Opinion James Frawley

[Scodog10]

Has bringing Lynch on board worked? No
Russell? No
Young? No
White? No
Adams? No

What is it about Frawley that will be any different? He's a poor decision maker, poor kick, isn't suited to monster forwards, has had just one good season and is the most overrated FA in the first 3 years of the system.

Why can't we do what we do best and re-stock at the draft instead of chasing our tails again with talent from other clubs? I'm over it!

 

[Number 10]

Has bringing Lynch on board worked? No
Russell? No
Young? No
White? No
Adams? No

What is it about Frawley that will be any different? He's a poor decision maker, poor kick, isn't suited to monster forwards, has had just one good season and is the most overrated FA in the first 3 years of the system.

Why can't we do what we do best and re-stock at the draft instead of chasing our tails again with talent from other clubs? I'm over it!

I agree. He isn't big enough to take on your Hawkins and Cloke types... Not athletic enough to take on your riewoldt/buddy types. Just a good average tall defender.

 

[Gone Critical]

Has bringing Lynch on board worked? No
Russell? No
Young? No
White? No
Adams? No

What is it about Frawley that will be any different? He's a poor decision maker, poor kick, isn't suited to monster forwards, has had just one good season and is the most overrated FA in the first 3 years of the system.

Why can't we do what we do best and re-stock at the draft instead of chasing our tails again with talent from other clubs? I'm over it!

Russell worked out about where expected, he cost nothing and came from a team where he wasnt 1st 22. It was a punt that cost nothing, a free bet.
Lynch, didnt work out but was a stop gap measure of a player at the end of his career, no disaster
White, has been a below average return so far but can still work out. was always going to be a 2nd stringer at best
Young, Injured in 1st season and best 22 in 2nd season with an output at about what was to be expected, neutral trade so far for mine
Adams, okay so far and has scope for improvement. Expect him to be a 1st 22 long term. Will end up being a good trade for mine

Overall I think these players have worked out at about average. If you simply say they didnt work you are not looking hard enough. Not every trade is designed to gain a jet into the team and they all have different costs. Our trading in the last few seasons hasnt been that bad.

Frawly at a reasonable price would be a great get

 

[shizzle]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-08/how-much-is-frawley-worth

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Who on Earth would offer this for Brown given his injuries?

St Kilda?

 

[Gone Critical]

Frawley is an unrestricted free agent so easier to get than Cameron who we would have to trade for.

You then mentioned Reid, Keeffe and Frost as our defenders. Are Keeffe and Frost proven? Is Reid better forward? No Nath Brown?

I wonder if some people actually think before they post

what i said is perfectly valid, keefe and frost are young in case you have forgotten about that. frawley is incapble of leading in defence (he is prone to cracking under pressure), we need reid back in defence because our defence needs leadership and reid is the next best defensive leader we have.[/QUOTE]


Only problem with what you have said is that it is clear Reid is being developed as a forward. It should be obvious to everyone thats Bucks plan. You may want him back but that aint going to change what is happening

 

[Scodog10]

Russell worked out about where expected, he cost nothing and came from a team where he wasnt 1st 22. It was a punt that cost nothing, a free bet.
Lynch, didnt work out but was a stop gap measure of a player at the end of his career, no disaster
White, has been a below average return so far but can still work out. was always going to be a 2nd stringer at best
Young, Injured in 1st season and best 22 in 2nd season with an output at about what was to be expected, neutral trade so far for mine
Adams, okay so far and has scope for improvement. Expect him to be a 1st 22 long term. Will end up being a good trade for mine

Overall I think these players have worked out at about average. If you simply say they didnt work you are not looking hard enough. Not every trade is designed to gain a jet into the team and they all have different costs. Our trading in the last few seasons hasnt been that bad.

Frawly at a reasonable price would be a great get

Are we any closer to a flag with those players on our list than we were without them? The answer is a clear no so none of them has been a success. I also forgot Armstrong as well!

