Conspiracy Theory 9/11 - Part 2

[Freak Dodgeball Accident]

All bodies are roughly lumps of mass. All bodies carry mass. Mass curves spacetime, mass inherently is affected by INERTIA.


Inertia is a feature, a property of a body with mass (there are massless particles, but that is a whole new dimension of physics: Quantum Physics), and it is used to provide a measurement of a body’s ability to resist motion (from rest) or stay in uniform motion (velocity different (!=) from zero, acceleration equal to zero).

The more massive a body is, the higher its inertial properties are. That is true for a rock, that is true for an animal, it is true for a car and is true for an aircraft.

We can define a quantity called Linear Momentum, which is defined as p=mv, meaning, linear momentum of a body equals its mass times its velocity (in m/s). We can deduce and relate this quantity with Newton’s Law #2, but more importantly, we can define the Conservation of Momentum as a fundamental “rule” of this universe, and it is basically the Total Momentum of a System is the sum of the individual momentums of all its constituent masses and this Total Momentum IS CONSERVED AT ALL times.

Obviously, we must define what is a System, its frontiers, and therefore we must define which are the internal forces and which are the external forces. Internal forces of a system cannot change its total momentum. Systems which are acted by NO EXTERNAL FORCES are said to be ISOLATED. These conclusions are important to this matter.

Now, what does this imply?

You have 2 billiard balls. One is at rest, the other is moving towards it with a certain velocity. The total momentum of the system (these 2 balls) must be conserved if all external forces are discounted (external forces would be friction, and air resistance, for instance). When the magnitude of the impact and linear momentum are such that friction, resistances, etc, are minute by comparison, we can discount them (the margin of error is not much relevant). Continuing with the 2 balls analogy, the total momentum of the system is the sum of each ball’s linear momentum, in this case:

pTotal = pBall1 + pBall2

If ball1 is at rest, because p=mv, we have

pTotal = 0 + pBall2 = mBall2*velocity2

Now, the balls collide. When they separate, depending on the type of collision (elastic, inelastic) we can determine the momentum of each ball and also their kinetic energy (by the way, Kinetic Energy (KE) = (1/2)*mass*velocity^2, or 0.5*mass*velocity_squared).

In an inelastic collision, the total kinetic energy before the collision is different than the total kinetic energy AFTER. But momentum can still be CONSERVED, which implies we can consider collisions of automobiles and airplanes as events in which external forces are “irrelevant” and momentum is conserved.

Which means we can, given precise telemetry, know exactly how much energy is absorbed (and not recovered) during a collision.

Now, we have another quantity designated Impulse (I).

I = F*deltaT, meaning the impulse of a force is equal to the magnitude of a force multiplied (i.e.,*) by the amount of time the force is acting on a body (deltaT is the variation of time, or time interval: T_final – T_initial).

I = deltaP, with deltaP being the variation of P, which is Momentum (or in this case, linear momentum). Remember that P = m*v

So, on one hand we have I = deltaP, on the other I = F*deltaT

So, F= m*a, a is acceleration, acceleration is the variation of velocity (deltaV= vf-vi, i.e., velocity_final – velocity_initial) with time, so in fact F=m*deltaV/deltaT, with deltaT being T_final – T_initial), in effect giving us F= m*(deltaV/deltaT)

So, if I = F*deltaT, and F= m*deltaV/deltaT, we then have that (substituting F),

I = (m*deltaV/deltaT)*deltaT

The deltaT’s cancel each other out, and we then have

I=m*deltaV, which is the variation of Momentum (deltaP = P_final – P_initial). As mass is for the sake of the system wise calculations, immutable, we have then that what varies is the velocity.

All this to show you this result:

The impulse of the force of impact of a body into another can be precisely calculated. And even though we don’t know exactly the force of impact, we can calculate its impulse due to the other result (m*deltaV).

So, how does this apply to a tower and an airplane?


This way:


After the collision (fraction of a second later, or even a couple of seconds later), the tower remained at rest. Velocity of the tower (ignore the wobble, vibrations) is ZERO.

Velocity of the airplane is ZERO.
This is a purely inelastic collision, meaning we can calculate its momentum but we know that the kinetic energy of the system airplane + tower AFTER the collision is HUGELY less than right before the collision.

Here comes the mind-flash moment:
Where did all the energy go?
Well, fuel ignited. Enough? NO.
The towers buckled? NO.
So…?


