Mega Thread Tribunal Verdict - Not comfortably satisfied there was a violation - Statement in Post #2

[CoggaRules]

Im running out of patience dumbimg things down for you and as iam answering all the questions you seem to be picking new ones so glad iam getting something through to you, however if you were injected 2 years ago with
Thymomosin
Thymomodulin
Thymosin
Thymosin alpha
Thymosin beta 4

Are you going to remember which name was said exactly? Including the names of your other suppliments? No? Didnt think so.

umm....yeah...its the party line isnt it..."I dont recall"...even Gill is using it when asked about why Andruska stated that he aksed her to pull out important info etc...its the answer that keeps on giving. Listen dude, the verdict was arrived at because of holes in the evidence, the real deal is that there are holes across this whole shebang that are now being side stepped by the footy media, since the footy media need the comp to put food on their tables, so read from the same script. I mean lets take a wide angle lens look at this. Have you heard 1 member of the footy media step out of the party line? Like there is not one person that has a different opinion, correct? lmaoooo...anyway, to those that have have some brains cells that allow them to think with some kind of logic, there are huge doubts that the players are not guilty as there is doubt that the players were guilty of "being administered banned drugs". That call that was supposedly made by no one, that alerted Essendon that they needed to self report, saves the club from being taken down. Had that call by "no one" not been made, they were going to get caught with their pants down, or better still sleeves rolled up.

 

[KissKiss]

umm....yeah...its the party line isnt it..."I dont recall"...even Gill is using it when asked about why Andruska stated that he aksed her to pull out important info etc...its the answer that keeps on giving. Listen dude, the verdict was arrived at because of holes in the evidence, the real deal is that there are holes across this whole shebang that are now being side stepped by the footy media, since the footy media need the comp to put food on their tables, so read from the same script. I mean lets take a wide angle lens look at this. Have you heard 1 member of the footy media step out of the party line? Like there is not one person that has a different opinion, correct? lmaoooo...anyway, to those that have have some brains cells that allow them to think with some kind of logic, there are huge doubts that the players are not guilty as there is doubt that the players were guilty of "being administered banned drugs". That call that was supposedly made by no one, that alerted Essendon that they needed to self report, saves the club from being taken down. Had that call by "no one" not been made, they were going to get caught with their pants down, or better still sleeves rolled up.

They may not count as footy media but The Age have been pretty brutal in their opinion still

 

[royalsfan]

Anyone who seriously believes that Essendon did not keep any records is delusional. The call to inform them that ASADA were on their tail is what started this whole fiasco.
All clubs will now be able to do whatever they want as long as they don't keep records.
If my club had taken players away from the club to inject them with unknown substances, I would hand in my membership.
I'm finished with this corrupt organisation. All they are concerned with is the dollar and TV rights.
I will still watch my team but that's it for me.

 

[CoggaRules]

They may not count as footy media but The Age have been pretty brutal in their opinion still

Footy media = all the ex players who feed off the game on the box. All of them to a man walk the same party line. Not one has a different opinion

 

[CoggaRules]

McDevitt comes out and holds a pressa for 30 minutes explaining why ASADA was on the case and Gill comes out and says not guilty and says something for 2 minutes and thats it...lmaooooo....sheeesh FFS

 

[HoopsAhoy]

McDevitt comes out and holds a pressa for 30 minutes explaining why ASADA was on the case and Gill comes out and says not guilty and says something for 2 minutes and thats it...lmaooooo....sheeesh FFS

Gill's grubby fingerprints have been all over this - right from the start and behind the scenes. Especially when Vlad was the public AFL face and Gill was more able to furtively operate in the shadows.

 

[CoggaRules]

IMO, no records kept is as bad as player x not allowing a sample to be taken. To me that is why the "no documents defence" is crap.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Wow, one of your more pointless posts and that is saying something.

So the level of proof required doesn't matter? Well if that was true then perhaps you're right that nothing can be proven but sadly you're wrong.

Your comments about the 'injection regime' are also completely wrong. You cannot claim it was reduce soft tissue injuries or kill pain or indeed anything because at this point nobody can or will state what was given and that indeed is a breach of the code. The tribunal did make some observations that were telling in that it identified TA1 was not used at Essendon and that TB4 was supplied to Charter and Alavi then claimed it was unable to draw the link to Dank. That is spite of the fact that Dank himself claimed to be using TB4 until he was told it was banned. Now I'm unsure what level of proof the tribunal applied but it seems to have applied 'beyond reasonable doubt'. Well perhaps.

As for Crowley and the Collingwood boys, I suspect we will see a different standard applied and I would expect all three to get close to the full two years. Jones and Henwood do have form in that area when it comes to Crowley, so he can expect no breaks. Then again, if its shown he intended to cheat he should get no breaks, other than a two break from the game.

I didn't claim it was to reduce soft tissue injury, I was making a point it may have been, and that perhaps in this whole rotten saga that they initially set out to do something right, then found that they had maybe made a mistake , which now can't be proved.
You are an angry little egg aren't you.

