Discussion Clubs not acknowledging VFA History

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radiojake said:
I don't think you really need to the whole 'table' thing - It gets messy and it's an unneccesary dick measuring contest

Each club should just celebrate the flags they won in the competitions they were competing in at the time. To try to decide which club is therefore more successful by ranking Top Level and Second Level flags is tedious and really does a diservice, especially the arbritary dating system of when the SANFL/WAFL cease to become 'Second Level' -

In your post you've removed 7 SANFL premierships of Port Adelaide because of West Coast & Brisbane joining the VFL - It doesn't really make sense that the '88 SANFL flag doesn't 'rate' the same as the '81 flag purely because of West Coast and Brisbane joining a different competition...

Then there are the further two SANFL flags for Port Adelaide after they joined the AFL -


It should just be said that

Port Adelaide have 1 AFL flag / 36 SANFL flags

Footscray have 0 AFL flags / 10 VFA flags

Essendon 16 AFL flags / 4 VFA flags

etc etc -


and then that's just how it is - There shouldn't be a ladder or a table to rank this - rather just a list of recording who won what and when...
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Exactly.

A 'ladder' or 'table' is an instrument to show or measure something. In this case, there is nothing to be measured.
 
radiojake said:
I don't think you really need to the whole 'table' thing - It gets messy and it's an unneccesary dick measuring contest

Each club should just celebrate the flags they won in the competitions they were competing in at the time. To try to decide which club is therefore more successful by ranking Top Level and Second Level flags is tedious and really does a diservice, especially the arbritary dating system of when the SANFL/WAFL cease to become 'Second Level' -

In your post you've removed 7 SANFL premierships of Port Adelaide because of West Coast & Brisbane joining the VFL - It doesn't really make sense that the '88 SANFL flag doesn't 'rate' the same as the '81 flag purely because of West Coast and Brisbane joining a different competition...

Then there are the further two SANFL flags for Port Adelaide after they joined the AFL -


It should just be said that

Port Adelaide have 1 AFL flag / 36 SANFL flags

Footscray have 0 AFL flags / 10 VFA flags

Essendon 16 AFL flags / 4 VFA flags

etc etc -


and then that's just how it is - There shouldn't be a ladder or a table to rank this - rather just a list of recording who won what and when...
Click to expand...
This was just a cut and paste from another post of mine from another thread discussing rankings.
 
radiojake said:
I don't think you really need to the whole 'table' thing - It gets messy and it's an unneccesary dick measuring contest

Each club should just celebrate the flags they won in the competitions they were competing in at the time. To try to decide which club is therefore more successful by ranking Top Level and Second Level flags is tedious and really does a diservice, especially the arbritary dating system of when the SANFL/WAFL cease to become 'Second Level' -

In your post you've removed 7 SANFL premierships of Port Adelaide because of West Coast & Brisbane joining the VFL - It doesn't really make sense that the '88 SANFL flag doesn't 'rate' the same as the '81 flag purely because of West Coast and Brisbane joining a different competition...

Then there are the further two SANFL flags for Port Adelaide after they joined the AFL -


It should just be said that

Port Adelaide have 1 AFL flag / 36 SANFL flags

Footscray have 0 AFL flags / 10 VFA flags

Essendon 16 AFL flags / 4 VFA flags

etc etc -


and then that's just how it is - There shouldn't be a ladder or a table to rank this - rather just a list of recording who won what and when...
Click to expand...

Footascray 0 afl
Essendon 16 afl?
howsa you worka that out?
 

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I guess Geelong have the same question to ask regarding their recent VFL flag

had Port Adelaide defeated Norwood today (thankfully not) it would have presented a similar question...


It doesn't help with the VFA being rebranded VFL, but I would be of the opinion that it was Footscray's 10th VFA/L flag...
It's the 10th time they've won that competition...

whether it's their senior team or not, does that change it?
 
I always thought your club premierships only count for what the first team wins. So with the Bulldogs first team competing in the AFL, only the premierships won by them would count. So even though the Bulldogs have won the VFL flag, it was won by their reserves team which wouldn't count towards their total if you know what I mean.
 