The airplanes fragmented. All the energy was dissipated by fragmenting the airplane components and some tower parts (obviously).
Could an airplane survive the dive into a concrete/steel structure? No, but parts of it yes.
Could the nose survive intact?

I don’t see how. Really. The “skin”, fuselage of an airplane is roughly between 1.1mm (milimeter) and 2.2mm. A A320 is 1.1 to 1.2 mm, a B747-400 is at best 2.2mm, a military aircraft’s frame is as thick as 2.54 mm.

So, an impact of an airframe with a solid, heavy object at speed is destructive. For a big nose (large area) to cross unscathed tens of meters of truces, pillars, furniture, tubes, etc…is probably as likely as hitting jackpot twice on a national lottery.

Edit: Good work by the way.

 

[Floor Pie]

We'll do what we can.....that said, some of your variables are probably going to meaningless, ie, we could calculate with everything in the planes favour, and I still don't believe it could penetrate the supastructure, but as long as those variables can be tweaked, new outputs can be calculated and uploaded.

I look forward to your finished product! I hope you keep us updated with your progress.

But I will say that I believe that the plane could definitely penetrate the tower.

 

[POGMA]

I look forward to your finished product! I hope you keep us updated with your progress.

But I will say that I believe that the plane could definitely penetrate the tower.

 

[Floor Pie]

It would be nice to get the calculations they used for that video!

Is that similar to what you are trying to create?

Wouldn't it be easier to check their values and calculations, and find out if they have any errors?

For example, they are claiming that the plane was traveling at 800km/h, which you have said is impossible.
So if you just first proved that it is impossible that the plane was traveling at that speed, you would be off to a great start!

 

[POGMA]

It would be nice to get the calculations they used for that video!

Is that similar to what you are trying to create?

Wouldn't it be easier to check their values and calculations, and find out if they have any errors?

For example, they are claiming that the plane was traveling at 800km/h, which you have said is impossible.
So if you just first proved that it is impossible that the plane was traveling at that speed, you would be off to a great start!

One thing to understand is that even if we're unsure of a variable, we can allocate a maximum, so in this video, 500mph=800kph was used as it was probably the max end of a on the record GOVERNMENT figure, IOW, as long as all meaningful values are accounted, and that no meaningful value is on the low side, the simulation should be a fairly accurate representation of what really would've happened in real life and time.

 

[Floor Pie]

One thing to understand is that even if we're unsure of a variable, we can allocate a maximum, so in this video, 500mph=800kph was used as it was probably the max end of a on the record GOVERNMENT figure, IOW, as long as all meaningful values are accounted, and that no meaningful value is on the low side, the simulation should be a fairly accurate representation of what really would've happened in real life and time.

That's why you should do the calculations, or find the calculations used! Because the cruising speed of the 767 is at 10.6km is 851km/h http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/767family/pf/pf_200prod.page
Those are the specs for the 767.
The maximum thrust is 267.8kN
So if you work out the drag, by finding the maximum efficiency of the engines that day based on the temperature/density of the air, wind speed and direction.
You can find a pretty good estimate to the velocity at the point of impact.

 

[Sublime]

That's why you should do the calculations, or find the calculations used! Because the cruising speed of the 767 is at 10.6km is 851km/h http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/767family/pf/pf_200prod.page
Those are the specs for the 767.
The maximum thrust is 267.8kN
So if you work out the drag, by finding the maximum efficiency of the engines that day based on the temperature/density of the air, wind speed and direction.
You can find a pretty good estimate to the velocity at the point of impact.

Surely someone has already sat down and worked this out, meaning the information should be around somewhere? I'd imagine this should be one of the first ports of call for someone with the right amount of book learning.

 

[ablett]

Ok, I had a look at your link and I have to ask, did you check all the links provided in the story?

I checked the first 12, and either it links to a blog, that doesn't cite any evidence, just conjecture. Or it leads to the homepage for the uk telegraph...

I have to say, I'm not convinced.

The man who said that they were at his bar, shouting anti american slogans, and left their business card, and a quran... And somehow he has no way of accessing evidence of the credit cards used, because the FBI took everything...

I'm just unconvinced. And I don't know why you would believe it.

That's the point, non of it is convincing.

Google 9/11 hijackers partying the night before & you will discover many different reports.

