Arsenal FC: Out of control

[Gus Poyet]

And you sound like delusional wannker.

Coming from you, that makes me a top bloke.

Cry baby.

 

[Cooldude]

They have responsibility to pay wages, debts and any interest first and foremost. Also a responsibility to intenral shareholders before exteernal ones.



Except in this case they are actually providing you with a state of the art facility and players wages at around 140 million.

No, they have a responsibility to make sure the football team is performing to the best of their abilities on and off the pitch, the football team makes them the money to pay wages or whatever, and therefore should appropriately invest that money back into the playing squad for greater success, not putting 200 million in the bank.

Do they? I don't know their business plan or models.

A fans expectations mean nothing when it comes to player budgets.

So you just admitted to knowing sweet FA about their situation but am so willing to offer an opinion on what they should do, are you crazy?

Of course it does, they invest a huge amount of money in the club, and if the club is in a position to spend that money and they don't, why shouldn't their expectation count? You sound just like a tyrant.

I'm not dodging it. How about you think first.

Dropping down to League One or winning the League Cup. Gee, what's going to have the biggest financial effect on the club?

Oh wait that's right, it will be spending a whole season with a player wage structure set for the Championship in a lower league with smaller crowds and far, far less income coming in.

But hey, that's OK. we have this cup here that really doesn't mean much these days.




Wrong part of the political compass. Try again.

You are ******* crazy if you're seriously gonna choose not being relegated over a trophy, the Brum fans whom I've talked to would disagree with you for starterss, it's official, you're ******* insane

Here's another one, how about the Wigan fans, the FA Cup or not being relegated, yet another no ******* brainer there, unless it's you

 

[Gus Poyet]

No, they have a responsibility to make sure the football team is performing to the best of their abilities on and off the pitch, the football team makes them the money to pay wages or whatever, and therefore should appropriately invest that money back into the playing squad for greater success, not putting 200 million in the bank.

That's your interpretation of it.

That's not how it works I'm afraid. Maybe in the old days of footbal when the owners were fans of the club.

Hey I used to like those days way back when this was how it was.

However as soon as you have owners who have no traditional links to the club or fans, well then it becomes a business.

Greed is a big part of the game now, on and off the field.

So you just admitted to knowing sweet FA about their situation but am so willing to offer an opinion on what they should do, are you crazy?

Of course it does, they invest a huge amount of money in the club, and if the club is in a position to spend that money and they don't, why shouldn't their expectation count? You sound just like a tyrant.

How much have the owners invested in the business?

You are ******* crazy if you're seriously gonna choose not being relegated over a trophy, the Brum fans whom I've talked to would disagree with you for starterss, it's official, you're ******* insane

Your mentality is the very reason so many clubs have gone to the wall. Lets chase the glory and worry about the financial state of the club later on.

You really are cluess when it comes to the financial repurcusions of a team being relegated.

Go ask Wolves fans if they'd rather have won a trophy or avoided relegation into League One.

 

[Cooldude]

That's your interpretation of it.

That's not how it works I'm afraid. Maybe in the old days of footbal when the owners were fans of the club.

Hey I used to like those days way back when this was how it was.

However as soon as you have owners who have no traditional links to the club or fans, well then it becomes a business.

Greed is a big part of the game now, on and off the field.

Your argument is completely schizophrenic, so you were criticising Arsenal for making the Premier League what it is today with these sorta big money s**t, yet now you are ENDORSING a club being run like that. You are absolutely making no sense, whatsoever, is your star sign Gemini, coz it's like I'm talking to two different blokes

It's not my interpretation of it, it's how a football club definitely should be run, I'm sorry if you feel like justifying that it's okay to run a football club purely to make money, when a few mins ago you criticised Arsenal for making it that way. It's not insane, at all

How much have the owners invested in the business?

Far, far less than what they're now making off it annually, it's an absolute cash cow, which is why the fans aren't happy, but you ain't buying that argument, of course

Your mentality is the very reason so many clubs have gone to the wall. Lets chase the glory and worry about the financial state of the club later on.

You really are cluess when it comes to the financial repurcusions of a team being relegated.

Go ask Wolves fans if they'd rather have won a trophy or avoided relegation into League One.

No, this mentality is exactly why everyone ******* support football. I'm beginning to wonder if you actually like this sport at all

You are clueless when it comes to WHY someone ******* loves football and support a football club, these fans who otherwise wouldn't see their team win a trophy in their life time, and they actually won one, and you s**t all over it by some skewed, ****ed up reasoning and say you'd rather not win anything and not be relegated.

