Toast Courageous Strategy

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Augustine

Augustine

Premiership Player
Veteran
Aug 28, 2013
3,250
8,834
AFL Club
North Melbourne
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Arsenal
I'm terribly excited and super scared. I can't believe what we're doing this trade period. We're trying to win a flag. We're not in 'rebuild mode' or 'development mode', we're in 'let's try to win a flag mode'. I know, pretty ****ed up hey? Shouldn't we be "playing the kids", getting games into guys with 'upside' blah blah blah. The club shouldn't be as arrogant as Vossy at Brisbane, why on earth are we 'toping up' (what a dirty word that has become) to try to win a flag.

Isn't that the whole point, to win the flag?!?

We're not going all in, not by any stretch of the imagination. We haven't even traded any drafts picks. We have heaps of young players with good potential (McDonald, Mullett, Wood, Brown, Turner, Dumont, Garner, McKensie, Atley, plus three more draftees).

But there's no denying it we're recruiting to try to win a flag. This is such a ridiculously ballsy thing to do in the current AFL climate. There is another thread on here criticising of the club for this strategy not wishing history to repeat from the mid 2000s. I can understand that sentiment. There are many examples where 'topping up' has failed. Just in the last couple of seasons there was Carlton. Of course they were hung drawn and quartered for 'overestimating' their position on the premiership clock. But equally, there's Hawthorn. After years of developing players in the draft they threw the dice and traded for Shaun Burgoyne and Brian Lake and Josh Gibson and Ben McEvoy...

I know it's a risk. I know Carlton and others embarrassed themselves. I know that it's SAFER to be locked in an eternal perpetuation of 'development'. If Brad can get in front of the microphones after a loss and pull out 'a good lesson was learnt for our young kids' or 'we're one of the youngest teams in the comp', his job is damn well safer. But I don't care about safety.

I don't want to see us play figurative kick to kick in the back line, I want to see us kick it long to a contest and take the game on with run and carry.

It is NOT better to be s**t but young and 'full of potential', than to be old but actually good. I'm glad the club is taking this bold, courageous strategy, in fact I'd be annoyed if we weren't.
 
Great point, the old cliche' but it's a bit of now or never.

As much as he's not slowing down, it really is becoming now or never for Boomer. Couple that with Wells, Petrie and Dal Santo.

It's game on boys, time to win a flag and guess bloody what for all you fans out there, I've got a bloody good feeling we're gonna do it.
 
I think the fact that the mature age players we are looking at to top up our list are going to come as free agents which takes away a lot of the risk as we will not have to give up draft picks compared to 07. This will allow us to continue to develop the side from the draft or bring in other young players such as O'Rourke.

Also as stated above Boomer, Petrie and NDS don't have long left and they are our key leaders driving this team to a premiership.
 

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Can't understand the risk at all; as it stands there isn't a player (Levi aside) that hasn't re-signed with the club, so the salary cap aspect is moot.
So literally all Higgins and Waite would be taking is a spot on the list, that would be filled by some post pick 50 young kid.

I love it. Ballsy move, but if both come off, our team is significantly better.
 
There is no risk while we're not trading picks or kids. The only risk is the risk sticking our necks out for ridicule with the message 'we think we can win it'. That doesn't bother me in the slightest, we should have that mentality.
 
AGC said:
Can't understand the risk at all; as it stands there isn't a player (Levi aside) that hasn't re-signed with the club, so the salary cap aspect is moot.
So literally all Higgins and Waite would be taking is a spot on the list, that would be filled by some post pick 50 young kid.

I love it. Ballsy move, but if both come off, our team is significantly better.
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Absolutely this.

We haven't risked anything, and if we trade for JOR it's for youth anyway.

We still have plenty of quality kids, 3 of our best kids are to come in on a permanent basis in Dumont, Wood and Garner.

This team still has plenty of room to grow.
 
justroyal said:
Do whatever needs to be done to create a dynasty
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Spot on. We need to make sure we don't end up like we did in early 00's after our tilt in the 90's and continue to build for the next 10 years after premiership success.
 