Yes I believe it could be fabricated but why would they fabricate it?
To convince the sheep the planes were hijacked, fabricating trails , just like releasing info they took flight lessons yet no USA flight instructor schools can verify ever training any Muslims to the degree of being able to fly planes into the a Twin Towers.
Don't you realise by now it was all a set up using Muslims as the Scapegoats cos they fit the mould perfectly.

 

[ablett]

Ok, I had a look at your link and I have to ask, did you check all the links provided in the story?

I checked the first 12, and either it links to a blog, that doesn't cite any evidence, just conjecture. Or it leads to the homepage for the uk telegraph...

I have to say, I'm not convinced.

The man who said that they were at his bar, shouting anti american slogans, and left their business card, and a quran... And somehow he has no way of accessing evidence of the credit cards used, because the FBI took everything...

I'm just unconvinced. And I don't know why you would believe it.

Ok so just say you were convinced , would it create any doubt in your mind that the accused hijackers could've still accomplished what supposably did after a big night out?

 

[Floor Pie]

That's the point, non of it is convincing.

Google 9/11 hijackers partying the night before & you will discover many different reports.

Yes I believe it could be fabricated but why would they fabricate it?
To convince the sheep the planes were hijacked, fabricating trails , just like releasing info they took flight lessons yet no USA flight instructor schools can verify ever training any Muslims to the degree of being able to fly planes into the a Twin Towers.
Don't you realise by now it was all a set up using Muslims as the Scapegoats cos they fit the mould perfectly.

I just don't understand, how someone who says that think logically, and strive for truth, would have looked at the link you provided, and believed it.

This is the problem on both sides. Confirmation bias.

You believed that info, without checking the facts, because you wanted to believe it. If I posted a site like that, with the same level of content, and it was saying a man at the airport saw one of them wearing a pilot suit entering the connecting gate. Would you believe it for a second?



Edit:

Ok so just say you were convinced , would it create any doubt in your mind that the accused hijackers could've still accomplished what supposably did after a big night out?

If they had a massive hangover, and were possibly still drunk, yes I would think it would be much harder to accomplish their task.

But we don't even know how much they drank, if they were even ever there.

 

[ablett]

I just don't understand, how someone who says that think logically, and strive for truth, would have looked at the link you provided, and believed it.

This is the problem on both sides. Confirmation bias.

You believed that info, without checking the facts, because you wanted to believe it. If I posted a site like that, with the same level of content, and it was saying a man at the airport saw one of them wearing a pilot suit entering the connecting gate. Would you believe it for a second?



Edit:


If they had a massive hangover, and were possibly still drunk, yes I would think it would be much harder to accomplish their task.

But we don't even know how much they drank, if they were even ever there.

When & where did I say I believed it?
And there is many articles & reports from several different sources of the accused hijackers 9/11 eve actions.
Maybe you should do some research instead of picking the crap out of one link.
Too many sheep are scared to dig too deep cos what they find may disprove everything they've believed thus far.
So your satisfied that none of the accused hijackers are spotted on any airports CCTV footage?
And 100's of passengers were overpowerd by a few blokes with Stanley knives?

 

[Floor Pie]

When & where did I say I believed it?

You didn't state "I believe this", but it's pretty obvious you do. Here is the post again;

http://www.911myths.com/html/strip_clubs.html

The above link is an article that reports the suspected/accused hijackers were seen in bars & strip clubs drinking alcohol etc on the eve of 9/11, please read the full text.

This is just me thinking logical again which so many fail to do.
The reported actions of the hijackers on the eve of 9/11 expose two major concerns with me.
1. Devout Muslims don't drink alcahol, take drugs & associate with strippers/prostitutes.
2. It's been well documented of the skill required to fly & manuveur the planes into the Twin Towers,
so are now to believe that it was not only accomplished by novis polits but also by novis pilots with hangovers?

There are so many small logical things that don't add up without even going into the scientific & engineering evidence that debunks the official story of the 9/11 events..

And there is many articles & reports from several different sources of the accused hijackers 9/11 eve actions.
Maybe you should do some research instead of picking the crap out of one link.

More to show that you believe it. Don't have a go at me, just because you provided a terrible source.
You would not have believed it, or even considered it, had it been stating that the official story was correct. But you jump at that link, and used to it justify your position, without even looking into it.