Major point about ASADA policy, Crowley is required to prove he was not cheating? If he took a pain killer and got tested positive how in hell can anybody
prove anything except for the test being done properly means that there is no point in tribunal hearings they may as well just suspend him.

If he's absolutely sure in himself that he is not guilty , how does he prove otherwise, he can't, only saying that he didn't know the pain killer had an illegal substance in it.

All along I've said proof and absolute proof is needed to make a case , that's why it didn't get to civil court , yet!

Knowing these "investigators" their egos may keep them on the bone... chewing.

I also believe that cheats should be called out and suspended for life .

Difference for me is that you need to be positive that you are correct in your conviction.

Whether the Bombers are in jail or out means nothing to me , ASADA CONSIDERED THEM GUILTY FROM THE WORD GO!

And that is not natural justice. Is that hard to understand. Or are you looking at what I say, without a skerrik of an idea

of what I'm trying to say. One thing more , what is your idea of OH&S when it comes to throwing injured bodies back on the ground

with a pain killer injection, that's OK too? No harm down the track? Double standards mate.

Maybe I don't put down right , but its just common sense. Enjoy the footy 2015.

 

[KissKiss]

Footy media = all the ex players who feed off the game on the box. All of them to a man walk the same party line. Not one has a different opinion

I wish we didn't have to put up with such a boys club like this but thats an issue for another board

 

[CoggaRules]

Gill's grubby fingerprints have been all over this - right from the start and behind the scenes. Especially when Vlad was the public AFL face and Gill was more able to furtively operate in the shadows.

The biggest WTF is, where is the BIG KAHUNA Fitzpatrick? like its as if he is this ghost that comes out when the moon is full..

 

[Seedsfan]

It will be extremely interesting to see what happens when the develop a test is developed for TB4.

 

[JoondalupJ]

No, I think that at this point WADA should take the AFL to task - no one else seems able or willing to.

WADA adherence to drugs in sport in Australia has just taken a huge hit, with damage to reputation that will take a long to time to repair.

The players may well be safe, as not enough evidence could be found that that they were individually injected, or individually intended to dope.
Fair enough.
ASADA and WADA will have to cop that unless further evidence can be sourced.

EFC and the AFL should now be targets of ASADA and WADA - as between the club and the league body, they have made a mockery of anti-doping enforcement in Australia and set dangerous precedences for future supplement-style programs.

They also exhibited an absolute failure to govern their activities and the sport. Unfortunately, these governance failures have continued.

Cue the top-up player chasing by EFC, outside of the engagement rules set by the AFL. Indicative of all that had occurred previously, EFC flouted the rules and AFL merely chastised them. In of itself, a minor inconvenience to a small number of state level clubs. However it is a direct repeat of the ability of EFC to internally self audit and comply with AFL requirements; and the AFL to govern and enforce it's self-set requirements.

This a farce, worthy of the best playwrights.

Thirty four players are innocent and it cannot be proven they were or they weren't. It is why they got off and why an appeal will only crush Essendon not the players, but it will and should be left alone , Essendon got, I think a 2 million dollar fine, banned from finals and Hird banned for a year, they are punished!! Whether you think it is hard enough or not is of no consequence.

So why will another appeal against 34 players ever get anywhere. It won't . Enough . Its over. And this thread is getting ridiculous with all you legal eagles angry that Essendon didn't get hanged. Tough , lets play footy.

 

[imperial_oz]

I didn't claim it was to reduce soft tissue injury, I was making a point it may have been, and that perhaps in this whole rotten saga that they initially set out to do something right, then found that they had maybe made a mistake , which now can't be proved.
You are an angry little egg aren't you.

Major point about ASADA policy, Crowley is required to prove he was not cheating? If he took a pain killer and got tested positive how in hell can anybody
prove anything except for the test being done properly means that there is no point in tribunal hearings they may as well just suspend him.

If he's absolutely sure in himself that he is not guilty , how does he prove otherwise, he can't, only saying that he didn't know the pain killer had an illegal substance in it.

All along I've said proof and absolute proof is needed to make a case , that's why it didn't get to civil court , yet!

Knowing these "investigators" their egos may keep them on the bone... chewing.

I also believe that cheats should be called out and suspended for life .

Difference for me is that you need to be positive that you are correct in your conviction.

Whether the Bombers are in jail or out means nothing to me , ASADA CONSIDERED THEM GUILTY FROM THE WORD GO!

And that is not natural justice. Is that hard to understand. Or are you looking at what I say, without a skerrik of an idea

of what I'm trying to say. One thing more , what is your idea of OH&S when it comes to throwing injured bodies back on the ground

with a pain killer injection, that's OK too? No harm down the track? Double standards mate.

Maybe I don't put down right , but its just common sense. Enjoy the footy 2015.

You know, if you actually bothered to read the code and rules instead of making stuff up, your posts might \actually be worth reading. There's a hint for you.

The rules are straight forward and making up nonsense about soft tissue injuries just looks silly. Proof and absolute proof is not the reason it didn't make a civil court. It didn't go there because there is a dedicated process for dealing with these things and they are handled under the code.

