Bruce Francis

[Chameleon75]

ASADA's own evidence shows Dr Hooper stating that it was a 'multi vitamin amino acid mix'. He stated that there was nothing on the labelling to suggest that it was TB4.

don't you think it's odd that the muscular dystrophy patient travels all the way to Mexico to purchase something he could get from the local health food store.

 

[hfchfc]

I can’t accept that anyone would convict innocent players just to ensure you caught a guilty player. Our legal system has never operated that way and hopefully never will.

I agree with this sentiment. Unless the tribunal is sure that each and everyone of the 34 players took TB4, they should not all be pronounced guilty just to make sure they have caught the guilty party. Mr Francis is quite correct that our legal system has never worked that way.

Unless ASADA can identify the specific players who used TB4 (with actual evidence rather than guesswork), then they must all be acquitted.

 

[Gavstar]

Clearest lie in this whole saga is that Alavi didn't know what he was compounding.

A close second would be someone buying a multi vitamin amino acid mix on the tex-Mex border for a muscular disorder.

Though perhaps the amino acids were polymerized into something more effective such as WADA banned substances.

 

[Apex Predators]

I can’t accept that anyone would convict innocent players just to ensure you caught a guilty player. Our legal system has never operated that way and hopefully never will.

I agree with this sentiment. Unless the tribunal is sure that each and everyone of the 34 players took TB4, they should not all be pronounced guilty just to make sure they have caught the guilty party. Mr Francis is quite correct that our legal system has never worked that way.

Unless ASADA can identify the specific players who used TB4 (with actual evidence rather than guesswork), then they must all be acquitted.

So your post is conceding guilt on the part of some of the players hey GG. So how many of the players do you think took TB4.

Assuming you are right and guilt can't be proven against the specific players, you seem to be suggesting that there is evidence at least that Essendon introduced TB4 to its players. Given the club only previously received sanctions for poor governance, what do you think would be fair punishment to the club for doping its players (even if we don't know who). De-registration (players to enter draft after this season), fines exponentially higher than last time, Hird out on his behind, stripped of draft selections until the next coming?

 

[LoungeLizard]

ASADA's own evidence shows Dr Hooper stating that it was a 'multi vitamin amino acid mix'. He stated that there was nothing on the labelling to suggest that it was TB4.

But you see GG we don't know if ASADA are using this as evidence do we?
We don't know what ASADA are putting on the table, neither does your good friend Bruce.

 

[Magruder]

So your post is conceding guilt on the part of some of the players hey GG. So how many of the players do you think took TB4.

Assuming you are right and guilt can't be proven against the specific players, you seem to be suggesting that there is evidence that Essendon introduced TB4 to its players. Given the club has only previously had sanctions for poor governance, what do you think would be fair punishment to the club in the circumstances that it administered prohibited substances to its players (even if we don't know who). De-registration (players to enter draft after this season), fines exponentially higher than last time, Hird out on his behind, stripped of draft selections until the next coming?

All of the above.

 

[Gavstar]

I can’t accept that anyone would convict innocent players just to ensure you caught a guilty player. Our legal system has never operated that way and hopefully never will.

I agree with this sentiment. Unless the tribunal is sure that each and everyone of the 34 players took TB4, they should not all be pronounced guilty just to make sure they have caught the guilty party. Mr Francis is quite correct that our legal system has never worked that way.

Unless ASADA can identify the specific players who used TB4 (with actual evidence rather than guesswork), then they must all be acquitted.

I agree ASADA must have sufficient evidence of which players took the banned substance, those for whom this evidence exist doesn't should not be suspended.

For example those identified as taking a banned drug by person(s) providing substantial assistance to ASADA would be suspended while those who were not identified get off.

 

[teknodeejay]

All in favor of banning the mention of this crackpot Bruce Francis say I

 

[blue harvest]

ASADA's own evidence shows Dr Hooper stating that it was a 'multi vitamin amino acid mix'. He stated that there was nothing on the labelling to suggest that it was TB4.

You mean the Dr Hooper (is he still allowed to call himself that?) who was struck off for 2 years for ripping off a disabled patient?

 

[Demon in Hell]

It's John Pierik's turn now.

Bouncer apologies for lurking again, but I like your site. Beats BB hands down.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

What Bruce doesn't say is that there is no such drug called "Thymosin". It is an abbreviated way of saying a few drugs. However, since Dank injected it and Alavi reconstituted it, both refer to thymosin beta 4 as "thymosin" on their respective websites.
https://mrcpeptides.com.au/buy_thymosin_6_17.html (link is on side of page THYMOSIN)
https://www.peptideclinics.com.au/peptide-products/buy-thymosin-beta-4-australia/quality/

So, to a comfortable level of satisfaction, "thymosin" means thymosin beta 4.