If we didn't have good KPD depth I could get behind Frawley the problem is if we bring him on board we will wind up trading out another developed Collingwood player and replacing them with someone who won't improve us. It's poor list management because the guy coming in will be grossly overpaid for someone that has had just one good season!

 

[ppoiter]

I agree. He isn't big enough to take on your Hawkins and Cloke types... Not athletic enough to take on your riewoldt/buddy types. Just a good average tall defender.

So an upgrade on Maxwell in terms of playing ability? If we can get him without paying overs id be for it

 

[lones37]

Frawley in our side would give us so much value 600K is a good price.

Its about structure, with him in our side we have a multitude of options available.

As it is we haven't really been torn apart by power forwards, we have been obliterated on our turnovers and opposition mids kicking goals.

As a free agent we have to get him if we can, these players are crucial to your spine and 5 years at 600K could be overs but that wouldn't bother me one bit.

The issue is do we lose Goldsack to fit him in, I'm assuming we will get Dylan Shiel from GWS so that means Frost is who GWS want.

Would love Frawley and Shiel to only lose Goldsack, but that could be stretching it.

If we lose Frost we would probably keep Goldsack.

 

[Pendles!]

Has bringing Lynch on board worked? No
Russell? No
Young? No
White? No
Adams? No

What is it about Frawley that will be any different? He's a poor decision maker, poor kick, isn't suited to monster forwards, has had just one good season and is the most overrated FA in the first 3 years of the system.

Why can't we do what we do best and re-stock at the draft instead of chasing our tails again with talent from other clubs? I'm over it!

You've gotta realise we've gotten all those players for free (bar Adams, who you're very harsh on) so we could move on others for first rounders. Those players you mentioned we've brought in to fill the gaps while the young draftees develop. It really can't be that hard to understand..

 

[Pendles!]

Has bringing Lynch on board worked? No
Russell? No
Young? No
White? No
Adams? No

What is it about Frawley that will be any different? He's a poor decision maker, poor kick, isn't suited to monster forwards, has had just one good season and is the most overrated FA in the first 3 years of the system.

Why can't we do what we do best and re-stock at the draft instead of chasing our tails again with talent from other clubs? I'm over it!

You've gotta realise we've gotten all those players for free (bar Adams, who you're very harsh on) so we could move on others for first rounders. Those players you mentioned we've brought in to fill the gaps while the young draftees develop. It really can't be that hard to understand..

 

[Number 10]

Frawley in our side would give us so much value 600K is a good price.

Its about structure, with him in our side we have a multitude of options available.

As it is we haven't really been torn apart by power forwards, we have been obliterated on our turnovers and opposition mids kicking goals.

As a free agent we have to get him if we can, these players are crucial to your spine and 5 years at 600K could be overs but that wouldn't bother me one bit.

The issue is do we lose Goldsack to fit him in, I'm assuming we will get Dylan Shiel from GWS so that means Frost is who GWS want.

Would love Frawley and Shiel to only lose Goldsack, but that could be stretching it.

If we lose Frost we would probably keep Goldsack.

You say turnovers and opposition mids kicking goals and you want a sloppy back man? Why not chuck $3m and 5 year deal at Dan Hannebery? Luke Parker? Tom Liberatore? Jackson McRae? Stephen Hill? They would be the solution to that issue.

 

[Jasper84]

You say turnovers and opposition mids kicking goals and you want a sloppy back man? Why not chuck $3m and 5 year deal at Dan Hannebery? Luke Parker? Tom Liberatore? Jackson McRae? Stephen Hill? They would be the solution to that issue.

Except that they are contracted and their respective teams won't trade their best young players for no reason.

 

[Jasper84]

Which part of picking up a free agent as compared to having to trade for high quality players are people not getting?

 

[demon21]

I agree. He isn't big enough to take on your Hawkins and Cloke types... Not athletic enough to take on your riewoldt/buddy types. Just a good average tall defender.

