News Sam Hayes signs for North Melbourne VFL

[PowerBaz]

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[El_Scorcho]

The funniest part of about the coaches changing their thoughts on him being our future ruck, was the fact they traded Pete Ladhams.

It's maddening. Everything we did suggested we were setting up to hand the job to Hayes until he was suddenly dropped despite us not having another fit ruckman, and completely discarded.

Either there was some code of conduct issue or there is some smoking gun stat that nobody else can find that has ruled him out.

It'd be different if we still had a prime Ryder, but we desperately need a ruckman and we've written off our clearly most capable tap ruckman.

 

[philthy05]

It's maddening. Everything we did suggested we were setting up to hand the job to Hayes until he was suddenly dropped despite us not having another fit ruckman, and completely discarded.

Either there was some code of conduct issue or there is some smoking gun stat that nobody else can find that has ruled him out.

It'd be different if we still had a prime Ryder, but we desperately need a ruckman and we've written off our clearly most capable tap ruckman.

I think it’s as simple as

Hayes 7.7d 2.3 clearances

Lycett (in 2022) 14.2d 4.2 clearances


Hinkley doesn’t want a ruck, he wants a tall midfielder.

I vehemently disagree with it, but I’m positive that’s why he doesn’t rate Hayes, and why the club went out and found a mobile athletic guy like teakle for Hinkley (who is failing to provide the tall mid Hinkley wants anyway lol)

The question of course is why did they let Ladhams go regardless of his training standards or whatever if Hayes wasn’t the ruck Hinkley wants. Which is the question everyone is asking.

Hayes didn’t change, he’s always been a tall dinosaur (but bloody effective at it) ruck.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Yep we sacrificed the development of Frampton (who is probably a better ruck now than anybody on our list) and Ladhams (who is clearly better), in order to develop Hayes at SNAFL level then threw the whole plan out the window to go and grab a WAFL player. I don't want to sound disrespectful to Teakle because its clear he tries his absolute best, but the whole thing is bizarre.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Yes lycetts cooked.

Doubt he will be here? We’ve almost certainly backed ourselves into a corner where we have to keep him.

We absolutely should not keep lycett another year

We absolutely cannot go into next year without a ready senior ruck.

What a ****ed situation we’ve got ourselves into.

As for having someone we are looking at…

What makes you think that?

There’s zero evidence that we’ve got a plan.

Also, as far as I can see there is not a ready made starting quality ruck that is remotely likely to be available this year. They’re all spoken for.








As above I don’t see any realistic senior ready rucks are going to be moving this year.

Looking through the lists… pruess? But the dudes constantly injured, and a downgrade on Hayes. All the problems that Hinkley likely has with Hayes he will have with pruess.

Briggs - see pruess + still contracted.

Regarding Dante, I love him as a prospect, but he’s miles away right now.

We were hesitant to play Hayes when he was bnf. Dante isn’t even holding down the sanfl ruck spot yet.

Next year we would be mad to do more than blood Dante as a 2nd ruck in the afl if the opportunity became available. He’s just not remotely ready to be a full time ruck in the afl.

Lycett is still a back up ruck in the mould of Strachan at the Crows.

If he can get a decent rest and his fitness back then he should be paid and played accordingly.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Schulzenfest]

I think it’s as simple as

Hayes 7.7d 2.3 clearances

Lycett (in 2022) 14.2d 4.2 clearances


Hinkley doesn’t want a ruck, he wants a tall midfielder.

I vehemently disagree with it, but I’m positive that’s why he doesn’t rate Hayes, and why the club went out and found a mobile athletic guy like teakle for Hinkley (who is failing to provide the tall mid Hinkley wants anyway lol)

The question of course is why did they let Ladhams go regardless of his training standards or whatever if Hayes wasn’t the ruck Hinkley wants. Which is the question everyone is asking.

Hayes didn’t change, he’s always been a tall dinosaur (but bloody effective at it) ruck.

The baffling thing about all of this is that Ladhams was exactly the type of ruckman that Hinkley seems to want. Can't ruck for shit but he's one of the best 'extra midfielder' type ruckman in the league. Certainly miles better than Lycett or Teakle.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Lycett is still a back up ruck in the mould of Strachan at the Crows.

If he can get a decent rest and his fitness back then he should be paid and played accordingly.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Only if Hinkley isn't coaching us next year. History shows that Hinkley is unable to put his personal relationships with players aside and puts faith in them well past their use by date. If Lycett and Hinkley are both still here next year, Hinkley will view Lycett as our #1 ruck option.

 

[bomberclifford]

Sam clearly refuses to call him Daddy.

Yep we sacrificed the development of Frampton (who is probably a better ruck now than anybody on our list) and Ladhams (who is clearly better), in order to develop Hayes at SNAFL level then threw the whole plan out the window to go and grab a WAFL player. I don't want to sound disrespectful to Teakle because its clear he tries his absolute best, but the whole thing is bizarre.

