VFL Grand Final - Footscray vs Box Hill Hawks @ Etihad

[Modified Dog]

Calling the game on radio today (3WBC) we were left in no doubt that resting Cyril was a big (but no the only) factor in Box Hill losing. With him being on the bench and Luke Andrews being injured in the first term, the Hawks players just started to 'blow up' from being run into the ground.

Players like Litherland came the bench area midway during the final term to find no-one who could take their place, due to being stuffed/injured themselves or a dejected Cyril watching on know he could do something, but can't. In fact, an injured Iles started the final quarter in the forward pocket.


This is NOT the only time Clarkson has screwed Box Hill in the VFL finals. Some of you may recall in 2011 when Hawthorn rested 8 players for their final round match against Gold Coast. Due to that and injuries, Box Hill had to go into a VFL elimination final against Werribee making THIRTEEN CHANGES!

Will this hurt/damage/end the Box Hill - Hawthorn alignment? No.

Why? Box Hill were never a strong VFA club (unlike Port Melb who had the pokies and supporters base to tell North to F*** Off).

The whole 'best alignment in the VFL' thing is a sham. Box Hill were stuffed in 2000. Financially were not looking great and had few supporters, thus 'taken over' by Hawthorn. In the last 15 seasons, they have lost their jumper, their nickname and control of their club (9 board members = 5 Hawthorn and 4 Box Hill).

Box Hill's chances of winning the VFL Grand Final were also dealt a severe blow when the Hawks withdrew Ben McEvoy and Brad Sewell from the match at the 11th hour as a precaution… Purely on the off chance they're selected for this week's game. And there's every chance they're not playing this week. No better than 50/50. More likely they're the emergencies.

BUT… At the end of the day, the Box Hill Hawks are the Hawthorn reserves. The ONLY reason they exist is to prepare our 2nd stringers for possible games in the 1sts.

End of f**king story….

That's what the VFL is…. It's a reserves competition for the AFL sides… There's also a few stand-alone sides and they serve as a chance for footballers to play at the highest possible level (and give some overlooked players the chance to get picked up by AFL teams in the rookie draft)

I feel for the Box Hill people who worked hard to get there, but everyone else who has temporarily lost their brain and lost sight of what the VFL is really about and has tried to criticise Hawthorn for managing their reserve players for this week's AFL GRAND FINAL….. well, they can can suck my balls. They are a bunch of idiots. If their club was in the same situation as Hawthorn this week (and did the same thing as us), they'd be saying the complete opposite.

……."The integrity of the VFL competition…" w a n k w a n k w a n k
….^^^


Pffft. Give me a f***** break!

 

[threenewpadlocks]

BUT… At the end of the day, the Box Hill Hawks are the Hawthorn reserves.
That's what the VFL is…. It's a reserves competition for the AFL sides…

Neither of these statements are true.

If the Box Hill Hawks are the Hawthorn Reserves, why do they run a development side?"
The VFL sure aint as hell a reserves competition for Port, Willy, Bendigo, Frankston etc. etc. And it sure aint as hell a reserves comp for players like Sam Iles who tried to play through an injury in his grand final, what he'd worked toward the whole season, only to see his fit teammate stay on the bench for the entire last quarer.

You give us a ******* break.

 

[ManOfClay]

BUT… At the end of the day, the Box Hill Hawks are the Hawthorn reserves. The ONLY reason they exist is to prepare our 2nd stringers for possible games in the 1sts.

End of f**king story….

That's what the VFL is…. It's a reserves competition for the AFL sides… There's also a few stand-alone sides and they serve as a chance for footballers to play at the highest possible level (and give some overlooked players the chance to get picked up by AFL teams in the rookie draft)

I feel for the Box Hill people who worked hard to get there, but everyone else who has temporarily lost their brain and lost sight of what the VFL is really about

Your whole post was unadulterated s**t. I'll address some key points though.

1. Box Hill are a football club whose aim is to win their competition as football. Whether they be the mustangs or the bastardised hawks it doesn't matter. They train separately to hawthorn, they have their own life members, their own supporters.

2. The VFL was not created to be a reserves competition for the AFL sides. It is the highest standard of football in the state of victoria, with AFL fringe players playing there because they have nowhere else.

3. You don't really feel for Box Hill people at all. They are not there to suck the dick of hawthorn flogs like you.

Box Hill people flogged themselves silly to get to the point they reached. Unfortunately it wasn't enough, and that wasn't helped by them being forced to be a hawthorn puppet due to the alignment.

 

[ManOfClay]

BUT… At the end of the day, the Box Hill Hawks are the Hawthorn reserves. The ONLY reason they exist is to prepare our 2nd stringers for possible games in the 1sts.

End of f**king story….