Too many sheep are scared to dig too deep cos what they find may disprove everything they've believed thus far.
So your satisfied that none of the accused hijackers are spotted on any airports CCTV footage?
And 100's of passengers were overpowerd by a few blokes with Stanley knives?

Who is a sheep? Who is scared?
I looked at your link, I went through a lot of it, and I found it completely unjustified, and I explained why.
Have you ever been in a hostage situation? Or do you think you're Mark Wahlberg, and you would have jumped up and kicked their arse?


Do you agree with me, that the link you provided was completely unbelievable on its own merits?

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Floor Pie, any part of the official story you don't personally accept?

 

[ablett]

You didn't state "I believe this", but it's pretty obvious you do. Here is the post again;




More to show that you believe it. Don't have a go at me, just because you provided a terrible source.
You would not have believed it, or even considered it, had it been stating that the official story was correct. But you jump at that link, and used to it justify your position, without even looking into it.


Who is a sheep? Who is scared?
I looked at your link, I went through a lot of it, and I found it completely unjustified, and I explained why.
Have you ever been in a hostage situation? Or do you think you're Mark Wahlberg, and you would have jumped up and kicked their arse?


Do you agree with me, that the link you provided was completely unbelievable on its own merits?

Yes there's parts of the link that has it flaws, the whole event has it flaws, that's the point.
But posters like you seem very selective to what you reply to.
Cell phones working above 30,000 feet?
Wtc7 announced on BBC it collapsed before it did?
Pentagon had a 5m wide impact whole that supposably a 34m plane fitted inside of?
Where's the plane at Shanksville crash site?
The Twin Towers were built to withstand fire & a plane crashing into them yet they both fell exactly the same way, not ironic at all.

You pick a few flaws in a link yet don't provide any evidence/suggestions of what n how it happened.

 

[Floor Pie]

Floor Pie, any part of the official story you don't personally accept?

Showing my ignorance if the following are myths.

But that a group of people who were behind the major funding to Osama, who were in America at the time, were flown out of American, back to Saudi A, as an emergency, by the us government.

Also, the discrepancy in the budget.

Why it was used to go after Saddam..

That's all I can think of at the moment.

 

[Floor Pie]

Yes there's parts of the link that has it flaws, the whole event has it flaws, that's the point.
But posters like you seem very selective to what you reply to.
Cell phones working above 30,000 feet?
Wtc7 announced on BBC it collapsed before it did?
Pentagon had a 5m wide impact whole that supposably a 34m plane fitted inside of?
Where's the plane at Shanksville crash site?
The Twin Towers were built to withstand fire & a plane crashing into them yet they both fell exactly the same way, not ironic at all.

You pick a few flaws in a link yet don't provide any evidence/suggestions of what n how it happened.

I pulled apart your link completely. Not a few flaws.
You say I don't explain how it might have happened? I say it a didn't happen. They weren't there drinking and getting lap dances.

I replied to your 5m post, you ignored my reply, then accuse me of ignoring it....
I asked of you were saying it was a 5m hole at the outer wall of the pentagon.
Can you show me the cell phone info? If not I'll look for myself.
The bbc one I don't really care about. Idiot on the teleprompter, misunderstanding, I don't believe the bbc was in on the conspiracy, and they accidentally let slip the entire plan.

Two twin towers, damaged in very similar ways, collapsed in very similar ways? How is that ironic?

Shanksville, wasn't that smashed to bits on impact with the earth?

 

[Sublime]

I pulled apart your link completely. Not a few flaws.
You say I don't explain how it might have happened? I say it a didn't happen. They weren't there drinking and getting lap dances.

I replied to your 5m post, you ignored my reply, then accuse me of ignoring it....
I asked of you were saying it was a 5m hole at the outer wall of the pentagon.
Can you show me the cell phone info? If not I'll look for myself.
The bbc one I don't really care about. Idiot on the teleprompter, misunderstanding, I don't believe the bbc was in on the conspiracy, and they accidentally let slip the entire plan.

Two twin towers, damaged in very similar ways, collapsed in very similar ways? How is that ironic?

Shanksville, wasn't that smashed to bits on impact with the earth?

I only know about the phone calls from flight 93. In total there was 37 phone calls made. 35 of those were made from the onboard airphones, while 2 were made from cell phones. The cell phone calls were allegedly made during the descent at about 6000 feet. I'm not sure if a cell phone would have worked at that altitude in 2001 though.