Edit: TB4 is also known as thymosin in the gym and body building industries.

 

[Gigantor]

One thing is for sure: right through the so-called supply chain, despite an abundance of documentation, none of it uses the label: Thymosin Beta 4. None. The term is never used once.

We also know that ASADA has documentation from the chinese supplier which distinguishes between "Thymosin" and "Thymosin Beta 4".

In fact, there is an email where the supplier says to Charter: "I can't supply Thymosin Beta 4 but I can supply Thymosin".

So there is at least one supplier which uses the term "thymosin" to mean something different to "Thymosin Beta 4."

But it doesn't end there.

Right across SE Asia, there are suppliers who refer to Thymomodulin as "Thymosin (Thymomodulin)".

But that's not all.

Any number of searches will indicate that people in the industry regularly use the terms "Thymomodulin" and "Thymosin Alpha 1" interchangeably (rightly or wrongly).

Finally, at the risk of stating the obvious, but just because MRC's Web administrator uses the word "Thymosin" as a link to a page which happens to market Thymosin Beta 4 to the general public is hardly evidence of any EFC player having used TB4 (let alone all 34).

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I'd laugh if the tribunal read out 'Not Guilty', then come back the next day and tell everyone they actually meant to say 'Guilty' but just made a mistake and ask them all not to mention the embarrassing gaffe.

 

[boncer34]

It's John Pierik's turn now.

Bouncer apologies for lurking again, but I like your site. Beats BB hands down.

It's Boncer

But seriously go nuts. If you guys think you're the only ones enjoying Bruce then you're mistaking.

 

[jenny61_99]

It's Boncer

But seriously go nuts. If you guys think you're the only ones enjoying Bruce then you're mistaking.

Mistaking what?

 

[Cronos]

One thing is for sure: right through the so-called supply chain, despite an abundance of documentation, none of it uses the label: Thymosin Beta 4. None. The term is never used once.

We also know that ASADA has documentation from the chinese supplier which distinguishes between "Thymosin" and "Thymosin Beta 4"..

We also know the same supplier has stated that the only Thymosin they synthesised or supplied was Thymosin Beta 4.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

One thing is for sure: right through the so-called supply chain, despite an abundance of documentation, none of it uses the label: Thymosin Beta 4. None. The term is never used once.

We also know that ASADA has documentation from the chinese supplier which distinguishes between "Thymosin" and "Thymosin Beta 4".

In fact, there is an email where the supplier says to Charter: "I can't supply Thymosin Beta 4 but I can supply Thymosin".

So there is at least one supplier which uses the term "thymosin" to mean something different to "Thymosin Beta 4."

But it doesn't end there.

Right across SE Asia, there are suppliers who refer to Thymomodulin as "Thymosin (Thymomodulin)".

But that's not all.

Any number of searches will indicate that people in the industry regularly use the terms "Thymomodulin" and "Thymosin Alpha 1" interchangeably (rightly or wrongly).

Finally, at the risk of stating the obvious, but just because MRC's Web administrator uses the word "Thymosin" as a link to a page which happens to market Thymosin Beta 4 to the general public is hardly evidence of any EFC player having used TB4 (let alone all 34).

In its summary of evidence provided to lawyers for the players, ASADA quotes Mr Charter as saying he only imported Thymosin Beta-4 from China. This was supported by Mr Xu when he told The Australian: “The Thymosin we synthesis (sic) and supply always refers to Thymosin Beta-4.’’

We don't care what other companies say. We are interested in GL Biochem and Mr Xu stated this to The Australian.

So stop with this BS that Dank used thymosin alpha 1. This is only used in very sick individuals. It is not a drug given to healthy athletes. It is not a drug that would be the cornerstone of a supplement program. Add that to the fact GL Biochem doesn't sell thymomodulin and you'd have to be an idiot to think that the thymosin obtained from GL Biochem and given to the Essendon players is anything other than thymosin beta 4.

 

[Laphroaig]

Moved on to outright fabrication now, have we?

One thing is for sure: right through the so-called supply chain, despite an abundance of documentation, none of it uses the label: Thymosin Beta 4. None. The term is never used once.

Bullshit. Both TB4 and Hexarelin appear on invoices to Essendon football club. Including the documentation that Dank attempted to have altered after the event.

We also know that ASADA has documentation from the chinese supplier which distinguishes between "Thymosin" and "Thymosin Beta 4".

In fact, there is an email where the supplier says to Charter: "I can't supply Thymosin Beta 4 but I can supply Thymosin".

.

