Opinion Bulldogs Culture and Brendan McCartney discussion thread

[Butane]

That 30% win rate is to high.

The two statistically worst teams since (at least)Fitzroy also played during that time too GC and GWS. And even they both beat us at the end of Macca's first 3 years of rebuilding a built club.

 

[timtamWB]

That 30% win rate is to high.

The two statistically worst teams since (at least)Fitzroy also played during that time too GC and GWS. And even they both beat us at the end of Macca's first 3 years of rebuilding a built club.

GC beat us when they were beating clubs like Adelaide, Collingwood etc. so I don't think that's too bad.

GWS on the other hand, ouch.

 

[black pup]

MACCA. thank god he is gone, 2 idea's none of them any good. PEANUT.

 

[immortalmike]

That 30% win rate is to high.

The two statistically worst teams since (at least)Fitzroy also played during that time too GC and GWS. And even they both beat us at the end of Macca's first 3 years of rebuilding a built club.

That really doesn't mean much. Anything can happen in a one off game. GWS beat Sydney in that time too.

 

[Ant_]

I'm not taking sides in the Malthouse debate, but I will add one thing - he was aided at WCE by a rampant steroid culture overseen by a former Olympic weightlifting coach with an extensive history in that area. He may not have been up to his eyeballs in it like Hird, but no team since has been able to achieve changes in body shape of numerous players over one preseason to that degree, not even the cheating Elliott Blues or the injecting Bombres.

I remember Turley went from stick insect to muscle man in a pre-season

 

[maddog37]

Don't forget Braun and Lamb(?) .

 

[Butane]

That really doesn't mean much. Anything can happen in a one off game. GWS beat Sydney in that time too.

Guessing statistics isn't your strong point?

You just said - 'yeah, nah' and then added a straw man argument.

 

[immortalmike]

Guessing statistics isn't your strong point?

You just said - 'yeah, nah' and then added a straw man argument.

Was more referring to the second part of your post. The 30% comment was all that was needed the digression about GWS and GC was meaningless and a little bit of self-flagellation.

As for statistics not being my strong point thanks for the smug response, but maybe Dannnnnnnnnn can vouch for me on that.

 

[Butane]

Was more referring to the second part of your post. The 30% comment was all that was needed the digression about GWS and GC was meaningless and a little bit of self-flagellation.

You do realise the irony in your meaningless post to point out that you thought my post was meaningless.

And yet, you still called me smug.

 

[immortalmike]

You do realise the irony in your meaningless post to point out that you thought my post was meaningless.

And yet, you still called me smug.

No I said your response was smug. Big difference. I don't know you how would I know if you're smug?

By Joe this place is getting worse than WOOF. I can't be bothered with this s**t.
Taking a little break.
I come here to talk footy and have a bit of fun. It seems both are in short supply when a fairly benign comment sets off personal comments and such bitchy reactions.
I'll catch you guys some time before or after we smash the Tigers.

 

[BEaston]

haha

 

[ivan rassmussen]

I remember Turley went from stick insect to muscle man in a pre-season

McKenna, Jakovich, all of them. Players develop as they get older sure, Murphy and C Grant looked vastly different after 10 years than they did as sticks at the start. But never has an entire team changed their bodies en masse like WCE. Must be the Perth air...!

 

[Unknown Caller]

Brendan McCartney = Matthew Primus
Luke Beveridge = Ken Hinkley

 

[Anja_Nees]

McCartney is looking worse each week. While a lot of what players say should be taken with a grain of salt, a number have made reference to Bev letting them back their instincts. Bev also made it clear he would cater the gameplan to the players he had at his disposal. I suspect where McCartney went wrong was trying to force players to play his way and not adapting to who was available or trusting them to use their natural flair.

The fact Grant, Jong, Dickson, Cordy, Talia and Goodes (who admittedly has been dropped) spent most of last year in the reserves but are all contributing this year is an indictment. We will never know how much of what's happening is down to natural improvement but I recall Jong being tried as a stopper who was axed after letting Dangerfield off the leash only to become one of our most creative mids in no time. Talia was left in the VFL after letting Daniher have too much space and he never returned. Cordy has never played more than three games in a row (partly due to injury) and spent all of his time as a key forward, which he clearly isn't. Then, when he started playing well as a ruck last year he spent the whole time in the VFL while we tried Jones, Redpath and on occasions Austin (ffs) as a relief ruck. Now he's looking like spending time as number one ruck, how much better might he be if he'd spent another 12-15 games second rucking last year?