Do you just study football as part of your business and finance degree or do you actually, ya know, love football? Coz you're talking like a ******* accountant rather than a football fan

Btw I have talked to fans like that, ya know the Wigan and Brum ones, they all said they'd much rather the trophy, so stick that up your alternate universe, face reality for once

 

[moomba]

Poyet, no one is suggesting that Arsenal jeopardise their future by spending money they dont have.

Until you realise that youre arguing against a point no-one is trying to make.

And if you dont know Arsenals circumstances, maybe do some research or avoid slagging those Arsensl supporters that are more informed

 

[Gus Poyet]

Your argument is completely schizophrenic, so you were criticising Arsenal for making the Premier League what it is today with these sorta big money s**t, yet now you are ENDORSING a club being run like that. You are absolutely making no sense, whatsoever, is your star sign Gemini, coz it's like I'm talking to two different blokes

Ah, you reap what you sow.

Not that hard to comprehend.

It's not my interpretation of it, it's how a football club definitely should be run, I'm sorry if you feel like justifying that it's okay to run a football club purely to make money, when a few mins ago you criticised Arsenal for making it that way. It's not insane, at all

That is your interpretation of it.

I'm not saying either way how it should be run. That's up to the owners.

Far, far less than what they're now making off it annually, it's an absolute cash cow, which is why the fans aren't happy, but you ain't buying that argument, of course

So it was a good business investment then.

No, this mentality is exactly why everyone ******* support football. I'm beginning to wonder if you actually like this sport at all

Ah no it's not. Go and survey 1000 Brighton fans and ask if they value club security over winning a trophy.

I know which % will be far higher.

You are clueless when it comes to WHY someone ******* loves football and support a football club, these fans who otherwise wouldn't see their team win a trophy in their life time, and they actually won one, and you s**t all over it bysome skewed, ****** up reasoning and say you'd rather not win anything and not be relegated.

Actually you are.

Some fans have never seen their team win a trophy. Yet some of the happiest days of their years following their club have been last day avoiding relegation.

Have you even seen fans emotions when they get relegated? Obviously not sitting in your Ivory tower.

Just to let you know. They are devastated by being relegated.

Do you just study football as part of your business and finance degree or do you actually, ya know, love football? Coz you're talking like a ******* accountant rather than a football fan

Maybe that's because with the FFP rules coming in clubs have to think like an accountant. You obviously have no ******* idea about the implications of this on clubs.

Btw I have talked to fans like that, ya know the Wigan and Brum ones, they all said they'd much rather the trophy, so stick that up your alternate universe, face reality for once

Well I've spoken to Pompey, Saints, Wendy, Leeds fans who were shattered when they went down to League One.

You talk to your moronic glory chasers and I'll talk to people who actually have a clue about the ramifications of relegation on a team.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Poyet, no one is suggesting that Arsenal jeopardise their future by spending money they dont have.

Until you realise that youre arguing against a point no-one is trying to make.

And if you dont know Arsenals circumstances, maybe do some research or avoid slagging those Arsensl supporters that are more informed

Actually I'm not suggesting that Arsenal will ever be in jeopardy. That was more in reposnse to that fool saying winning a trophy is preferable to relegation.

I actually think Arsenal are one of the more finacially repsonsible clubs going around.

Arsenal's circumstances are simple. Their owner wants to make tonnes of money off them.

Are fans getting bang for their buck? Depends. Finishing 3rd or 4th in the PL is a good return on a ST. Anything more is a bouns.

Unless i'm conversing with actual paid up season ticket holders of Arsenal then I really don't see they have anything to complain about.

Maybe the fan in the youtube does, but not stay at home fans in Australia.

 

[Cooldude]

Ah, you reap what you sow.

Not that hard to comprehend.

So you've just been caught with your pants down looking like a hypocrite, so now you're just going for the spiteful personal jab at Arsenal instead of anything inherently logical and reasonable? Sounds just like you

That is your interpretation of it.

I'm not saying either way how it should be run. That's up to the owners.

There's no interpretation, that's just how football is, if you don't understand it, then I'm sorry that you don't really like football deep down

So it was a good business investment then.

Or practically robbing off those who actually make it the efficient money making business that it is, and it's the fans.

You're a ******* two faced hypocritical campaigner who changes your opinion and stance every 3 minutes.

Ah no it's not. Go and survey 1000 Brighton fans and ask if they value club security over winning a trophy.

I know which % will be far higher.

Wait, is this survey just gonna be answered by you? Coz we all sure as heck know your ******* answer.