Roylion said:
Is Footscray's win in the VFL today the club's 11th senior premiership? Even though it wasn't technically won by their "senior" team?

Do Footscray now have 10 VFA-VFL premierships (nine before 1924 and their 10th in 2014) AND one VFL-AFL premiership (1954)?
Click to expand...
I can't see how you can call it a senior premiership.
 
LennyStarkiller said:
I always thought your club premierships only count for what the first team wins. So with the Bulldogs first team competing in the AFL, only the premierships won by them would count. So even though the Bulldogs have won the VFL flag, it was won by their reserves team which wouldn't count towards their total if you know what I mean.
Click to expand...
There is no "count", there is no "total".

Footscray FC won a premiership today, but it was not a VFL/AFL senior premiership.

I don't know why we struggle to get our heads around this concept so much. If you follow a local footy club which can have up to four or five teams, and can change leagues from time to time, this is never an issue.
 
SJ said:
There is no "count", there is no "total".

Footscray FC won a premiership today, but it was not a VFL/AFL senior premiership.

I don't know why we struggle to get our heads around this concept so much. If you follow a local footy club which can have up to four or five teams, and can change leagues from time to time, this is never an issue.
Click to expand...
I agree with you. I was just trying to say that the VFA/VFL flags won by the Bulldogs before they joined the VFL/AFL are not the same as the VFL flag they won today because their reserves team won it.
 
LennyStarkiller said:
I agree with you. I was just trying to say that the VFA/VFL flags won by the Bulldogs before they joined the VFL/AFL are not the same as the VFL flag they won today because their reserves team won it.
Click to expand...
Yes, unfortunately the line between the VFA/VFL and VFL/AFL reserves now does not exist. I guess they need to be lumped under the same bracket following the 'merger'.
 
SJ said:
Yes, unfortunately the line between the VFA/VFL and VFL/AFL reserves now does not exist. I guess they need to be lumped under the same bracket following the 'merger'.
Click to expand...
It's unfortunate now that one clubs pursuit for a senior flag is another teams pursuit for a reserves flag who are competing in the same competition.
 
LennyStarkiller said:
I agree with you. I was just trying to say that the VFA/VFL flags won by the Bulldogs before they joined the VFL/AFL are not the same as the VFL flag they won today because their reserves team won it.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with you on that basis..

I'm not big on the history of the VFA as I didn't grow up here... but if one contends that the VFA/VFL is one continious competition, then today Footscray won that competition for the 10th time -

The fact that today their 2nds won the competition is irrelevant, in my opinion, to the fact that Footscray Football Club has 10 VFA/VFL flags in their club rooms...

I contend that had Port Adelaide won today, it would've been their 37th SANFL flag, as it would've been the 37th time they won that competition.. The fact that it was their 2nds, I don't believe, really matters...

as it was.. Norwood won their 30th flag instead :D




** by the way, my above opinion does not automatically ignore issues of whether or not there is full equity with AFL teams having reserve teams in competitions where there are amatuer/semi-pro clubs involved....
 

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Roylion said:
Is Footscray's win in the VFL today the club's 11th senior premiership? Even though it wasn't technically won by their "senior" team?

Do Footscray now have 10 VFA-VFL premierships (nine before 1924 and their 10th in 2014) AND one VFL-AFL premiership (1954)?
Click to expand...

yes to your 2nd part
 
Roylion said:
Is Footscray's win in the VFL today the club's 11th senior premiership? Even though it wasn't technically won by their "senior" team?

Do Footscray now have 10 VFA-VFL premierships (nine before 1924 and their 10th in 2014) AND one VFL-AFL premiership (1954)?
Click to expand...
Don't see problem as they're not called the western bulldogs there is only one senior Footascray team
 
Bunk Moreland said:
There's no cups for the VFA flags, apparently the players were all given commemorative caps for winning, there's a couple of them on display.
Click to expand...


Selfish pricks. Should have given them to the auskick kids like everyone else
 
Roylion said:
Aren't the Western Bulldogs in the AFL officially the Footscray Football Club?
Click to expand...


Yep. The WB is only a trading name.

Some people don't seem to understand this and think the Western Bulldogs just popped out of mid-air in the mid 90's.
 
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