He wasn't Peter Rohde but I could never understand why so many accepted his cliched crap about 'total football' and 'great people' etc without questioning him. Oddly, when I queried it once, I was told I simply didn't understand his philosophy. It seems that the players didn't either.

I feel bad for him in some ways. I'm sure he had a plan in his head and he never got to see it through, at least in part because senior players turned on him. He'll never get another crack. The reality though was that it seems his gameplan wasn't up to it and part of being the coach is maintaining relationships with the players.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

McCartney is looking worse each week. While a lot of what players say should be taken with a grain of salt, a number have made reference to Bev letting them back their instincts. Bev also made it clear he would cater the gameplan to the players he had at his disposal. I suspect where McCartney went wrong was trying to force players to play his way and not adapting to who was available or trusting them to use their natural flair.

The fact Grant, Jong, Dickson, Cordy, Talia and Goodes (who admittedly has been dropped) spent most of last year in the reserves but are all contributing this year is an indictment. We will never know how much of what's happening is down to natural improvement but I recall Jong being tried as a stopper who was axed after letting Dangerfield off the leash only to become one of our most creative mids in no time. Talia was left in the VFL after letting Daniher have too much space and he never returned

Talia's the one that's the biggest head scratcher. I'm not particularly surprised at his form thus far, because I knew it was how good he was as a player. I simply had no idea why he was playing VFL week after week whilst being fully fit whilst Tom Young/Mark Austin was taking his spot. If you watched his end of 2013 games in detail you could tell he was going to make it, and that was as a raw second year KPD. Maybe the rumours of him and McCartney having a sour relationship was true.

 

[ErnieSigley]

McCartney is looking worse each week. While a lot of what players say should be taken with a grain of salt, a number have made reference to Bev letting them back their instincts. Bev also made it clear he would cater the gameplan to the players he had at his disposal. I suspect where McCartney went wrong was trying to force players to play his way and not adapting to who was available or trusting them to use their natural flair.

The fact Grant, Jong, Dickson, Cordy, Talia and Goodes (who admittedly has been dropped) spent most of last year in the reserves but are all contributing this year is an indictment. We will never know how much of what's happening is down to natural improvement but I recall Jong being tried as a stopper who was axed after letting Dangerfield off the leash only to become one of our most creative mids in no time. Talia was left in the VFL after letting Daniher have too much space and he never returned. Cordy has never played more than three games in a row (partly due to injury) and spent all of his time as a key forward, which he clearly isn't. Then, when he started playing well as a ruck last year he spent the whole time in the VFL while we tried Jones, Redpath and on occasions Austin (ffs) as a relief ruck. Now he's looking like spending time as number one ruck, how much better might he be if he'd spent another 12-15 games second rucking last year?

He wasn't Peter Rohde but I could never understand why so many accepted his cliched crap about 'total football' and 'great people' etc without questioning him. Oddly, when I queried it once, I was told I simply didn't understand his philosophy. It seems that the players didn't either.

I feel bad for him in some ways. I'm sure he had a plan in his head and he never got to see it through, at least in part because senior players turned on him. He'll never get another crack. The reality though was that it seems his gameplan wasn't up to it and part of being the coach is maintaining relationships with the players.

Welcome to 2012 to a few of us. Where have you been?
Warning bells should have been ringing when we saw Murphy being played as a lockdown defender in 2012.

 

[the conch]

Talia's the one that's the biggest head scratcher. I'm not particularly surprised at his form thus far, because I knew it was how good he was as a player. I simply had no idea why he was playing VFL week after week whilst being fully fit whilst Tom Young/Mark Austin was taking his spot. If you watched his end of 2013 games in detail you could tell he was going to make it, and that was as a raw second year KPD. Maybe the rumours of him and McCartney having a sour relationship was true.

That's what pissed me with BM. The seemingly playing favourites and lack of faith in developing players..
O And other things.

 

[Bulldogsnm1]

Welcome to 2012 to a few of us. Where have been you been?
Warning bells should have been ringing when we saw Murphy being played as a lockdown defender in 2012.

Had a re-look at this thread I posted in July 2012, don't think I was a long way off the mark.

13 weeks in - Can Brendan McCartney coach?
Discussion in 'Western Bulldogs' started by Bulldogsnm1, Jul 2, 2012.

 

[Beasley]

McCartney is looking worse each week. While a lot of what players say should be taken with a grain of salt, a number have made reference to Bev letting them back their instincts. Bev also made it clear he would cater the gameplan to the players he had at his disposal. I suspect where McCartney went wrong was trying to force players to play his way and not adapting to who was available or trusting them to use their natural flair.