That's what the VFL is…. It's a reserves competition for the AFL sides… There's also a few stand-alone sides and they serve as a chance for footballers to play at the highest possible level (and give some overlooked players the chance to get picked up by AFL teams in the rookie draft)

I feel for the Box Hill people who worked hard to get there, but everyone else who has temporarily lost their brain and lost sight of what the VFL is really about

Your whole post was unadulterated s**t. I'll address some key points though.

1. Box Hill are a football club whose aim is to win their competition as football. Whether they be the mustangs or the bastardised hawks it doesn't matter. They train separately to hawthorn, they have their own life members, their own supporters.

2. The VFL was not created to be a reserves competition for the AFL sides. It is the highest standard of football in the state of victoria, with AFL fringe players playing there because they have nowhere else.

3. You don't really feel for Box Hill people at all. They are not there to suck the dick of hawthorn flogs like you.

Box Hill people flogged themselves silly to get to the point they reached. Unfortunately it wasn't enough, and that wasn't helped by them being forced to be a hawthorn puppet due to the alignment.

 

[Modified Dog]

Neither of these statements are true.

If the Box Hill Hawks are the Hawthorn Reserves, why do they run a development side?"
The VFL sure aint as hell a reserves competition for Port, Willy, Bendigo, Frankston etc. etc. And it sure aint as hell a reserves comp for players like Sam Iles who tried to play through an injury in his grand final, what he'd worked toward the whole season, only to see his fit teammate stay on the bench for the entire last quarer.

You give us a ******* break.

For as long I have followed the footy, the Hawks have had a reserve team. This has always consisted of young hopefuls doing their apprenticeship and waiting to get their crack at the senior level; also older guys who are on their way down, or guys who never really made it, but found their level in the reserve grade, guys like Sam Iles.

If you want to pretend the Box Hill Hawks are something other than the Hawthorn reserves, that's your prerogative. I actually don't give a rat's arse what you or anyone else think about it. I just laugh at people who think we should've thrown Cyril out there in the last quarter and gone against our pre-match planning for his game time and overtaxed him after a 3 month absence. The purpose was to give him a tune-up for a possible GF recall - not to win the VFL flag and flatten him in the process.

Box Hill senior players are free to play for other clubs if they so desire. My impression is that many of the guys like it there and see it as a good pathway and good club to play for.

Hawthorn will continue to do what it thinks is best in their quest to win the AFL premiership.

Idiots will continue to piss and moan and try to put s**t on Hawthorn.

 

[Modified Dog]

Your whole post was unadulterated s**t. I'll address some key points though.

1. Box Hill are a football club whose aim is to win their competition as football. Whether they be the mustangs or the bastardised hawks it doesn't matter. They train separately to hawthorn, they have their own life members, their own supporters.

2. The VFL was not created to be a reserves competition for the AFL sides. It is the highest standard of football in the state of victoria, with AFL fringe players playing there because they have nowhere else.

3. You don't really feel for Box Hill people at all. They are not there to suck the dick of hawthorn flogs like you.

Box Hill people flogged themselves silly to get to the point they reached. Unfortunately it wasn't enough, and that wasn't helped by them being forced to be a hawthorn puppet due to the alignment.

If Box Hill weren't aligned with Hawthorn, they wouldn't even be in the VFL, ya peanut…

If the good folks of Box Hill don't wish to be aligned with Hawthorn, they can take their club in another direction, go it alone, play in another comp. Whatever. Hawthorn will find another suburban oval for our reserves in the VFL.

Staunch VFL fans like yourself need to remember that AFL clubs use the VFL competition to prepare their reserve players for the big league. End of story. If you don't like that, then maybe pick another league. The VAFA is pretty good.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

If Box Hill weren't aligned with Hawthorn, they wouldn't even be in the VFL, ya peanut…

If the good folks of Box Hill don't wish to be aligned with Hawthorn, they can take their club in another direction, go it alone, play in another comp. Whatever. Hawthorn will find another suburban oval for our reserves in the VFL.

Staunch VFL fans like yourself need to remember that AFL clubs use the VFL competition to prepare their reserve players for the big league. End of story. If you don't like that, then maybe pick another league. The VAFA is pretty good.

I'm sure the old Mustangs supporters and the non-AFL players don't share that view.

 

[JUBJUB]

well, they can can suck my balls.

 

[Prudster]

I'm sure the old Mustangs supporters and the non-AFL players don't share that view.

I wonder how they would feel if Hawthorn fielded a standalone team and BH got kicked out of the VFL, or weren't able to compete and went broke.

Again, it's easy to come up with problems, but the solutions aren't so easy.

 

[ManOfClay]

I laugh at being called a staunch vfl supporter. Never seen a game live or on TV. I casually follow it because of footscray.

The vfl is a state league with reserves afl players permitted to play in it. Box hill needed the funds from hawthorn, hence the alignment. They were not created to be hawthorn junior.