Hawthorn are the prototype for this strategy. They developed their core group of kids together (Lewis, Roughead, Franklin, Rioli, Birchall), kept good leaders around them (Mitchell, Crawford, Hodge, Brown, Osbourne) and then used smart recruiting to fill gaps (Lake, Dew, Burgoyne, Gunston, Hale, Gibson, Guerra). Then they've continued to develop their own draftees since (Breust, Shiels, Stratton, Langford, Hill, Smith etc), who are in a successful environment from day one and thus develop quicker.

Lists are all about balance. Our balance was awful when we topped up under Laidley because we didn't have the quality group of kids, and teams like Melbourne have too many kids and not enough senior leaders.
 
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Well Melbourne did have leaders until they shafted them under the bus and got rid of them.
 
Marksup said:
Great point, the old cliche' but it's a bit of now or never.

As much as he's not slowing down, it really is becoming now or never for Boomer. Couple that with Wells, Petrie and Dal Santo.

It's game on boys, time to win a flag and guess bloody what for all you fans out there, I've got a bloody good feeling we're gonna do it.
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There's a fair bit of mortar to flow under the bridge for us to win a flag IMO. Jacobs needs to tweak his game a touch. Adams has re-signed for 2 more years so he's obviously part of our premiership plans - he just needs a slight re-alignment. McMahon still has a year to go so he just needs some continuity.

I'm bloody excited though. Like a lot of us here I'm just picturing McAvaney say, "Ohhh, Jacobs you beauty. And Higgins again!!!!" followed by, "Fletcher, Harvey, Adams."
 

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Please don't compare this strategy to Hawthorn's. Firstly apart from Lake they traded in guns who were still young. Secondly neither Waite or Higgins would get a game at Hawthorn.

I will be disappointed if we bring in Waite and Higgins while our biggest need a KPD goes unattended. It would be more palatable if Drew played CHB and have a forward line of Brown, Waite, Wood/Black, LT, Turner and Garner/Zeibell/Cunners. Boomer to sub.
 
Now or never.

The strategy is two fold. Have a crack now with the experienced players.

And in 2 years we will have a core of 130-150 game mids and flankers to set up again.

Plus a crap load of cap room for FA. Plus some developing draftees.

If we can be a regular finals team then we get a destination of choice tag.

I actually think Richmond went far too early and we have waited until we had 80-100 gamers before adding the FA.
 
giantroo said:
Spot on. We need to make sure we don't end up like we did in early 00's after our tilt in the 90's and continue to build for the next 10 years after premiership success.
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There is an explicit intention to create "sustained success" (ala Geelong, Hawthorn).
 
Bigeasy said:
Please don't compare this strategy to Hawthorn's. Firstly apart from Lake they traded in guns who were still young. Secondly neither Waite or Higgins would get a game at Hawthorn.
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Not really.

- Burgoyne a gun but 28
- Hale 27 but on the outer at North
- Gibson 26 but not half the player he is now
- Guerra 24 but delisted by two clubs
- Dew 29 and out of AFL footy for 12 months

If Waite turns a GF for us in 10 third quarter minutes then I doubt anyone questions his signing.

Regardless my point was Hawthorn have continued to develop and bring through their own while "topping up". It doesn't have to be one or the other. Free agency reduces the risk even further.
 
Getting players under free agency is a no brainer for me, there really is minimal risk and cost involved. You are not giving up picks or players. Where we need to be smart with now is what we do with our draft picks and with any players we decide to 'put on the table'. If we can pick up a decent ready made player under 26 with our first pick then go for it I say. We have enough young talent on our list that have now been developed or are on their way. The young developing list excuse has been exhausted.
I think we are capable of a flag in the next 2-3 years if luck falls our way. I might get hounded for saying this but small clubs like North haven't the resources and money to have a period of sustained success(7-10years) nowdays ala Geelong, Hawthorn, Swans etc. Financially we are in a similar boat to St.Kilda and the Bulldogs. They had a small window of 4-5 years but blew their chances. If we are to snatch a flag in the next few years then we must be brave with our decision making and take any opportunity if and when presented.
 