That is not true at all Frawley has played on the best over the years in an awful team and has beat his opponent's most times, cause of the speculation on him this year with money he is so called asking for people are being way to harsh, if u check out his stats in the last 4 years he is 1 of the best FB in the league. Even last season when we won 2 games and got flogged in most games he had 25 goals kicked on him in 17 games and only 2 times did his opponent kick more than 2 goals.

As a melb supporter i hope he stays but make no mistake who ever gets him u can put him on the best forward and be very confident he will get the job done.

 

[frizzle]

I think Frawley & Talia from the Crows are probably the best 2 full backs as far as stopping dominant forwards goes. I think Frost will be right there next year.
It would give us the flexibility of switching Reid & Frawley at any time. Hell we could even play a forward line of Frawley, Cloke & Reid if we so wanted to.
I'm not keen to pay him huge dollars, but of the free agents we have picked up since free agency started, he would clearly be the best of them. Far better than Lynch & Young. Not against his recruitment, just hope we don't pay something ridiculous for him.

 

[DaVe86]

Has bringing Lynch on board worked? No
Russell? No
Young? No
White? No
Adams? No

What is it about Frawley that will be any different? He's a poor decision maker, poor kick, isn't suited to monster forwards, has had just one good season and is the most overrated FA in the first 3 years of the system.

Why can't we do what we do best and re-stock at the draft instead of chasing our tails again with talent from other clubs? I'm over it!

Naive Post.

Russell...cost us our final draft pick. Basically nothing. Played more games than expected. Worth a punt considering a first round draft pick.

Young - Free Agent. Cost us nothing. Injured all first year and has played nearly every game this year. Poor last fortnight, but in general has had a good season

White - We got him to be our 3rd tall forward. Let's judge him now that Reid is back. Still early days with him. At a minimum, he has competed ok in the ruck when used there.

Adams - 20 year old kid coming from a losing culture. Dominated VFL and has shown patches at AFL. A long way to go but you will be made to eat your words.


Plus we HAVE been building through the draft. We've had 5 first round draft picks in 2 years and it looks like we've nailed them. Plus we've scored well with Langdon and Marsh in my opinion.


Frawley would be a great get. We have a young backline with little experience. Frawley has been an impressive defender his whole career. Remember he has been used predominantly forward this year.

He may not be suitable to monster forwards, but we still have Keeffe, Reid and Frost in the side for that...and as it stands Nathan Brown as well. Either way, he has played on monster forwards in the past and has done well.

It's not like it will cost us a draft pick. We still get Darcy Moore and all our other picks.

The flexibility Frawley would give us is huge.

 

[DaVe86]

That is not true at all Frawley has played on the best over the years in an awful team and has beat his opponent's most times, cause of the speculation on him this year with money he is so called asking for people are being way to harsh, if u check out his stats in the last 4 years he is 1 of the best FB in the league. Even last season when we won 2 games and got flogged in most games he had 25 goals kicked on him in 17 games and only 2 times did his opponent kick more than 2 goals.

As a melb supporter i hope he stays but make no mistake who ever gets him u can put him on the best forward and be very confident he will get the job done.

Thank you for bringing some sanity to this thread. I'm shocked to see so much negativity.

 

[neilk]

Because there is no one

I think Reid can be a very good forward

When he was drafted he was certainly a KP forward.

 

[SCPaige]

He does look pretty good in black and white, let's be honest..

 

[DaVe86]

You say turnovers and opposition mids kicking goals and you want a sloppy back man? Why not chuck $3m and 5 year deal at Dan Hannebery? Luke Parker? Tom Liberatore? Jackson McRae? Stephen Hill? They would be the solution to that issue.

But we need to trade to get them.

Seriously, why are people so confused here.

You can't just get Dan Hannebery or Tom Liberatore as they are not Free Agents. You need to trade something huge.

And it will take more than Goldsack, Lumumba and Keeffe.