It is. Very.

As others have pointed out, it suggests there's something non-football related to the decision.

Keeping him on the list, pushing him during pre-season, then not even playing him in ruck in the SANFL this early in the season is just odd.

 

[bomberclifford]

Hinkley is unable to put his personal relationships with players aside and puts faith in them well past their use by date

Not to mention the opposite of this: you get on Daddy's bad side, you're outta here.

 

[Tibbs]

It's maddening. Everything we did suggested we were setting up to hand the job to Hayes until he was suddenly dropped despite us not having another fit ruckman, and completely discarded.

Either there was some code of conduct issue or there is some smoking gun stat that nobody else can find that has ruled him out.

It'd be different if we still had a prime Ryder, but we desperately need a ruckman and we've written off our clearly most capable tap ruckman.

I seriously wonder how many strikes he is on!

 

[RossFC]

Was interesting that in the U18s Academy game a few weeks back, Hayes rucked 90% of the game.

 

[Long live PAFC]

Out of interest, how do we develop a ruck?

Playing him solely in the SANFL ruck until… how many games/years does it take? What are the markers we want to see? And how long do they get at AFL to show something? Purely stats or are there other intangibles like on field presence?

And how many rucks does a team need? Do many teams have two ready to go quality rucks?

So if Hayes was our number two, does he run around as the number one in the SANFL? How does Visentini develop then? And if we want Scully to have a crack too? If Hayes isn’t our number two ruck, where does he play in the SANFL?

Now if Hinkley and co, as I have heard that Carr prefers Teakle because of his superior leap, really want a ruck that contributes around the ground and wins clearances and acts like another midfielder, why hasn’t Hayes developed that game at SANFL level?

Don’t get me wrong, there are aspects of Sam’s management that look crazy. Why Hinkley said we don’t have a ruck last year after Sam had played his seven games - really odd. Why we backed him and tried to re-sign him only to move past him at the first moment. He seems to have no value now, where as maybe we could have got something for him in 2020 or 2021. Sam has stuck by us and seems happy - well in some aspects.

As I said before, it all can be true. We can have stuffed him around and he can not be up to it. The proof will be in what happens in 2024 and there after.

 

[Malibu#27]

He'll go somewhere else next year and tear us a new one. I have little doubt about that.

If he had the capacity to go somewhere else and tear us a new one he’d already be somewhere else. Ruck’s get traded like Pokémon cards.

That doesn’t mean he can’t have a career - but it’s more likely that he will never tear us apart.

Not every player makes it.

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

I have heard that Carr prefers Teakle because of his superior leap

lol most of his jumps at ruck contests could be made into shooting stars memes.

 

[Coobk001]

Only if Hinkley isn't coaching us next year. History shows that Hinkley is unable to put his personal relationships with players aside and puts faith in them well past their use by date. If Lycett and Hinkley are both still here next year, Hinkley will view Lycett as our #1 ruck option.

This ^

It's a pretty epic failing of coaching and player management IMO.

Honestly right now Visentini is the future, he's not ready, but neither is Teakle. We should be playing Visentini if we aren't going to utilise Hayes.

 

[Coobk001]

What I don't understand, is if you've written Hayes off last year why didn't we try and trade him out. Clearly we aren't playing him this year, even if injuries strike, so why keep him. Yes he's contracted, so delist and rookie list him like we did Williams. Instead I'm presuming that wasn't done because we thought someone would take him in the drafts, but if that's the case why don't you at least just take a slight 3rd round upgrade for him, or some minor but of currency, rather than just releasing him at the end of this year when we've run his value into the ground?

 

[Lawnchair Larry]

Yep we sacrificed the development of Frampton (who is probably a better ruck now than anybody on our list) and Ladhams (who is clearly better), in order to develop Hayes at SNAFL level then threw the whole plan out the window to go and grab a WAFL player. I don't want to sound disrespectful to Teakle because its clear he tries his absolute best, but the whole thing is bizarre.

Didn't Ladhams want out because of his supposed dislike of Hinkley, and don't we have a philosophy of not keeping guys who want out - instead marketing potential absconders for maximum gain?

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

I refuse to believe that Hayes is getting outplayed in preseason and training considering the state of our rucks. Show me the footage.

He's not even being tried as the main ruck at SANFL level. Legitimately not even being given a chance to win a spot. I don't believe it is football reasons

 

[JakeNeadeFan]

What I don't understand, is if you've written Hayes off last year why didn't we try and trade him out. Clearly we aren't playing him this year, even if injuries strike, so why keep him. Yes he's contracted, so delist and rookie list him like we did Williams. Instead I'm presuming that wasn't done because we thought someone would take him in the drafts, but if that's the case why don't you at least just take a slight 3rd round upgrade for him, or some minor but of currency, rather than just releasing him at the end of this year when we've run his value into the ground?