Bigeasy said:
Please don't compare this strategy to Hawthorn's. Firstly apart from Lake they traded in guns who were still young. Secondly neither Waite or Higgins would get a game at Hawthorn.

I will be disappointed if we bring in Waite and Higgins while our biggest need a KPD goes unattended. It would be more palatable if Drew played CHB and have a forward line of Brown, Waite, Wood/Black, LT, Turner and Garner/Zeibell/Cunners. Boomer to sub.
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Stop perpetuating the KPD myth. At one point this season we'd lost Hansen, Grima, Delaney, and Tippett, all to injury and by finals we could only get Grima back match fit. Thompson was playing with a broken rib for half the year. We were very unlucky with our KPDs this season but actually have quite excellent KPD depth compared with most teams. Add in Firrito and Waite into the equation too. In my opinion back line is one of our strongest areas.
 
Thewlis Dish said:
Hawthorn are the prototype for this strategy. They developed their core group of kids together (Lewis, Roughead, Franklin, Rioli, Birchall), kept good leaders around them (Mitchell, Crawford, Hodge, Brown, Osbourne) and then used smart recruiting to fill gaps (Lake, Dew, Burgoyne, Gunston, Hale, Gibson, Guerra). Then they've continued to develop their own draftees since (Breust, Shiels, Stratton, Langford, Hill, Smith etc), who are in a successful environment from day one and thus develop quicker.

Lists are all about balance. Our balance was awful when we topped up under Laidley because we didn't have the quality group of kids, and teams like Melbourne have too many kids and not enough senior leaders.
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Top post. I was thinking the exact same thing TD.

We have completely turned over the list in the past 5 years by bringing in youngsters. In fact we hardly traded in any players for a 2-3 year period IIRC. We have now picked up experience in Dal Santo, and are looking to add to that with Waite and Higgins. All the while we still have that core group of 21-25 year olds coming through together.

When we tried to top up with experience in the mid-2000's it was by trying to pinch a GF while we still had Archer, Simpson, Grant, Harvey, Stevens, King, Colbert and the like. Just like Brisbane under Voss who had Black, Brown, Power and Bradshaw.

I like what we are doing. You can't keep rebuilding forever, you need to identify when its your turn to have a crack and just have a crack. We need to remember that we aren't doing this to try and win the 2015 premiership, we are doing this to be in a position to challenge for the next 5-6 premierships.
 
Thewlis Dish said:
Hawthorn are the prototype for this strategy. They developed their core group of kids together (Lewis, Roughead, Franklin, Rioli, Birchall), kept good leaders around them (Mitchell, Crawford, Hodge, Brown, Osbourne) and then used smart recruiting to fill gaps (Lake, Dew, Burgoyne, Gunston, Hale, Gibson, Guerra). Then they've continued to develop their own draftees since (Breust, Shiels, Stratton, Langford, Hill, Smith etc), who are in a successful environment from day one and thus develop quicker.

Lists are all about balance. Our balance was awful when we topped up under Laidley because we didn't have the quality group of kids, and teams like Melbourne have too many kids and not enough senior leaders.
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To the strains of Leonard Cohen (or KD Lang, or Jeff Buckley) singing "Hallelujah" - someone actually gets the structure and demographics of what the football department has been trying to do in a regulated competition these last 6 years - best post I have seen on BF, well done
 
Arthur Cloke said:
I'm bloody excited though. Like a lot of us here I'm just picturing McAvaney say, "Ohhh, Jacobs you beauty. And Higgins again!!!!" followed by, "Fletcher, Harvey, Adams."
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Arfur...you forgot the main name in two years....

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Liam Boy said:
I'm all for trading for needs. But if it costs us Levi, I will cry. I will be unable to watch when we play against whoever picks him up
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I will have to go back and bump my Levi thread from the morning after the Blues loss 2012 and cry a river of tears.

Must sign.
 
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