in the world (seriously, the annual USA defence budget is as big as their next few rivals combined). The USA still holds all the structural power, and knocking out the existing Post-WWII liberal order will be almost impossible.
2. There is absolutely no evidence of China gaining territory in the last 100 years or so. Infact, their rhetoric, 'charm offensive', etc, has been entirely based around harmonious hegemony/regional leadership. China do not wish to invade anywhere, that is completely against everything China have said and done in the last century.
3. China increasingly owns more and more of our resources mining sector. We cant extract to meet their demand, so they were allowed to come in and set up operations to meet that demand. They are investing more and more.
4. The recent non-proliferation failures between USA-DPRK are still defining, not some perceived increased security presence of the USA. Late in Bush's tenure, he had a decent opportunity to end the DPRK nuclear threat, but screwed that up.
5. Can you imagine governing a country with over 1 billion people? Westerners are somewhat unqualified to imagine such a task. In such a situation, domestic issues are far more prominent and an immediate threat to the government. PRC's foreign policy is still evolving. The biggest threat to PRC (and CCP) will always be at home, as well as they have generally handled the country since Deng was welcomed back in the mid 70s.
6. Australia opening nuclear programs is unacceptable. India is the only western to get away with that in recent times, and that is because they are an ambitious country and have the Pakistani threat on their doorstep.
7. While DPRK are provokers, they are one of the lesser flashpoints in the region.
8. The China economy is still highly dependent on the United States (Japan is also highly dependent for them as well). Any war-like behaviour between China and Japan (or US directly) is ridiculous.
9. Realist (pessimist) IR experts believe in the inevitability of hegemonic conflict. But this is the 21st century, and China has its own special characteristics compared to previous hegemonic empires. China will not yield to outside pressure, but at this stage has given no sign of exerting their power, except in dubious east/south china sea disputes with some justification.
If a China-US war ever eventuates (would be very dumb), frankly, I hope China comes out the better. US Foreign Policy needs to be better, and if it cant prevent a stupid conflict, it deserves it.
Imo, Australia should no.1 focus on security alliances with ASEAN, and increased economic ties with Indonesia. Indonesia really needs to be our major economic & security partner, it's about time we started to work that out. China and India will always be major trading partners anyway. Australia-ASEAN would be virtually safe against anything, focus on regional alliance.
Come 2050, there will possibly be an interesting trio of India, China & US on relatively equal terms. All 3 countries need to be looking ahead to that date, and preparing for how the 3 hegemonies can coexist together. That is the more pressing issue than another bout of silliness from DPRK.
1. The USA, still, economically, militarily, and ideationally, dwarfs any other nation in the world (seriously, the annual USA defence budget is as big as their next few rivals combined). The USA still holds all the structural power, and knocking out the existing Post-WWII liberal order will be almost impossible.
2. There is absolutely no evidence of China gaining territory in the last 100 years or so. Infact, their rhetoric, 'charm offensive', etc, has been entirely based around harmonious hegemony/regional leadership. China do not wish to invade anywhere, that is completely against everything China have said and done in the last century.
3. China increasingly owns more and more of our resources mining sector. We cant extract to meet their demand, so they were allowed to come in and set up operations to meet that demand. They are investing more and more.
4. The recent non-proliferation failures between USA-DPRK are still defining, not some perceived increased security presence of the USA. Late in Bush's tenure, he had a decent opportunity to end the DPRK nuclear threat, but screwed that up.
5. Can you imagine governing a country with over 1 billion people? Westerners are somewhat unqualified to imagine such a task. In such a situation, domestic issues are far more prominent and an immediate threat to the government. PRC's foreign policy is still evolving. The biggest threat to PRC (and CCP) will always be at home, as well as they have generally handled the country since Deng was welcomed back in the mid 70s.
6. Australia opening nuclear programs is unacceptable. India is the only western to get away with that in recent times, and that is because they are an ambitious country and have the Pakistani threat on their doorstep.
7. While DPRK are provokers, they are one of the lesser flashpoints in the region.
8. The China economy is still highly dependent on the United States (Japan is also highly dependent for them as well). Any war-like behaviour between China and Japan (or US directly) is ridiculous.
9. Realist (pessimist) IR experts believe in the inevitability of hegemonic conflict. But this is the 21st century, and China has its own special characteristics compared to previous hegemonic empires. China will not yield to outside pressure, but at this stage has given no sign of exerting their power, except in dubious east/south china sea disputes with some justification.
If a China-US war ever eventuates (would be very dumb), frankly, I hope China comes out the better. US Foreign Policy needs to be better, and if it cant prevent a stupid conflict, it deserves it.
Imo, Australia should no.1 focus on security alliances with ASEAN, and increased economic ties with Indonesia. Indonesia really needs to be our major economic & security partner, it's about time we started to work that out. China and India will always be major trading partners anyway. Australia-ASEAN would be virtually safe against anything, focus on regional alliance.
Come 2050, there will possibly be an interesting trio of India, China & US on relatively equal terms. All 3 countries need to be looking ahead to that date, and preparing for how the 3 hegemonies can coexist together. That is the more pressing issue than another bout of silliness from DPRK.
Have to say i agree,
I just dont see why anyone other than a dictator would be at all interested in starting large scale wars.
Who ever is behind the weapons industries will always be keen on this i imagine but do they want a large world based conflict or are they happy pushing only small scale, middle eastern and african conflicts.
The whole USA/China conspiracy theory just doesnt sit with me, neither are stupid enough to start a meaningful war against each other unless the other pushes them, and even then i dont know what would justify a war of the scale mentioned.
Large world based wars are just not feasible, what is the net gain behind invading large portions of the world?
Poseidon
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Is it WW3 yet? How long have we been on the brink?
Papa Juggs
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Been on the brink since tanks started rolling through Iraq without the consent of the UN.
In peaceful western countries like ours such things are a million miles away. Some of our young men have died in the middle east now, spilling their blood to crush the muslims and take their natural resources like oil and poppy seed.
Papa Juggs
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This is the acceleration of the new world order. Europe was not ready to unite. Not many places are. Just sharing some land borders isn't enough of a good reason. At least not when you force people into poverty and starvation.
Look out for the US government.....
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The Chinese have massed an army near the border.
If anything happens they'd send their army in and introduce a more obediant regime.
If anything happens they'd send their army in and introduce a more obediant regime.
The_Answer3
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- Oct 3, 2012
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No-one wants a war with China.
So, what happened with this?? Haven't seen anything in the news for a while.
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I admit I have been pretty busy with work and a baby but news of this just seemed to stop.
Papa Juggs
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World domination takes time. Even generations.
We're currently being spoonfed the sad stories about Syria so we (the west) support a full scale invasion. Then the Iran phase of this middle east crusade can begin.
We're currently being spoonfed the sad stories about Syria so we (the west) support a full scale invasion. Then the Iran phase of this middle east crusade can begin.