I've talked to those who actually won one and valued it over relegation, but of course you aren't gonna face reality when it doesn't suit you, keep paddling your miserable bullshit all you want, it's not gonna make it true coz you repeat it so often

Actually you are.

Some fans have never seen their team win a trophy. Yet some of the happiest days of their years following their club have been last day avoiding relegation.

Have you even seen fans emotions when they get relegated? Obviously not sitting in your Ivory tower.

Just to let you know. They are devastated by being relegated.

Yet again you are ******* ignoring the Brum and Wigan question, those fans were happier winning the trophy than anything else, and many of them actually DID choose the trophy ahead of relegation. Have you ever seen those fans' emotions when they won the FA/League Cup? Of ******* course you didn't, coz you're too busy being a miserable bastard rather than actually ya know, enjoy football

Just to let you know, they are elated that they won their trophies, and a lot of those whom I talked to would much rather win the trophy. But keep being in denial over that, you bullshitting miserable bastard

Maybe that's because with the FFP rules coming in clubs have to think like an accountant. You obviously have no ******* idea about the implications of this on clubs.

You obviously have no ******* idea how useless FFP is really gonna be if you just look around about it a little bit. You're talking contradictory nonsense, again and again and again

Well I've spoken to Pompey, Saints, Wendy, Leeds fans who were shattered when they went down to League One.

You talk to your moronic glory chasers and I'll talk to people who actually have a clue about the ramifications of relegation on a team.

Wait wait wait, why doesn't the you reap what you sow argument apply to Leeds? If anything it is most apt on them, you are a hypocrite

You are still dodging it, I'll bet ya if you ask fans whether you'd prefer a trophy or stay up, most of them would say a trophy. But of course you think that's moronic glory hunting but it's actually ya know, why people follow football

You keep dodging the Brum and Wigan question but of course you have to, coz it'd otherwise make you look stupider than you already make yourself look

 

[moomba]

Actually I'm not suggesting that Arsenal will ever be in jeopardy. That was more in reposnse to that fool saying winning a trophy is preferable to relegation.

I actually think Arsenal are one of the more finacially repsonsible clubs going around.

Arsenal's circumstances are simple. Their owner wants to make tonnes of money off them.

Are fans getting bang for their buck? Depends. Finishing 3rd or 4th in the PL is a good return on a ST. Anything more is a bouns.

Unless i'm conversing with actual paid up season ticket holders of Arsenal then I really don't see they have anything to complain about.

Maybe the fan in the youtube does, but not stay at home fans in Australia.

Thats where you dont really have a comprehension of football supporters and their passion for their clubs and their mentality.

But I kind of knew that anyway.

 

[Gus Poyet]

So you've just been caught with your pants down looking like a hypocrite, so now you're just going for the spiteful personal jab at Arsenal instead of anything inherently logical and reasonable? Sounds just like you

Ah no once again.

When you create a league based on greed and benefit from it greatly you really can't complain when the greed screw you over.

There's no interpretation, that's just how football is, if you don't understand it, then I'm sorry that you don't really like football deep down

There's plenty of interpretations in football. That's why clubs are run differently.

Or practically robbing off those who actually make it the efficient money making business that it is, and it's the fans.

You're a ******* two faced hypocritical silly who changes your opinion and stance every 3 minutes.

Gee, you mustn't have experience much of real life. You're getting fleeced every day in every way.

Wait, is this survey just gonna be answered by you? Coz we all sure as heck know your ******* answer.

I've talked to those who actually won one and valued it over relegation, but of course you aren't gonna face reality when it doesn't suit you, keep paddling your miserable bullshit all you want, it's not gonna make it true coz you repeat it so often

12 year old bullshit is what you peddle.

You have absolutely * all idea about the s**t some fans go through with their clubs.

Seriously what the hell would a Liverpool fan know about the experiences of a Plymouth fan?

A crappy trophy over survival, GGF.

Yet again you are ******* ignoring the Brum and Wigan question, those fans were happier winning the trophy than anything else, and many of them actually DID choose the trophy ahead of relegation. Have you ever seen those fans' emotions when they won the FA/League Cup? Of ******* course you didn't, coz you're too busy being a miserable bastard rather than actually ya know, enjoy football

You're a thick one.

FFP, go read up on it. Understand the implications of it.

Any moron who takes a bit of glory over their clubs long term future is a moron. No wonder you talk to people who choose the short term glory path.

Just to let you know, they are elated that they won their trophies, and a lot of those whom I talked to would much rather win the trophy. But keep being in denial over that, you bullshitting miserable bastard

Glory hunters, like a lot of PL fans.