 

[Present Not Past]

Calls were being made from the aircraft up until the collision with the tower so I don't think there would be a problem with reception. This myth about calls being made from 20,000 feet is just that - misinformation. I mean, why would they call when they weren't aware of any danger yet.

 

[POGMA]

Don't forget folks, the entire crew of pilots and passengers were controlled by a handful of A-rabs with box cutters, YEAH RIGHT!!!!
From memory, could be wrong, but I think some of the pilots were ex military, and I think a silly little knife wouldn't be such a hurdle if your life was on the line......and don't forget how outnumbered they were.

Seriously, some people will believe anything just cause the MSM tell em, no matter stupid and implausible.

 

[Sublime]

Don't forget folks, the entire crew of pilots and passengers were controlled by a handful of A-rabs with box cutters, YEAH RIGHT!!!!
From memory, could be wrong, but I think some of the pilots were ex military, and I think a silly little knife wouldn't be such a hurdle if your life was on the line......and don't forget how outnumbered they were.

Seriously, some people will believe anything just cause the MSM tell em, no matter stupid and implausible.

I've got a mate who is ex military who i could beat up with one hand tied behind my back, and i'm no Chuck Norris. The former occupation has no direct impact on how they would or wouldn't go in a certain situation. If they're holding a box cutter to someones throat, would you want to be the one who moved first to overpower the attackers, and have that dead persons blood on your hands when the attackers slit their throat? Its a big call to make if you don't know what their plans for the plane are.

One of the planes did fight back, the other ones to our knowledge didn't.

 

[ablett]

I've got a mate who is ex military who i could beat up with one hand tied behind my back, and i'm no Chuck Norris. The former occupation has no direct impact on how they would or wouldn't go in a certain situation. If they're holding a box cutter to someones throat, would you want to be the one who moved first to overpower the attackers, and have that dead persons blood on your hands when the attackers slit their throat? Its a big call to make if you don't know what their plans for the plane are.

One of the planes did fight back, the other ones to our knowledge didn't.

But all your knowledge is from MSM

 

[ablett]

I pulled apart your link completely. Not a few flaws.
You say I don't explain how it might have happened? I say it a didn't happen. They weren't there drinking and getting lap dances.

I replied to your 5m post, you ignored my reply, then accuse me of ignoring it....
I asked of you were saying it was a 5m hole at the outer wall of the pentagon.
Can you show me the cell phone info? If not I'll look for myself.
The bbc one I don't really care about. Idiot on the teleprompter, misunderstanding, I don't believe the bbc was in on the conspiracy, and they accidentally let slip the entire plan.

Two twin towers, damaged in very similar ways, collapsed in very similar ways? How is that ironic?

Shanksville, wasn't that smashed to bits on impact with the earth?

Hers a start but I have better ones to follow.

Anyone see the remains of a plane?
A 34m wide plane would not fit entirely into that gap so where's the broken wings outside?
It was hit by either a missile or a smaller plan carrying explosives.
Also you don't find it suspicious at all that this part of the Pentagon is where the accountants worked whom were investigating Dick Cheeney's missing Trillions which he announce the day before 9/11.

 

[Sublime]

But all your knowledge is from MSM

Where else do we get this information from though? The people on the planes are dead.

 

[Floor Pie]

Hers a start but I have better ones to follow.
View attachment 77843
Anyone see the remains of a plane?
A 34m wide plane would not fit entirely into that gap so where's the broken wings outside?
It was hit by either a missile or a smaller plan carrying explosives.
Also you don't find it suspicious at all that this part of the Pentagon is where the accountants worked whom were investigating Dick Cheeney's missing Trillions which he announce the day before 9/11.

Just because you can't find wally, doesn't mean he isn't there.

Is that the 5m hole you kept talking about? And again I see... Ignored my response to...
Did you expect all the pieces to bounce off, and land around on the grass?
What entered the building? The plane... Could it be under all of the rubble from the collapsed parts of the building?

I'd find it suspicious if you gave me a valid link with evidence of it.

 

[Sublime]

How long is one of those fire trucks with the massive ladders on them? I can't find any dimensions for them anywhere online. You can fit at least 2 of those yellow trucks length ways in the damaged area.

Edit: Also, in that photo, what is that timber colour stuff on the bottom level to the left hand side of the opening? Is that some sort of makeshift support they've put in to stop that side collapsing as well? Looks like there has been a fair bit of damage down there as well.