As for Crowley, the rules are clear. He needed to be clear on gameday and therefore has breached the code. He can present a defence but considering the makeup of the tribunal and their history with him, I'm not convinced he can get a fair hearing. We shall see.

Then you asked me a question on OH & S and without even considering whether I might have an opinion, you accused me of double standards. That I think sums up your posts in a nutshell.

 

[CoggaRules]

Pssst Gill, so how do we play this Dank thing?
Ummm, ok, we cant find him guilty of administering a banned substance, so we will go with old faithful, guilty of bringing the game into disrepute and the sentence is banned from holding a position at an AFL Club for life.
I will back up this with a pressa to announce it and take 20 minutes to explain why. Just keep any journos out who want to ask me, who the hell would be hiring him after this, anyway Gill....Bwaahaahaaaa...the comedy festival is in full swing in Melbourne town

 

[HoopsAhoy]

The biggest WTF is, where is the BIG KAHUNA Fitzpatrick? like its as if he is this ghost that comes out when the moon is full..

It wouldn't take a Rhodes Scholar to work out why either. Oh wait....

 

[HoopsAhoy]

It will be extremely interesting to see what happens when the develop a test is developed for TB4.

Yeah you just can't rely on mass spectrometers or other scientific equipment for identifying the atomic weight of stuff.

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/...idoping-tribunal-hearing-20150331-1mc2nb.html

 

[ziad]

Pssst Gill, so how do we play this Dank thing?
Ummm, ok, we cant find him guilty of administering a banned substance, so we will go with old faithful, guilty of bringing the game into disrepute and the sentence is banned from holding a position at an AFL Club for life.
I will back up this with a pressa to announce it and take 20 minutes to explain why. Just keep any journos out who want to ask me, who the hell would be hiring him after this, anyway Gill....Bwaahaahaaaa...the comedy festival is in full swing in Melbourne town

lucky Melbourne didn't tank or it would all look bad for the afffl

 

[CoggaRules]

lucky Melbourne didn't tank or it would all look bad for the afffl

there is no tanking in the AFL FFS. No one has said to a player to lose a game. I mean, that is what tanking means no? lmaooooo....ummm...no, tanking means losing because you want to lose fools...you dont have to tell players to lose, just put the ones that might win it for you in the back pocket

 

[NoAFLinmycomp]

Thirty four players are innocent and it cannot be proven they were or they weren't. It is why they got off and why an appeal will only crush Essendon not the players, but it will and should be left alone , Essendon got, I think a 2 million dollar fine, banned from finals and Hird banned for a year, they are punished!! Whether you think it is hard enough or not is of no consequence.

So why will another appeal against 34 players ever get anywhere. It won't . Enough . Its over. And this thread is getting ridiculous with all you legal eagles angry that Essendon didn't get hanged. Tough , lets play footy.

I wasn't suggesting an appeal against the players, unless new evidence is available (and apparently none is forthcoming at the moment).

I was expressing my preference for ASADA / WADA to chase AFC/ AFL instead.

 

[SydCrow]

ASADA had 4 weeks- 4 weeks to present their evidence and it did not stack up. It did not pass muster. Inadequate. Gaping holes. McDevitt ignored internal advice. It was a farce.

How do you know he ignored internal advice?

 

[placebo]

I can understand Essendon supporters happy that their players got off…I mean, who wouldn't want to watch their best players play?

What I find totally ridiculous and completely sad, is the supporters who somehow think this is a vindication for your club or Hird…your heads must be so far up your own arse that you're manually breathing oxygen into your lungs, because otherwise there surely would be no oxygen reaching the brain and you'd all be a bunch of near vegetables. Seriously, this isn't a vindication for your club or for Hird, they were guilty and they were punished for acting disgracefully. It'll never ever be okay to act with sheer negligence the way they did, and to never know what they injected players with and to not keep records is a complete and utter disgrace and always will be.

 

[Seedsfan]

ASADA had 4 weeks- 4 weeks to present their evidence and it did not stack up. It did not pass muster. Inadequate. Gaping holes. McDevitt ignored internal advice. It was a farce.

Okay David Grace

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I think the thing that pisses a lot of people off is if you don't dot the i's or cross the t's properly with player contracts, etc, the AFL come down hard with big fines, but in this case, a club pertains to not even having kept records of their activities, and that's okay by the AFL. Friggin' joke.

 

[CoggaRules]

I think the thing that pisses a lot of people off is if you don't dot the i's or cross the t's properly with player contracts, etc, the AFL come down hard with big fines, but in this case, a club pertains to not even having kept records of their activities, and that's okay by the AFL. Friggin' joke.

There were no records found and the Tribunal are "comfortably satisfied" that there was a thourough investigation as to why there were no records found and ruled that they didn't keep records, because they could only go on what Essendon's appointed report writer Ziggy stated in his report.

You remember Ziggy? he was the "independent" resource appointed by Essendon to check on everything and before the report was released, had to hand it to them before they gave it the go ahead.
You cant get anymore independent than that dude.

Like he found that there was a "systematic" injection program, so by that I assume there were records that looked systemic, for him to come up with that, but somehow, they didnt keep records...lmaoooo

 

[letstayunited]

Haters gonna hate