The vfl is it's own competition, much like my native sanfl is

 

[ManOfClay]

I wonder how they would feel if Hawthorn fielded a standalone team and BH got kicked out of the VFL, or weren't able to compete and went broke.

Again, it's easy to come up with problems, but the solutions aren't so easy.

That's all well and good but the attitude box hill was created for hawthorn is just wrong.

 

[WWSD]

I wish we had a standalone team in the VFL.

 

[Prudster]

That's all well and good but the attitude box hill was created for hawthorn is just wrong.

And the only reason BH is competitive, financially viable, and in all likelihood still in the VFL competition, is because Hawthorn are aligned with them. If there was a true reserves competition, most, if not all of the VFL teams would be in a fair bit of trouble.

 

[pazza]

For as long I have followed the footy, the Hawks have had a reserve team. This has always consisted of young hopefuls doing their apprenticeship and waiting to get their crack at the senior level; also older guys who are on their way down, or guys who never really made it, but found their level in the reserve grade, guys like Sam Iles.

If you want to pretend the Box Hill Hawks are something other than the Hawthorn reserves, that's your prerogative. I actually don't give a rat's arse what you or anyone else think about it. I just laugh at people who think we should've thrown Cyril out there in the last quarter and gone against our pre-match planning for his game time and overtaxed him after a 3 month absence. The purpose was to give him a tune-up for a possible GF recall - not to win the VFL flag and flatten him in the process.

Box Hill senior players are free to play for other clubs if they so desire. My impression is that many of the guys like it there and see it as a good pathway and good club to play for.

Hawthorn will continue to do what it thinks is best in their quest to win the AFL premiership.

Idiots will continue to piss and moan and try to put s**t on Hawthorn.

Mate.

A premiership is a premiership. Doesn't matter where or who.

For the Box Hill listed players out there, they wanted back-to-back flags. And for much of the match were right there in amongst it.

Same for the Hawthorn youngsters like Hallahan and Litherland.

By not using Rioli, even in a forward pocket, has cost those kids a flag. Take a while to get over that regret.

 

[Modified Dog]

Mate.

A premiership is a premiership. Doesn't matter where or who.

For the Box Hill listed players out there, they wanted back-to-back flags. And for much of the match were right there in amongst it.

Same for the Hawthorn youngsters like Hallahan and Litherland.

By not using Rioli, even in a forward pocket, has cost those kids a flag. Take a while to get over that regret.

Yep, no question they would've been disappointed to run out of players at the end there and lose the Grand Final, but that's part and parcel of VFL football. By it's very nature, the VFL is a compromised competition and if some people can't recognise that, they must be morons. Like I said already, if other AFL clubs were in the same position as Hawthorn with both seniors and reserves in the Grand Finals, they would've done exactly the same thing.

I also reckon if Cyril had been brought on in the final quarter and been the hero and kicked a couple of goals and set up the winning goal for a team-mate, there would probably be the same people bitching and moaning about the integrity of the VFL and how Hawthorn had cheated the system by playing him - the same as one week earlier when Ben McEvoy was given the clearance to play by the VFL, who rightfully decided that Box Hill wasn't stacking their team - that McEvoy was our reserve ruckman (on the outer, trying to get back in the AFL side) and he'd played 5 VFL games, just one short of the required 6.

People just love to whinge about Hawthorn. They can all get f**ked.

 

[pazza]

Yep, no question they would've been disappointed to run out of players at the end there and lose the Grand Final, but that's part and parcel of VFL football. By it's very nature, the VFL is a compromised competition and if some people can't recognise that, they must be morons.

I also reckon if Cyril had been brought on and been the hero and kicked a couple of goals and set up the winning goal for a team-mate, there would probably be the same people bitching and moaning about the integrity of the VFL and how Hawthorn had cheated the system by playing him - the same as one week earlier when Ben McEvoy was given the clearance to play by the VFL, who rightfully decided Box Hill wasn't stacking their team - that McEvoy was our reserve ruckman (on the outer, trying to get back in the AFL side) and he'd played 5 VFL games, just one short of the required 6.

People just love to whinge about Hawthorn. They can all get f**ked.

I think it was fine to play Rioli no doubt. It was within the rules and I think even Footscray fans would appreciate that. McEvoy's game the week before wasn't within the rules and was roundly condemned and yet he should have played Sunday as poor Luke Lowden looked dead by 3/4 time rucking alone. Was shocked not to see McEvoy out there to be perfectly honest.

Still you play grand finals to win premierships.
I would hope that if Essendon was in the same position in 12 months time, it would go out to win and if that means taking risks in selection, so be it.

And my reasoning is quite simple. Success begats success. It might take a year or a few years, but, a premiership win even at that level, does wonders for the confidence of those involved.