You obviously have no ******* idea how useless FFP is really gonna be if you just look around about it a little bit. You're talking contradictory nonsense, again and again and again

Actually it's going to effect the clubs in the lower leagues quite a bit. Understandly a PL muppet of a club it won't effect is unable to grasp its implications.

Wait wait wait, why doesn't the you reap what you sow argument apply to Leeds? If anything it is most apt on them, you are a hypocrite

Never met a Leeds fan? They finally realised once their club came crashing down what happens when you piss money up against a wall chasing trophies.

None of them would deny they didn't reep what they sowed.

Are you suggesting they they won't agree they got what they deserved?

You are still dodging it, I'll bet ya if you ask fans whether you'd prefer a trophy or stay up, most of them would say a trophy. But of course you think that's moronic glory hunting but it's actually ya know, why people follow football

Yes I expect in your 12 year old mates circle they would.

You keep dodging the Brum and Wigan question but of course you have to, coz it'd otherwise make you look stupider than you already make yourself look

There's no point with you, you're a 12 year old PL trophy chaser.

You have no concept of fans outside the PL. even when you pretend you do you lie about it.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Thats where you dont really have a comprehension of football supporters and their passion for their clubs and their mentality.

But I kind of knew that anyway.

I understand their mentality just fine.

I just don't think they realise the game has changed. It's not what it once was.

Their old school passion does not mesh with new school bottom business mentality.

The Jack Walker's of the game are slowly disappearing, replaced by Donald Trump like men looking to cash in on one of the worlds biggest cash cows.

 

[Stratton_Gun]

 

[moomba]

I understand their mentality just fine.

I just don't think they realise the game has changed. It's not what it once was.

Their old school passion does not mesh with new school bottom business mentality.

The Jack Walker's of the game are slowly disappearing, replaced by Donald Trump like men looking to cash in on one of the worlds biggest cash cows.

Why should supporters just sit back and accept change if it isnt in the interests of the club they love?

 

[moomba]

Ah no once again.

When you create a league based on greed and benefit from it greatly you really can't complain when the greed screw you over.

I didnt realise Arsenal supporters created the premier league.

 

[iluvparis]

I thought this was going to be an enlightened discussion of the problems/situation that the Gunners find themselves in. Turns out I walked into a car crash...

...WTF

 

[Latro]

Kroenke would want the team to be the best it can be so his share price goes up. The increase in share price since his takeover means he has a profit of around 250 million pounds. Money in bank is not what he is after or he would of taken a dividend at some point. Gazidis and the board want Wenger to spend to improve the team. The new commercial deals will have links to getting in name players.

The real problem is Kroenke lets Wenger run the football side totally. Wenger does not go through the CEO but directly to the owner.

On the weekend a quarter of the executive boxes were empty. That was not happening 2 or 3 years a go. They will not be completely sold until the team has proper investment again.

 

[Cooldude]

Ah no once again.

When you create a league based on greed and benefit from it greatly you really can't complain when the greed screw you over.

WTF, you're talking like greed and benefit is a bad thing, yet you've been the one ENDORSING IT the entire time, you are insane, I'm convinced you're insane.

There's plenty of interpretations in football. That's why clubs are run differently.

So I can buy a club and placed that entirely on the club's debt, then squeeze so much money outta the club that it almost goes into administration,, then complain when we were forced to sell it to someone we don't wanna sell it to, at a price you don't agree with, and that would just be "an intrepretation"

You're talking more and more bullshit as you go

Gee, you mustn't have experience much of real life. You're getting fleeced every day in every way.

This is football, it's different from real life, and that's precisely why people support football, that's why people watch football, but don't let that bother ya, you don't understand or like football deep down anyway, judging from what you've been saying

12 year old bullshit is what you peddle.

You have absolutely **** all idea about the s**t some fans go through with their clubs.

Seriously what the hell would a Liverpool fan know about the experiences of a Plymouth fan?

A crappy trophy over survival, GGF.

It's not bullshit, it's reality, I'm peddling reality, but that doesn't suit your bullshit, so you're calling reality bullshit and calling your bullshit reality. I see how this is working

I'm giving you real opinions of real fans who have been in those situations, but you refuse to accept it, because that doesn't sort your personal tall poppy agenda. Keep covering your ears and going lalala, it's not gonna change it. Keep making snide tall poppy stabs, it's not gonna change it

You're a thick one.

FFP, go read up on it. Understand the implications of it.