You need to either give a top 5 pick or elite player. We don't even have a first round pick this year because it will be committed to Moore.

Nathan Brown might assist. I'd be looking at a direct trade with Sydney for Tom Mitchell as Sydney love recylced defenders (Shaw, Grundy, Richards, Mattner, Laidler to name a few of late).

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

Isn't he a restricted free agent? So we would have to make an offer that Melbourne couldn't match. We'd be paying massive overs for him.

He is not worth more than 500k, no defender is worth that much IMO. The reality is the best defenders still give up goals and you can get by with just decent defenders. Put the best forward in the comp on the best defender in the comp and you know who'll win most of the time. A well timed lead and a precision pass is almost impossible to defend against.

AFL is a high scoring game, the only way to slow scoring is to choke oppositions all over the field, not just in the back half. A combination of Keeffe, Frost and Brown is more than enough to present a solid defence. We just need better pressure from our midfield again, which seems to have evaporated this season.

 

[Scodog10]

You've gotta realise we've gotten all those players for free (bar Adams, who you're very harsh on) so we could move on others for first rounders. Those players you mentioned we've brought in to fill the gaps while the young draftees develop. It really can't be that hard to understand..

How are they free? They've all cost money under the cap and a list spot. Armstrong for instance cost us the ability to promote Martin to the senior list. Some would argue that Lynch cost us Dawes (I wouldn't). Bringing Frawley in will cost one of Frost, Keeffe or Brown and he isn't that much better than any of them 3 to justify the price tag.

Also do you honestly believe Adams has worked for us so far by improving our team overall? Because for mine I'm not being harsh, I'm being blunt. We don't do well when sourcing players from other clubs. Let's stick to the draft which is what we've always done best!!

 

[DaVe86]

I propose a new rule that every time someone says we should go after Cameron, they then have to suggest what we would offer to get it done.

Oh wait, we are on BF aren't we? Screw going after Frawley! We should be going for Ablett and Boyd in a package deal!

I think this is a great post.

If you want to put forward the proposal to get Cameron or another gun of the comp, please put forward your suggestion how to get them.

If you can do that adequately, then your post will be considered.

The other important thing for people to realise is that he is Unrestricted FA. That means Melbourne can't match the offer. So we can potentially get him for less if he WANTS to come to Collingwood.

For now its just rumour as there is still so long to go until FA period opens. It's going to be a long couple of months of discussion.

The point at this stage is that we are clearly in the running, and I think we should definitely be in the market at the right price. I think $500-600 is pretty fair to be honest for Key Position player who can slot straight into your best 22 and be a spine player. He may not be top 3 in the BnF but defenders rarely are.

 

[DaVe86]

How are they free? They've all cost money under the cap and a list spot. Armstrong for instance cost us the ability to promote Martin to the senior list. Some would argue that Lynch cost us Dawes (I wouldn't). Bringing Frawley in will cost one of Frost, Keeffe or Brown and he isn't that much better than any of them 3 to justify the price tag.

Also do you honestly believe Adams has worked for us so far by improving our team overall? Because for mine I'm not being harsh, I'm being blunt. We don't do well when sourcing players from other clubs. Let's stick to the draft which is what we've always done best!!

They are free in relation to not having to find a trade to get them. That means not having to give up an existing player. In relation to the picks we have used to get Armstrong or Russell, we most likely weren't going to use those picks anyway.

Armstrong has not prevented Martin getting promoted. He could've been promoted at almost any stage this year given our long term injuries. He has been made to work for his spot.

I can't believe you are judging Adams already. He hasn't even played 10 games for our club yet and is a 20 year old.

He will make our team stronger when played in position.


I agree whole-heartedly that you need to build your own. We have been doing that. We have taken 5 first round draft picks in the last 2 years.

But all good sides also need to try and attract the best talent as well.

Sydney, Hawthorn and Geelong have all worked very hard to lure players to their sides. Sydney and Hawthorn in particular are full of recycled players.