We did try to trade him out. It was widely reported. No one wanted him. Or he didn't want to go.

The rookie list is a salary cap dodging method and there are only so many slots. You can't just delist every player and put them on the rookie list, and even so, you would only do that if it provided salary cap relief. Otherwise it is pointless. Rookie list players can play AFL without restriction .

 

[PrisonBars4life]

Hayes has been light years ahead but this year he has been trash. You can make all the excuses for him you want but a spot has been there for the taking this year and he's underperformed.

He didn't play either proper pre-season game in WA and has been played out of position in the SANFL. Not sure what he can do. Almost single handedly saved us the embarrassment of losing to the u/18s.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

Hayes is playing like a guy who's been beaten into submission and knows no matter how much better his form is than his competitors he's not going to get an AFL game. Do you know why he's performing like that? Because that's exactly what he is.

The week before we dropped Lycett, Hayes was our #1 ruck at SANFL level while Teakle was being trialled as a defender. We picked Teakle over Hayes anyway. You can't even try to argue that Teakle was ahead of Hayes as a ruckman on form, because he literally wasn't even playing as a ruckman. He didn't just have bad form as a ruckman, he had no form.

I don't believe Teakle has played 1st ruck once at the Magpies. In 6 SANFL games total, he's played in defence twice (for zero hitouts), and registered 23,12,11, and 4 hitouts in the other 4. The ruck stocks are terrible in the SANFL. Ladhams, Hayes, Lycett, and Straughn absolutely slaughter their opponent ... every ... single ... week ... in the SANFL.

Before Lycett got dropped, Hayes was sharing evenly with Visentini and knocked up 20 hitouts (1 goal) and 37 hitouts. In 2021 he was throwing up 30s and 40s every week. In 2022 he was throwing up 30s most weeks whilst sharing with Visentini. What more can he do than beat his opponent convincingly every week. Hayes put up credible performances in 6 out of 7 games last year in the AFL. The 7th was getting gangbanged by Ryder/Marshall, the best duo for a decade. I genuinely feel sorry for the guy, we have stuffed up his career. Guys who put up 40 hit outs in a AFL game don't play 7 games. If he'd played 30 games and was borderline and got cut, well fair enough, but it is a bizaare situation to rather play noone than play a guy who looked like he was going okay.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Before Lycett got dropped, Hayes was sharing evenly with Visentini and knocked up 20 hitouts (1 goal) and 37 hitouts. In 2021 he was throwing up 30s and 40s every week. In 2022 he was throwing up 30s most weeks whilst sharing with Visentini. What more can he do than beat his opponent convincingly every week. Hayes put up credible performances in 6 out of 7 games last year in the AFL. The 7th was getting gangbanged by Ryder/Marshall, the best duo for a decade. I genuinely feel sorry for the guy, we have stuffed up his career. Guys who put up 40 hit outs in a AFL game don't play 7 games. If he'd played 30 games and was borderline and got cut, well fair enough, but it is a bizaare situation to rather play noone than play a guy who looked like he was going okay.

We got absolutely slaughtered at stoppages by Geelong at Kadinia. They were rucking Blicavs and Tom Stewart that day. So much for Hayes tap work. That was not a credible performance. It was as pathetic as Billy Frampton losing ruck contests to Jake Stringer in his debut against Essendon.

He was also slaughtered by Draper and Phillips when we played Essendon at home. His last game.

 

[Windy Cindy]

Best for him to walk away now, retire effective immediately

can we then use his spot to pick someone in the mid season draft?

 

[jakey]

Best for him to walk away now, retire effective immediately

can we then use his spot to pick someone in the mid season draft?

Can't see him foregoing an AFL salary to help us out when Ken's made it a special project to **** him over.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Yep we sacrificed the development of Frampton (who is probably a better ruck now than anybody on our list) and Ladhams (who is clearly better), in order to develop Hayes at SNAFL level then threw the whole plan out the window to go and grab a WAFL player. I don't want to sound disrespectful to Teakle because its clear he tries his absolute best, but the whole thing is bizarre.

I tried to mention this in another thread but didn't get it quite out but what it seems like is that the overall nature of Hinkley, that he is not a good tactician, he has the guys he likes, he likes to play injured guys, he has his super gold pass guys, there are guys he doesn't play, you have to be a good person before being a good footballer, etc has seemed to have impacted on player development and list management. I think the negative tendrils have spread out quite far because you can't have a scenario like you have mentioned with good logic, a winning, ruthless attitude and not being petty.

To pull a guy from the WAFL and play him, while probably not unprecedented, is showing desperation because this whole area has been handled extremely poorly. Fair enough if we had serious injuries but we just don't have the cattle and we have 4 of them are the wrong stages of their careers. And given our burgeoning midfield, a good to great ruck would be ace.