Any moron who takes a bit of glory over their clubs long term future is a moron. No wonder you talk to people who choose the short term glory path.

I have, and I understand it, but it appears you don't. And of course they'd be morons, coz they're actual football supporters, I don't know what the * you are, some miserable obsessive compulsive man who just stumbled on this sport and starts giving your crazy opinion, yeah that sounds like it

Glory hunters, like a lot of PL fans.

I'm sorry all those crazy football fans out there of all clubs who enjoyed a trophy out there is offending your principles of "* that trophy we just won", geez not even football fans those people

Actually it's going to effect the clubs in the lower leagues quite a bit. Understandly a PL muppet of a club it won't effect is unable to grasp its implications..

Coming from a man who doesn't even understand the very basics of football as a sport

Never met a Leeds fan? They finally realised once their club came crashing down what happens when you piss money up against a wall chasing trophies.

None of them would deny they didn't reep what they sowed.

Are you suggesting they they won't agree they got what they deserved?

No, I just wouldn't tell someone to look at those poor Leeds fans and ask them how they feel when they got relegated, and yet at the same time say Arsenal's reaping what they sow. Ya know, coz I don't wanna look like a crazy hypocrite talking two faced non-sense and having double standards.

Yes I expect in your 12 year old mates circle they would.

If those fans are 12 then you are a foetus.

There's no point with you, you're a 12 year old PL trophy chaser.

You have no concept of fans outside the PL. even when you pretend you do you lie about it.

The only one lying and being in denial over it is you, but don't worry, keep locking your mind in this crazy demented logic you've entrapped yourself in, don't have to face any reality

 

[moomba]

Kroenke would want the team to be the best it can be so his share price goes up. The increase in share price since his takeover means he has a profit of around 250 million pounds. Money in bank is not what he is after or he would of taken a dividend at some point. Gazidis and the board want Wenger to spend to improve the team. The new commercial deals will have links to getting in name players.

The real problem is Kroenke lets Wenger run the football side totally. Wenger does not go through the CEO but directly to the owner.

On the weekend a quarter of the executive boxes were empty. That was not happening 2 or 3 years a go. They will not be completely sold until the team has proper investment again.

Money in the bank increase the value of the club to a buyer which increases the share price.

Only other possibility for me is that they're hoarding acorns in the hope/expectation that FFP is going to stop the likes of City/Chelsea (Arsenal led the lobby for premier league FFP rules to come in).

 

[Latro]

That increase in the value is calculated when he bought shares a month a go. If a takeover was launched it would be much higher.

 

[sabre_ac]

I'd love to read an article that breaks down Arsenal's finances, with an analysis on transfer net spend, costs to service debt and investment over a decent period of time.

You can't put too much faith in the complaints of some grass root supporters who don't have an understanding of how corporations are run and are looking around at the "Billionaire pastime" clubs.

The ultimate truth clearly sits somewhere between a supporter base struggling to face reality and owners only looking after themselves.

 

[moomba]

I'd love to read an article that breaks down Arsenal's finances, with an analysis on transfer net spend, costs to service debt and investment over a decent period of time.

You can't put too much faith in the complaints of some grass root supporters who don't have an understanding of how corporations are run and are looking around at the "Billionaire pastime" clubs.

The ultimate truth clearly sits somewhere between a supporter base struggling to face reality and owners only looking after themselves.

Google swiss ramble. Has done some excellent stuff on arsenal (and other clubs).

 

[jod23]

As a Liverpool fan, I cant pretend that im not happy about what is going on over at Arsenal. It just gives us a bigger chance of getting back into the top 4.

Arsenal in the end will be ok though and no doubt finish 4th.

 

[Gus Poyet]

And btw, go ask the Birmingham fans whether they would rather avoid relegation and not win that League Cup they won, or avoid relegation and win nothing. I can ******* bet my life that it'd be the trophy, every football fan wants to win trophies, my friend, whichever club you're at, and if Arsenal's capable of winning it, then why shouldn't they be unhappy when they can't due to problems inhouse?

You just died then.

Here's a survey of Brighton fans asking would they rather win the League Cup or avoid relegation.

http://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?285281-A-trophy-or-avoid-relegation

61 Brighton fans voted on your assertion of what's more important.

A resounding 78% said they'd rather avoid relegation than win a cup.

Do you now accept your view on football fans is not an accurate one?

 

[Cruyff14]

cross#4 maybe you can take Gus Poyet with you over to Tribal Football with GB.

 

[Ashton Agar]

Arsene Wenger will be gone before seasons end I reckon