The fact Grant, Jong, Dickson, Cordy, Talia and Goodes (who admittedly has been dropped) spent most of last year in the reserves but are all contributing this year is an indictment. We will never know how much of what's happening is down to natural improvement but I recall Jong being tried as a stopper who was axed after letting Dangerfield off the leash only to become one of our most creative mids in no time. Talia was left in the VFL after letting Daniher have too much space and he never returned. Cordy has never played more than three games in a row (partly due to injury) and spent all of his time as a key forward, which he clearly isn't. Then, when he started playing well as a ruck last year he spent the whole time in the VFL while we tried Jones, Redpath and on occasions Austin (ffs) as a relief ruck. Now he's looking like spending time as number one ruck, how much better might he be if he'd spent another 12-15 games second rucking last year?

He wasn't Peter Rohde but I could never understand why so many accepted his cliched crap about 'total football' and 'great people' etc without questioning him. Oddly, when I queried it once, I was told I simply didn't understand his philosophy. It seems that the players didn't either.

I feel bad for him in some ways. I'm sure he had a plan in his head and he never got to see it through, at least in part because senior players turned on him. He'll never get another crack. The reality though was that it seems his gameplan wasn't up to it and part of being the coach is maintaining relationships with the players.

Spot on with this post.

 

[paul scholes]

I think the recruiting alarm bells chimed early with the attempt to recruit Matty Bate . I think we offered pick 30 odd which thankfully they rejected ( we got Talia with that pick)
The Gumbleton contract was another bullet dodged, as was Levi Casboult( they threw big money )
Tom Lonergan was also bordering on desperation as well. Look my view is well documented, as I think he's a development type coach, but just didn't have the coaching smarts for the top level. I also reckon he went to far down the contested footballer road, and not enough of the skilled , running type. In the end everybody was disgruntled and the change had to happen

 

[stefoid]

I think the recruiting alarm bells chimed early with the attempt to recruit Matty Bate . I think we offered pick 30 odd which thankfully they rejected ( we got Talia with that pick)
The Gumbleton contract was another bullet dodged, as was Levi Casboult( they threw big money )
Tom Lonergan was also bordering on desperation as well. Look my view is well documented, as I think he's a development type coach, but just didn't have the coaching smarts for the top level. I also reckon he went to far down the contested footballer road, and not enough of the skilled , running type. In the end everybody was disgruntled and the change had to happen

Bate was delisted and trained with us but we didnt want him.

 

[yebiga]

black or white ; good or bad
Right or wrong ; Bev good, macca bad

This type of binary reduction negates Its subject matter to the slimest veneer of mind numbing cheer leading garbage.

Whatever, go for it!

 

[fronkalicious]

The media keep going on about how McCartney instilled the contested and defensive side of our game, and beverdige has brought the attacking flair. Contested footy? Yep, McCartney did a great job with that. Defensive game???? Couldn't be further from the truth. We were the worst defensive side in the league under his watch. Misfiled D was awful and the back 6 were left one out and without any structures or systems to help them. And then there's talia.

I am eternally grateful for the "crack in" mentality he instilled though (as unpopular as that may be). I recall plough comparing our young list to Gold Coast, saying their best 4 young mids (swallow, omeara, Bennell, martin) smashed ours (Libba, Wallis, smith, Dal) through sheer class. Hard to use those classy skills if you can't get in and get it. Rocket would kill for more guys like our 4 right now.

 

[_Mike_]

The media keep going on about how McCartney instilled the contested and defensive side of our game

Interesting

In comparison between the first 4 rounds this year, vs 2014

2014 WDL 2-0-2 Points For - 333 Points Against -398
2015 WDL 3-0-1 Points For - 364 Points Against -348

I'll be interested in seeing where we are at the 1/2 way mark of the season in terms of our defense. The game plans were chalk and cheese in comparison with Bev's being a lot more focused on a free flowing and zoning game, similar to Eades in many aspects.

 

[Butane]

Interesting

In comparison between the first 4 rounds this year, vs 2014

2014 WDL 2-0-2 Points For - 333 Points Against -398
2015 WDL 3-0-1 Points For - 364 Points Against -348

I'll be interested in seeing where we are at the 1/2 way mark of the season in terms of our defense. The game plans were chalk and cheese in comparison with Bev's being a lot more focused on a free flowing and zoning game, similar to Eades in many aspects.

Does help having Beveridge from the Hawks and that means having Hawks IP.