Best example -Essendon 1992-93. The kids who played under Pagan in 1992 (including Hird and Mercuri) lapped it up. 12 months later we saw the result.

 

[PenAndPaper]

People are getting upset that our aligned club actually help our AFL club instead of being a hindrance like a lot of others can be.

 

[Modified Dog]

I think it was fine to play Rioli no doubt. It was within the rules and I think even Footscray fans would appreciate that.

No, they didn't. They booed him every time he went near the ball. (Which admittedly, wasn't that often )

McEvoy's game the week before wasn't within the rules and was roundly condemned

As I understand it, the rules also allow the VFL to use their discretion. In the end, the right decision was made and common sense prevailed.

The people who condemned the decision and pointed to the "rules" need to have a think about why the rule is there instead of bleating and acting like the Hawks were trying to cheat.

and yet he should have played Sunday as poor Luke Lowden looked dead by 3/4 time rucking alone. Was shocked not to see McEvoy out there to be perfectly honest.

If Hawthorn are thinking of replacing Ceglar with McEvoy for this weekend's AFL GRAND FINAL then why would they risk injury to McEvoy by playing him in the VFL Grand Final and give him only the 6 days to recover? Surely he will better this weekend having had the last weekend off… ??? You don't need to be an AFL coach on a million a year to make that conservative judgment call. It's just more common sense.

Still you play grand finals to win premierships.
I would hope that if Essendon was in the same position in 12 months time, it would go out to win and if that means taking risks in selection, so be it.

Maybe that's the difference between our clubs. Hawthorn looks after their players and makes conservative decisions when it comes to their health and fitness, whereas the Bombers go for broke and do whatever it takes.

It's one thing I've noticed about Clarkson in the last couple of years. We haven't rushed players back from injury. Players are given time to heal properly, or to freshen up and overcome niggles. He hasn't panicked when missing key players, but shown faith in every player at his disposal.

 

[ManOfClay]

So everyone who disagrees with your narrow opinion is a moron AND you get offended by us booing Cyril?

Ok mete

 

[THEHUTCH]

Your whole post was unadulterated s**t. I'll address some key points though.

1. Box Hill are a football club whose aim is to win their competition as football. Whether they be the mustangs or the bastardised hawks it doesn't matter. They train separately to hawthorn, they have their own life members, their own supporters.

2. The VFL was not created to be a reserves competition for the AFL sides. It is the highest standard of football in the state of victoria, with AFL fringe players playing there because they have nowhere else.

3. You don't really feel for Box Hill people at all. They are not there to suck the dick of hawthorn flogs like you.

Box Hill people flogged themselves silly to get to the point they reached. Unfortunately it wasn't enough, and that wasn't helped by them being forced to be a hawthorn puppet due to the alignment.

The Bulldogs should be happy that Hawthorn gifted you a premiership. Just looking at the Footscray side it's no wonder your AFL side struggles, how many early picks have you wasted on dud forwards all running around in the VFL.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

The Bulldogs should be happy that Hawthorn gifted you a premiership. Just looking at the Footscray side it's no wonder your AFL side struggles, how many early picks have you wasted on dud forwards all running around in the VFL.

Speaking of being gifted premierships...

How many early picks? 1. Grant - Pick 5.

The other forwards were Jones (32), Dickson (57) Honeychurch (60), Tutt (31), Campbell (rookie) and Hayes (VFL listed). I'd suggest you actually didn't look at the Footscray side.

 

[THEHUTCH]

Speaking of being gifted premierships...

How many early picks? 1. Grant - Pick 5.

The other forwards were Jones (32), Dickson (57) Honeychurch (60), Tutt (31), Campbell (rookie) and Hayes (VFL listed). I'd suggest you actually didn't look at the Footscray side.

Cordy, Jones Grant all picked up as key forwards early and all in the VFL.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Cordy, Jones Grant all picked up as key forwards early and all in the VFL.

Cordy was recruited as a ruckman and began his AFL career as a defender. If you're not going to do your research, don't waste your time arguing.

Jones was selected with Pick 32. Hardly an early pick.

 

[THEHUTCH]

Cordy was recruited as a ruckman and began his AFL career as a defender. If you're not going to do your research, don't waste your time arguing.

Jones was selected with Pick 32. Hardly an early pick.

Pick 32 is a very good pick and he along with Grant should be at least playing enough senior games to not be playing a VFL Grand Final at their age. My god Footscray had 18 listed players plus Ex players Russel and Prismal.

 

[Testekill]

Cordy was recruited as a ruckman and began his AFL career as a defender. If you're not going to do your research, don't waste your time arguing.

Jones was selected with Pick 32. Hardly an early pick.

I wouldn't expect a Sydney supporter to actually know how a lesser team in Victoria functions.