Bullshit. Let's see this fictitious email. Which is somewhat at odds with the supplier's on the record statement that for that supplier "Thymosin" ALWAYS refers to TB4.

 

[Gigantor]

Moved on to outright fabrication now, have we?



Bullshit. Both TB4 and Hexarelin appear on invoices to Essendon football club. Including the documentation that Dank attempted to have altered after the event.



Bullshit. Let's see this fictitious email. Which is somewhat at odds with the supplier's on the record statement that for that supplier "Thymosin" ALWAYS refers to TB4.

No you are wrong.

The invoice to EFC from Alavi (which was cancelled with a credit note) actually uses the expression "Peptide Thymosin".

Now you might want to make an argument that it's more likely to mean this or that, but in effect, you have supported what I was saying: despite an abundance of documentation right through the so-called supply chain, at no stage do we ever see a reference to "Thymosin Beta 4".

 

[Ancient Tiger]

No you are wrong.

The invoice to EFC from Alavi (which was cancelled with a credit note) actually uses the expression "Peptide Thymosin".

Now you might want to make an argument that it's more likely to mean this or that, but in effect, you have supported what I was saying: despite an abundance of documentation right through the so-called supply chain, at no stage do we ever see a reference to "Thymosin Beta 4".

Except Mr Xu says.....

 

[Gigantor]

In its summary of evidence provided to lawyers for the players, ASADA quotes Mr Charter as saying he only imported Thymosin Beta-4 from China. This was supported by Mr Xu when he told The Australian: “The Thymosin we synthesis (sic) and supply always refers to Thymosin Beta-4.’’

We don't care what other companies say. We are interested in GL Biochem and Mr Xu stated this to The Australian.

So stop with this BS that Dank used thymosin alpha 1. This is only used in very sick individuals. It is not a drug given to healthy athletes. It is not a drug that would be the cornerstone of a supplement program. Add that to the fact GL Biochem doesn't sell thymomodulin and you'd have to be an idiot to think that the thymosin obtained from GL Biochem and given to the Essendon players is anything other than thymosin beta 4.

The Australian does say that, and all I can say is that it is at odds with other evidence ASADA has from the same supplier.

There is price list which distinguishes between "Thymosin Beta 4" and "Thymosin", and there is at least one email form the supplier to Charter where the supplier clearly distinguishes bewteen the two.

Now if ASADA want to say before the Tribunal, that the supplier has confirmed this or that, the defence should ask ASADA to explain the conflicting evidence.

On top of that, another good question for the defence to ask is: why, despite an abundance of documentation, does none of it ever refer to the name: Thymosin Beta 4?

 

[Gigantor]

Except Mr Xu says.....

He might say it, but it's not supported by any of the documentation.

None of it ever refers to the name: Thymosin Beta 4.

 

[Demon in Hell]

It's Boncer

But seriously go nuts. If you guys think you're the only ones enjoying Bruce then you're mistaking.

Apologies Boncer.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

The Australian does say that, and all I can say is that it is at odds with other evidence ASADA has from the same supplier.

There is price list which distinguishes between "Thymosin Beta 4" and "Thymosin", and there is at least one email form the supplier to Charter where the supplier clearly distinguishes bewteen the two.

Now if ASADA want to say before the Tribunal, that the supplier has confirmed this or that, the defence should ask ASADA to explain the conflicting evidence.

On top of that, another good question for the defence to ask is: why, despite an abundance of documentation, does none of it ever refer to the name: Thymosin Beta 4?

That was not from GL Biochem from memory. GL Biochem is what ASADA are basing their case on from what I understand....

"In late 2011, Mr Charter visited China to purchase raw peptides as part of his role in the business arrangement. Mr Charter purchased a variety of substances from G L Biochem in Shanghai including: CJC-1295; GHRP-6; Hexarelin; Melanotan II; MGF (Mechano Growth Factor); and Thymosin Beta-4.


In late 2011, Mr Charter returned to Australia with a veriety of substances, sourced from G L Biochem in Shanghai. Compounding agent Mr Alavi, compounded peptides to Mr Charters specification."

 

[boncer34]

That was not from GL Biochem from memory. GL Biochem is what ASADA are basing their case on from what I understand....

"In late 2011, Mr Charter visited China to purchase raw peptides as part of his role in the business arrangement. Mr Charter purchased a variety of substances from G L Biochem in Shanghai including: CJC-1295; GHRP-6; Hexarelin; Melanotan II; MGF (Mechano Growth Factor); and Thymosin Beta-4.


In late 2011, Mr Charter returned to Australia with a veriety of substances, sourced from G L Biochem in Shanghai. Compounding agent Mr Alavi, compounded peptides to Mr Charters specification."

Your account is activated.

Go nuts.